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10-09-2010, 05:43 PM
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#81
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cambridge, Ontario
Posts: 2,644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd
Afaik it's included in the new SWS build, so you don't even need Python.
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This is correct! No Python required, you can thank Tim for putting up with my nagging for the past 2 days while I tried to get C++ and the extension source code going on my computer, haha...
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10-09-2010, 05:54 PM
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#82
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home is where the heart is
Posts: 12,096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWathan
[...]A perfectly gridded performance retaining all the dynamics of the original performance is just going to sound like a really tight drummer [...]
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Good point.
Thanks for the explaination.
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10-09-2010, 07:36 PM
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#83
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 3,210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWathan
You can just as easily chop up all the drum and manually move them "near" the grid if you like!
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or just use fingers extension to Quantize like i do,
it has Quantize Percentage & Groove Presets
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10-09-2010, 07:49 PM
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#84
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home is where the heart is
Posts: 12,096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subz
or just use fingers extension to Quantize like i do,
it has Quantize Percentage & Groove Presets
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Almost forgot about this since so far I only used it for Mdi.
But yeah, it works for Audio items too.
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10-09-2010, 09:00 PM
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#85
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Scribe
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Van Diemen's Land
Posts: 12,166
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Amazing stuff Adam! I am in awe (and shock )
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10-09-2010, 09:06 PM
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#86
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cambridge, Ontario
Posts: 2,644
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Thanks for all the kind words guys If anyone has ideas for improvements please let me know.
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10-09-2010, 09:43 PM
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#87
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cambridge, Ontario
Posts: 2,644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers
That is my thought too but for long crossfades the right type of equal power shouldn't dip or boost but it's too late here to get my head thinking about the maths behind that maybe tomorrow!
For now, linear it shall stay for you Adam!
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"SWS/AdamWathan: Fill gaps in selected items (advanced) now has user definable fade shape for crossfades"
http://www.standingwaterstudios.com/new.php
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10-09-2010, 09:46 PM
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#88
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Caracas, Venezuela
Posts: 8,676
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Adam, would you explain a bit each option in that menu?
Thanks
__________________
Pressure is what turns coal into diamonds - Michael a.k.a. Runaway
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10-09-2010, 10:37 PM
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#89
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cambridge, Ontario
Posts: 2,644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro
Adam, would you explain a bit each option in that menu?
Thanks
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Sure! I cover it in the last video but a text explanation is worth having here for sure, meant to do it originally!
Trigger Pad: This is a leading pad added to the beginning of each chunk and subtracted from the end of the previous chunk. The snap offset is adjusted to compensate so that your media will still snap to the transient. It is a sort of safety buffer. Imagine you have a section where the snare and ride hits at the same time, but the ride is a tiny bit early. Dynamic split cut at the snare transient though for one of a variety of reasons. This buffer would ensure that the ride transient is preserved directly before the snare and that it is cut out of the previous item. It basically just lets you be lazier when checking the quality of your splits
Crossfade Length: This is the length of the crossfade created between the tail of any item and the beginning of the next item. It is always placed to the left and is in addition to any trigger pad (ie. a trigger pad of 5ms and a crossfade length of 5ms will result in a minimum of 10ms between the start of the crossfade and the transient in the next item.)
Maximum Gap: This is the maximum allowable gap before the code attempts to time stretch the previous item. If you set a max gap of 20ms and the code detects a gap of 50ms, it will timestretch the previous item until either a) the gap has been reduced to 20ms, or b) the Maximum Stretch value has been reached. If the detected gap is less than the Maximum Gap, the following item is simply trimmed back to fill it with no stretching applied whatsoever.
Maximum Stretch: This is the maximum amount that an item will stretch. The value corresponds with the "Rate" value displayed in a media item when timestretching it, so 0.85 means the item will stretch to a maximum rate of 0.85 In my experience, it usually sounds better to allow more stretching than it does to allow a larger Maximum Gap, so don't be afraid to set this value low. A value of 0 will let the item stretch as much as it needs to while a value of 1 will disable stretching entirely.
