Old 11-20-2019, 07:55 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by bFooz View Post
100+ track numbers are problematic:

Since track numbers in Reaper with the usage of folders and separator track layouts does not guarantee anything, I'd suggest making them smaller so 3 digits can fit.
3 digits should fit, just. What OS are you on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
And then don't forget some working composers have a 4-digit track count in their projects.
Don't forget the existence of other themes, they are an implicit part of Reaper's UI solution, be it for specific use cases or accessibility or those people who run Reaper on their fridge's touchscreen.

That said, I think it might be possible to make the track number width really easy to mod, I'll have a look at that when I have more time.

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Originally Posted by bFooz View Post
The solution for better visibility could be just to move the selection strip to the right, closer to the middle of the screen and to the user's eyes, and to make it bigger. You have already made space for it there. But it could be even wider than this. Could be also in the color of the track as I've seen in some other theme.

By moving this strip away from the left, you could gain some visual space for track numebers.

EDIT: Ok, that space is for meters. But it could be rearranged or put the selection strip all the way to the right of the track panel. And there could be even two, one on the very left and one on the very right.
I would literally be unable to do any of these suggestions, other than making the selection strip bigger, which seems excessive to me. Pleas try to bare in mind that I am stretching a theming system to its limits here, and it often fights back, its not a ground-up design.

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Originally Posted by bFooz View Post
arguments for fixed buttons:

- both buttons are at the different position for different heights, I don't know where to quickly find them.
- hard to see boundaries of tracks
- there is space for them to stay next to each other
- no other button in the track panel changes its position, just these 2 buttons
Some good arguments, and nothing I disagree with necessarily. The whole swapping from horizontal to vertical thing just looks weird. I totally agree. Here are the counter arguments:

- Goal one, from extensive user request, was to never have the M/S buttons disappear like they did on V5 / other themes.
- Goal two, also from extensive user request, was to have them stay in 'roughly the same area' on a macro level. In this case, that is 'always next to the meter, no matter what, even if the meter is the other side'.
- When space gets small, something has to give. Things have to resize, move or disappear. Whichever I do is going to be in some way irksome. Doing 'shrink the meter, pull the solo button up' does indeed look weird, but on a pragmatic level it is the solution that hides the least amount of functionality, because a tiny meter still has some function.

Ideally I would be able to design without having to compromise one thing I don't like to solve another thing I don't like. Best I can do is to compromise one of them in one theme, and the other in the next theme. Much of this theme is about flipping the compromises made in the V5 theme. I'd love to be able to do the kind of thing I would in a ground-up design, like collapsing controls into clusters when space is small, but this is at its heart just a very glorified skinning task.

To be clear, we are waaaaaaayyyy past the point that any of these fundamentals are going to change. Sorry. Please test the script!
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Old 11-20-2019, 08:56 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
Don't forget the existence of other themes, they are an implicit part of Reaper's UI solution, be it for specific use cases or accessibility or those people who run Reaper on their fridge's touchscreen.
No other DAW requires you to change the theme to be able to see track numbers clearly. And this is supposed to be the DEFAULT theme, right? So we should not be discussing visibility of track numbers, that should just work and always be easily readable/visible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
That said, I think it might be possible to make the track number width really easy to mod, I'll have a look at that when I have more time.



(But wait, does that mean automatic adjustment of the track number area when a new digit appear? If so - wahay! If not - blergh.)
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Old 11-20-2019, 09:18 AM   #83
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3 digits should fit, just. What OS are you on?
Win7 x64
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Old 11-20-2019, 09:47 AM   #84
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No other DAW requires you to change the theme to be able to see track numbers clearly.
Why do you think this is somehow a compelling argument? Reaper does things differently, for better or worse. Sometimes worse. This is not news, stating the patently obvious as if you were the only one to notice it is not some special gift its just ...bizarre and pointless. I can't do anything about it, and neither can you. I can do my best with the situation presented, and you can help. Please do!

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(But wait, does that mean automatic adjustment of the track number area when a new digit appear? If so - wahay! If not - blergh.)
Yes, exactly. I exactly cannot do this. This and a thousand other things that I hide, disguise or compensate for. That you don't know about. That I cannot spend my time educating you about. That I have spent a very long time thinking about, for you to react as if I haven't given them a moment's thought.