Preserve Transient: This is the amount of the item you want to prevent from stretching no matter what. Stretching the initial attack of a media item usually sounds poor, so this will prevent that initial attack from stretching and only stretch the tail of the item. If this is set to 35ms for example, a split is placed 35ms after the transient and only the item to the right of the split will be stretched, leaving the initial attack untouched. A value of 0 disables this function completely. The default value of 35ms is usually pretty good.
Transient Crossfade Length: This is simply the length of the crossfade used when splitting at the "Preserve Transient" point.
Fade Shape: This determines the shape of the fades used when performing any crossfades. It is an integer from 0 to 5, the following chart explains which is which.
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10-09-2010, 10:50 PM
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#90
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sydney Oz
Posts: 8,480
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Just an idea Adam, it would be great once this is tested properly and you're satisfied with it, if you could do a new Drum Editing thread in tips and tricks with links to the videos etc...and including your slip-editing tutorials as well? I have a feeling this thread will blow well out, and that'll save reading through multiple pages to get the gist, you could keep it all in your first post, and then just update that when you find new situations for it. And I guess other people can add to that in subsequent posts.
This info is just too valuable to let sink, it needs to be stickied somewhere and included in the manual and wiki...and perhaps on the DUC forum.
Thanks again man!
Last edited by Bevosss; 10-09-2010 at 10:59 PM.
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10-09-2010, 11:46 PM
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#91
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sydney Oz
Posts: 8,480
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Hey Adam, should that only create crossfades? I found a situation while testing where it created a fadeout/in instead because the last overlap was created 5ms early, just using the default settings on the demo.
I saved an .rpp, if you run the action you'll see what happens at marker #2.
Last edited by Bevosss; 10-09-2010 at 11:59 PM.
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10-10-2010, 12:53 AM
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#92
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Norway
Posts: 7,318
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Wow, nice!!
__________________
Reaper x64, win 11
Composer, text-writer, producer
Bandcamp
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10-10-2010, 05:37 AM
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#93
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWathan
Thanks for all the kind words guys If anyone has ideas for improvements please let me know.
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One thing i mentioned earlier, was the ability to choose between time stretch and reverse. "Reverse" would extend drum hits by adding a reversed copy right at the end of a chop, rather than time stretch them.
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10-10-2010, 05:37 AM
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#94
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,153
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Adam thank you so much for your work. This added functionality is brilliant!
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10-10-2010, 05:59 AM
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#95
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cambridge, Ontario
Posts: 2,644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevosss
Hey Adam, should that only create crossfades? I found a situation while testing where it created a fadeout/in instead because the last overlap was created 5ms early, just using the default settings on the demo.
I saved an .rpp, if you run the action you'll see what happens at marker #2.
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I get a crossfade? Settings are 5, 5, 15, 0.5, 35, 5, 0. Can you provide your settings and a screenshot with "Show overlapping items in lanes" turned on?
http://screencast.com/t/fxvKBAGIxfmb
EDIT: Got it, the culprit is having default item fades enabled and have it automatically create a crossfade when splitting. For now, make sure default fades are disabled when running the action. I'll try and figure out a solution in the mean time.
EDIT 2: Fixed it, you guys just have to wait until Tim uploads a new build! Sorry Tim!
EDIT 3: And the new build is up, Bevoss grab it and let me know how it works for you now. And donate some money to Tim
Last edited by AdamWathan; 10-10-2010 at 11:21 AM.
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10-10-2010, 06:10 AM
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#96
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cambridge, Ontario
Posts: 2,644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikolo
One thing i mentioned earlier, was the ability to choose between time stretch and reverse. "Reverse" would extend drum hits by adding a reversed copy right at the end of a chop, rather than time stretch them.
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Can you explain this a little more? So say I have item 1 and item 2 chopped and gridded, you would fill the gap with a new item that had a reversed copy of item 1 in it? Screenshots would be helpful so I can figure out if this is something I can add!