It is implicit in the fact that I am here asking for help and feedback that I am certain I make mistakes and need my judgement checked and that anything I do is without value unless it serves the users. So, by that same token, if I give you a clear 'no', its for a reason, and you don't need to understand that reason for it to be valid.
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Old 11-20-2019, 09:48 AM   #85
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Win7 x64
Oh, hmmm, that should be fine. And was your image or the track number not a screenshot? Because, though far from optimal, they were at least readable.
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Old 11-20-2019, 10:01 AM   #86
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If you people's can take notes of stuff that is hard or impossible to see/read and can't be WALTER'ed or WT'ed, if it is that bad then it does seem to qualify for a BR, not FR Tread, not fully sure myself what is what (rusty)

Good job on the communication! glad to se it (tears) carry on folks.

Oh yeah, if you do, make it as easy as possible for the devs to go, ah yeah, with good arguments case so we get a, fixing!
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Old 11-20-2019, 10:22 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
Oh, hmmm, that should be fine. And was your image or the track number not a screenshot? Because, though far from optimal, they were at least readable.
It was an unedited screenshot.
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Old 11-20-2019, 10:39 AM   #88
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If the benefits of full strength colours do not outweigh this for you, this isn't the theme for you.
.
Shouldn’t a default theme be for everyone, rather than an opinionated solution for a certain set of users? Isn’t the latter what the stash is for?
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Old 11-20-2019, 10:43 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by White Tie View Post

Please try 1.24, hopefully this will be fixed ...?
White Tie,

I have tried the new version of the theme and script, but now I get the following message:

Code:
Default_6.0_theme_adjuster.lua:642: attempt to compare number with nil
Removed the reaper-themeconfig.ini file, but it's not recreated after reopening the latest script. Please advice and Thanks in advance. Ericson

Last edited by Ericson; 11-20-2019 at 11:51 PM.
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Old 11-20-2019, 11:00 AM   #90
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I'm getting this error:

Code:
Default_6.0_theme_adjuster.lua:642: attempt to compare number with nil
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Old 11-20-2019, 11:18 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bFooz View Post
100+ track numbers are problematic:

Since track numbers in Reaper with the usage of folders and separator track layouts does not guarantee anything, I'd suggest making them smaller so 3 digits can fit.

Same here with w10.
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Old 11-20-2019, 01:04 PM   #92
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Hi, this is what I get:
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Old 11-20-2019, 01:07 PM   #93
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and playback knob looks almost like square, is it intended?
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Old 11-20-2019, 02:53 PM   #94
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Default Arrange Window CC Lane Highlights

I'm wondering if it might be better to have the highlighting of selected CC lanes on indented child tracks stop at the left edge of the child track. (Instead of going all the way to the left) The idea is to keep the visual sense of a folder with all members lined up. As it is now, it looks somewhat like the selected CC lane is a folder for the tracks below it.
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Old 11-20-2019, 03:49 PM   #95
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What are the 50% and 75% layouts used for?

https://stash.reaper.fm/37536/75%25.png
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Old 11-21-2019, 07:33 AM   #96
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EDIT: Please totally disregard this from me. I'm an idiot & forgot to setup a new shortcut to the dev version & was running v5.981.....carry on

Quote:
Originally Posted by bFooz View Post
I'm getting this error:

Code:
Default_6.0_theme_adjuster.lua:642: attempt to compare number with nil

I'm getting a similar error message but I believe it's for line 638. The funny thing is that the adjuster works fine while using the i3 window manager (linux) but when using xfce or kde desktop environments it gives this error for line 638. I'll double check the error msg when I'm back at the PC.
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Old 11-21-2019, 09:44 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Peevy View Post
I'm getting a similar error message but I believe it's for line 638. The funny thing is that the adjuster works fine while using the i3 window manager (linux) but when using xfce or kde desktop environments it gives this error for line 638. I'll double check the error msg when I'm back at the PC.
Yeah, I have the same error for line 642 on mac os.
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Old 11-21-2019, 12:18 PM   #98
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Yeah, I have the same error for line 642 on mac os.
Updating to a more recent dev build fixed this for me. Which one are you on?
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Old 11-21-2019, 02:07 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
Yes, I maybe am. With deep regret. If you'd like to look back through the theme threads, you'll see where we discussed this, and there was no obvoius solution. It would be useful to a full screenshot to be able to see how this is affecting you, but the TL/DR is:
  • I cannot make changes based on the users' time diplay mode, because Reaper doesn't communicate that to the theme.
  • I have repeated user requests to make the selection text bigger, which I have actioned here.
  • I can do things to change the size of the text when space becomes small, but this is irksome if space hasn't actually become small, for users on the shorter time display modes, and anyway the amount of space I save is suprisingly and disapointingly small.
  • I have made a variable size rate fader, which can be very big. This can take up a lot of space. in previous builds, it ignored your setting and made itself smaller if there wasn't enough space for it to be big. Users really didn't like this because it felt broken and removed the opportunity to "have a big rate fader and squeeze other things out, I'mn fine with that" if they wanted.