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10-10-2010, 10:30 AM
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#97
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 421
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Nice work
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10-10-2010, 11:26 AM
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#98
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Norway
Posts: 7,318
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Is it just me being blind.. I downloaded SWS latest and couldn't find your glorious Autopocket. We didn't need Phython right?
__________________
Reaper x64, win 11
Composer, text-writer, producer
Bandcamp
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10-10-2010, 11:30 AM
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#99
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Sun
Is it just me being blind.. I downloaded SWS latest and couldn't find your glorious Autopocket. We didn't need Phython right?
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search for "adam" and you'll find it in actions
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10-10-2010, 12:00 PM
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#100
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Norway
Posts: 7,318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers
search for "adam" and you'll find it in actions
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Excellent! Thanks!
__________________
Reaper x64, win 11
Composer, text-writer, producer
Bandcamp
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10-10-2010, 12:32 PM
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#101
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: swing on the spiral of our divinity
Posts: 2,242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWathan
Can you explain this a little more? So say I have item 1 and item 2 chopped and gridded, you would fill the gap with a new item that had a reversed copy of item 1 in it? Screenshots would be helpful so I can figure out if this is something I can add!
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I think that's what he means yeah. It's the same thing Recycle does when you stretch a sliced loop in it.
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10-10-2010, 03:08 PM
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#102
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sydney Oz
Posts: 8,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWathan
Bevoss grab it and let me know how it works for you now.)
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You guys work fast! All working now crossfade-wise, but I think there might be another problem:
Same rpp I sent you, when you run the action now, the crossfades are fine...but, do you end up with 2 huge empty items to the right of marker 2? I don't get that running the quick crossfade action, just the advanced one (same settings as you listed).
Sorry for finding more bugs!
Last edited by Bevosss; 10-10-2010 at 03:16 PM.
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10-10-2010, 03:16 PM
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#103
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cambridge, Ontario
Posts: 2,644
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Well the items are all offline so I can't tell but I am confident I know why...
Likely the items on the right of the marker do not have enough hidden material available to be trimmed. And you probably have "loop item source" turned off? So when you extend the start of an unlooped item that doesn't have enough material available to trim, it "loops" but because looping is disabled, everything past the loop point is blank and the source gets moved to the left of the loop point... Make sense? Posting from my phone otherwise I would post a vid or screenies
Or maybe I'm totally wrong and it's another problem, hehe... I should change it though so that it checks to see if there is enough material available for it to trim. For drum editing and stuff that shouldn't really happen because everything is part of one giant source file, but people trying to use it for other purposes are gonna have weird issues like that :/
Edit: actually hmm, if the quick one works but not the advanced one I don't know. Can you upload a zip with an RPP and some small audio files so I can really see whats happening?
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10-10-2010, 04:04 PM
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#104
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sydney Oz
Posts: 8,480
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It's solo-small.ogg from the Brad Sux demo, I just grabbed the first file I could find on my net machine to test if the new actions worked, nothing too sensible though(!)...it probably works fine on the expected drum material.
edit: Arghh forget that, I was testing the last thing with the media offline too ('cause I'd moved the rpp to the desktop), it only names those items empty for some reason in this situation...tried the original rpp with media online, everything ends up as expected...my bad.
Last edited by Bevosss; 10-10-2010 at 07:44 PM.
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10-11-2010, 12:08 PM
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#105
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 69
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Is there any way of improving Reaper's dynamic-split feature?
Also, is there a way I can auto-quantise using a percentage slider through some extension or something?
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10-11-2010, 12:17 PM
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#106
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cambridge, Ontario
Posts: 2,644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitaldeath
Is there any way of improving Reaper's dynamic-split feature?
Also, is there a way I can auto-quantise using a percentage slider through some extension or something?
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1. No, it's not perfect but it's usually ok if the material is defined enough. Here's a trick I've been using...
When making the stereo stem to split from, only use the tracks you want referenced of course. Usually just kick/snare/toms. What I do though as well, is throw Trigger/apTrigga on every track triggering a TINY little "blip" sample, and tweak Trigger until it is catching 99% of the hits properly for every drum. Now render the stem track with Trigger on, and you will end up with a stereo stem full of just tiny "blips". Dynamic split will catch all those 100% perfectly, since there is no bleed whatsoever and the transients are extremely defined.
So use these stereo trigger mix as your split source so Reaper has something really obvious to detect the transients from. It sounds like a lot more work than it is, it honestly takes 5 minutes and you only do it once, then print the stem track and you're done for the whole song, you don't have to print them section by section.
2. As I understand it Fingers' Groove Extension provides this functionality even for audio files, but it's Windows only so I haven't been able to test.
FWIW, I just edited a drum track that would've taken me 2+ hours slip editing in about 40 minutes using the Trigger trick to create my stem, then splitting in huge sections, quantizing and filling with my script. It's so bloody fast, I love it
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10-11-2010, 12:33 PM
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#107
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWathan
1. No, it's not perfect but it's usually ok if the material is defined enough. Here's a trick I've been using...
When making the stereo stem to split from, only use the tracks you want referenced of course. Usually just kick/snare/toms. What I do though as well, is throw Trigger/apTrigga on every track triggering a TINY little "blip" sample, and tweak Trigger until it is catching 99% of the hits properly for every drum. Now render the stem track with Trigger on, and you will end up with a stereo stem full of just tiny "blips". Dynamic split will catch all those 100% perfectly, since there is no bleed whatsoever and the transients are extremely defined.
So use these stereo trigger mix as your split source so Reaper has something really obvious to detect the transients from. It sounds like a lot more work than it is, it honestly takes 5 minutes and you only do it once, then print the stem track and you're done for the whole song, you don't have to print them section by section.
2. As I understand it Fingers' Groove Extension provides this functionality even for audio files, but it's Windows only so I haven't been able to test.
FWIW, I just edited a drum track that would've taken me 2+ hours slip editing in about 40 minutes using the Trigger trick to create my stem, then splitting in huge sections, quantizing and filling with my script. It's so bloody fast, I love it
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Cheers Adam, I'll try that.
Just wondering if I missed your macro for "quick quantize" anywhere? I'd rather not have to pop up the quantize dialog, just click and have the selected items quantize to the current grid setting. Cheers!
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10-11-2010, 12:35 PM
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#108
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cambridge, Ontario
Posts: 2,644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitaldeath
Cheers Adam, I'll try that.
Just wondering if I missed your macro for "quick quantize" anywhere? I'd rather not have to pop up the quantize dialog, just click and have the selected items quantize to the current grid setting. Cheers!
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That one's Tim's!
SWS: Quantize item's start to grid (keep length)
Best action evar.
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10-11-2010, 01:01 PM
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#109
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 4,630
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Hey Adam, where's that toolbar? My mom's been waiting for it!
[Okay, it's not really my mom that's waiting - it's me. Can I please have it?]
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10-11-2010, 01:06 PM
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#110
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kundalinguist
Hey Adam, where's that toolbar? My mom's been waiting for it!
[Okay, it's not really my mom that's waiting - it's me. Can I please have it?]
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He posted it over on the Sneap forums.
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/e...emo-video.html
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10-11-2010, 02:41 PM
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#111
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWathan
Can you explain this a little more? So say I have item 1 and item 2 chopped and gridded, you would fill the gap with a new item that had a reversed copy of item 1 in it? Screenshots would be helpful so I can figure out if this is something I can add!
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yeah, a reverse copy of the sample is pasted in right at the end of the original- it has to be sample accurate to avoid clicks.
this is a collection of custom actions that i made to do it, its a little clunky but its quicker than doin each reverse individually, expeciialy when you've got loads of hits.
Run or Assign key command to "Custom: sample reverse new (Copy)" - all the other custom actions are just to make the main action work.
at the moment you have to use it at the start of the track. It uses sws fade A to apply fades at the end of each copy - to compensate for the rise in volume as the peak of the reverse hit approaches.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4mjXD0Y4zk
Last edited by mikolo; 10-11-2010 at 03:49 PM.