Given the choice between a range of non-optimal outcomes, I chose the non-optimal outcome you are seeing. I'm not happy about it either!
Im sure the whole thing is very complex, totally.

But, I just dont thing that cut off numbers (in this case, or with the track numbers stated by others) is an acceptable thing for a default theme. Its not like a zoomed in transport AND using HH:MM:SS:FF rulers is a super unusual corner case either...
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Old 11-21-2019, 02:34 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by mlprod View Post
But, I just dont thing that cut off numbers (in this case, or with the track numbers stated by others) is an acceptable thing for a default theme. Its not like a zoomed in transport AND using HH:MM:SS:FF rulers is a super unusual corner case either...
It's not unusual especially for anyone working in Post/Film.
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Old 11-22-2019, 04:36 AM   #101
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Thanks for you help everyone! If we could please continue this in the new thread.

I very much hope the new version will fix all these crash problems, very sorry about them, and make sure everyone is on the correct build/theme/script versions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bFooz View Post
It was an unedited screenshot.
Then, with regret, I'm going to have to declare that as the fair compromise, because you can read the numbers, even though its ugly. The other side of that compromise would be to make every user lose (6 x track height) pixels, on every track. I'm very sure they wouldn't consider that worth it in order to make >100 track numbers look nicer.

Working within the constraints of the tools I have here, I'm afraid

Quote:
Originally Posted by fladd View Post
Shouldn’t a default theme be for everyone, rather than an opinionated solution for a certain set of users? Isn’t the latter what the stash is for?
Not really, its the other way around. This is supposed to be the 'straight down the middle' solution, and the stash is for the users who it doesn't cover. I make 3rd party themes too, y'know?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kavula View Post
and playback knob looks almost like square, is it intended?
Ooof, no. Could you check the new version and let me know if this persists please?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackBart View Post
I'm wondering if it might be better to have the highlighting of selected CC lanes on indented child tracks stop at the left edge of the child track. (Instead of going all the way to the left) The idea is to keep the visual sense of a folder with all members lined up. As it is now, it looks somewhat like the selected CC lane is a folder for the tracks below it.
Yes absolutely, and yes you can do that in the script.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hwhalen View Post
What are the 50% and 75% layouts used for?
If you are at 200% (retina) DPI, for example, you can use those layouts to get at the smaller (to you) sizes of 100% and 150%, for your less important tracks or if your eyesight is particularly awesome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlprod View Post
I just dont thing that cut off numbers (in this case, or with the track numbers stated by others) is an acceptable thing for a default theme. Its not like a zoomed in transport AND using HH:MM:SS:FF rulers is a super unusual corner case either...
That's not the corner case, the corner case is that AND a big-ass rate fader. Your screenshot doesn't include that so I can't tell if that applies to you, but if you go to the latest version it is now defaulting to a knob, which I hope will solve the problem for you.

The thing I can do here, that I have done in the past, is to aggressively hide stuff if there's even the slightest chance of smooshing. This disadvantages users who wouldn't have got smooshing, who are now wondering where the hell their selection values went This is compounded by me increasing the size of the selection text, in response to user requests, so the smooshing happens sooner and is more egregiously ugly.

Reaper doesn't report to the theme what the time mode is, doesn't report the draw length of the text and draws it at very different lengths anyway because of font mismatches across different OSes.

I'll have another look at this, but ultimately it comes down to me removing the option for the user to solve the problem by putting a massive safety margin in my 'OK, now just hide it' calculation, to save my blushes even though the ugly thing happens for only a subset of users. The thing is, my instinct is that the Reaper way would be more to allow it to look bad, and leave it for you to fiddle with the rate fader size / control hiding buttons in the script to solve the problem yourself.

I'm unsure what the right thing to do is on this.
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