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10-11-2010, 03:26 PM
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#112
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sydney Oz
Posts: 8,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWathan
When making the stereo stem to split from, only use the tracks you want referenced of course. Usually just kick/snare/toms. What I do though as well, is throw Trigger/apTrigga on every track triggering a TINY little "blip" sample, and tweak Trigger until it is catching 99% of the hits properly for every drum. Now render the stem track with Trigger on, and you will end up with a stereo stem full of just tiny "blips". Dynamic split will catch all those 100% perfectly, since there is no bleed whatsoever and the transients are extremely defined.
So use these stereo trigger mix as your split source so Reaper has something really obvious to detect the transients from.
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It just gets better!
Adam, would you be able to upload your 'blip' sample? Or is it a setting on Trigger that does it? Cheers.
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10-11-2010, 04:13 PM
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#113
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sydney Oz
Posts: 8,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWathan
So use these stereo trigger mix as your split source so Reaper has something really obvious to detect the transients from. It sounds like a lot more work than it is, it honestly takes 5 minutes and you only do it once, then print the stem track and you're done for the whole song, you don't have to print them section by section.
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My old 'Drum Overview' macro automates the rendering part, assuming the tracks are in a folder and you have soloed the tracks to render, you just select the folder track and run it (mapped to Ctrl-Alt-F10 as is). It renders a post-fader stem (so you can use the folder fader to control the waveform size), mutes it, and groups it with all the child tracks of that folder.
Speeds up the process slightly...
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10-11-2010, 08:15 PM
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#114
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cambridge, Ontario
Posts: 2,644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevosss
My old 'Drum Overview' macro automates the rendering part, assuming the tracks are in a folder and you have soloed the tracks to render, you just select the folder track and run it (mapped to Ctrl-Alt-F10 as is). It renders a post-fader stem (so you can use the folder fader to control the waveform size), mutes it, and groups it with all the child tracks of that folder.
Speeds up the process slightly...
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Ooo nice this is great!
Here's the blip sample: http://www.adamwathan.com/reaper/trigblip3.wav
All it is is a short sine wave at 1600hz with a fadeout applied to it, hehe
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10-11-2010, 10:02 PM
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#115
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sydney Oz
Posts: 8,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWathan
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Thanks Adam!
You might find these short samples useful too, one is Pipe's old blipper sample, the other is a one click sample provided by Art Evans...good for testing some things, I use it to align reamp tracks.
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10-19-2010, 09:20 AM
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#116
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,294
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good work Adam!
thank you
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10-21-2010, 08:51 AM
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#117
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lastrite
Good stuff, thank you!
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Now that I've had a chance to really use this, I've decided that my initial praise was insufficient.
Awesome stuff, thanks again!
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10-21-2010, 09:11 AM
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#118
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,025
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Adam, just want to say that I'm not currently in a position where I would use this because I don't record/mix live bands (yet... maybe... we'll see), however despite that, I'm in awe of this contribution. I can tell that I'll come back here and thank you a million times if/when I am working on something that could take advantage of this.
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10-21-2010, 09:56 AM
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#119
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Posts: 1,057
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I believe this thread needs to be a permanent sticky. WAY too much great info for it not to be...
__________________
"A fly was very close to being called a land, 'cause that's what they do half the time."
-Mitch Hedberg
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10-21-2010, 10:12 AM
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#120
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cambridge, Ontario
Posts: 2,644
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Thanks guys.
Anybody have any ideas for improvement? I was considering today revamping it slightly in such a way that it automatically places a marker anywhere where it had to do anything extreme to fill the gap so you know to listen for a bad edit.
For example, if the max stretch value was reached and it had to fill a big gap, there is a good chance it will probably create an audible artifact, so I could have it place a marker at that location so that after filling you can easily identify which spots to listen to and double check.
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