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02-14-2014, 08:12 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Padova
Posts: 1,626
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ripple editing with item edge
It's the first time i make a FR, so i want to be sure it's needed to or maybe there's something i m missing.
I madea topic about it, but it looks like there isnt.
that's the goal:
in ripple editing you can move all the items from one point to another one by clickin on the first one and move it back or forward.
You can also cut a portion of item, deleting it and all the items on the right will move left next to the just cutted item.
That's great, but, as i work most with voiceovers and speaks in general, often i need to adjust a cut pulling the right edge of an item to recover some cents of seconds of the deleted part.
No problem if i have silence betwen that right edge and the next item, but if i dont have silence and i pull the right edge i have a crossfade were the two items overlap.
This both in ripple mode on and off.
What i want is that in ripple mode on, if i pull the right edge i dont have a crossfade but the next item moves with my pulling.
so the idea could be a mouse modifire on the edge of item that, by ripple editing, does this feature.
i made a gif take from PT (where i took the idea from), and i made an attacched file here, i hope you can see it.
EDIT: ok it doesnt work, i will post it in few minutes
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02-14-2014, 08:25 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Padova
Posts: 1,626
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Last edited by metal_priest; 02-14-2014 at 08:31 AM.
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02-14-2014, 08:27 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Very good idea indeed. Definitely useful.
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02-14-2014, 08:31 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Padova
Posts: 1,626
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yey, i posted the gif too
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03-09-2015, 05:05 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: France
Posts: 9,875
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THis is nice!!
Any news from this ?
Is there a vote open ?
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03-12-2015, 04:28 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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Doesn't this look kinda like the new modifier in 50pre16 ? Perhaps it is.
Metalpriest, head on over to the pre-release forum and try it out on a portable install if you must.
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03-16-2015, 03:18 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: France
Posts: 9,875
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03-16-2015, 03:59 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Padova
Posts: 1,626
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oh i didn't noticed that this topic was alive
i will take a look to the pre16!
ray, you almost get what i meant...i'd like just your "right offset" as mouse modifier, because i want that the previous items (on the left) are fixed where they are because already synched where they have to be.
so even moving the left edge, the "starting" point of the item should be in the same spot and all the rest at the right (item itself) should moving.
damn, i really don't know how to make a good gif to explain it better.
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03-16-2015, 05:09 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Raym
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Also, the same thing would be awesome to have as mouse modifier in MIDI editor!
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03-16-2015, 11:40 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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Voted! All these things would be awesome
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
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03-09-2016, 07:58 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: France
Posts: 9,875
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Note that the script posted above doesn't answer the request. They are workarround, and a native solution would be far more flexible.
As a quick resume, here what would be appreciated
- ability to ripple edit from edges preserving source position (mode 1) and preserving source position relative to edge (mode 2) as two mouse modifiers
Thanks for listening !
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03-09-2016, 09:20 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,239
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+1000 for this.
Much of my work is for Radio, and a large amount of time is spent speech editing.
For this, the two functions described here would be incredibly useful, and I believe it would tempt a lot of users away from another workstation which is very common in radio and onto Reaper. Both would need to Ripple items to the right AND to the left of the one being edited.
Function 1 - a mouse modifier to click/drag the edge of an item and have other items on the timeline Ripple relative to the edge.
Eg with two items next to each other on the timeline, and with a short crossfade between them, clicking and dragging the righthand edge (fade out) of the lefthand item would Ripple the items to the right so that the crossfade length remained the same but its position changed. Similarly, if the lefthand edge (fade in) of the righthand clip was dragged, items to the left would ripple to achieve the same effect.
In essence, it would look like X-Rayms demo video (with the offset sliders) above, but by using a mouse modifier to click and drag the item edge instead of the sliders.
Function 2 - another mouse modifier to click and drag the item CONTENTS towards or away from the fade (like Slip edit), and have the other end of the clip remain the same (unlike Slip edit), with all subsequent items (in either direction) Rippling if Ripple mode is on.
This is harder to describe, but it looks like this.... (sorry, I don't know how to embed the video in this post)
https://youtu.be/KCMOk_ZfcIY
It is impossible to overstate how useful these functions would be for Radio use.
Please consider these requests. Many thanks.
Andy
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11-20-2016, 10:37 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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+1
Great for spoken word programs, because this will get used 1000 times a day, saving plenty of time and effort.
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12-26-2016, 10:42 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 642
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+1
The BBC needs that too.
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01-04-2017, 01:40 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: France
Posts: 9,875
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Maybe my TOP 1 feature request for REAPER. Very useful in podcast/videoediting/voice narration kind of work !
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01-25-2017, 12:20 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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I'm bumping this again too!
Would be so useful!
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
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01-25-2017, 12:37 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,247
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Count me in !
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01-25-2017, 01:08 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: France
Posts: 9,875
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I also like how the Propagate tool works in premiere pro. When you right click left item edge and drag left, it move content and next item to the right, leaving item as its position.
This could be another mouse modifier
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06-11-2017, 10:51 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,333
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+1 to this FR. It should be optional of course.
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02-28-2019, 02:34 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 50
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This thread is getting old. And It still would be super cool to have this!!!
Particularly for videos
Please please please.
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06-09-2019, 07:42 PM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Louisville, KY, USA
Posts: 1,075
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Any news on this FR?
I'm working on editing some video which is mostly dialog and requires a lot of edits in the same fashion. This FR would immensely speed up the editing process.
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06-09-2019, 08:02 PM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 81
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I'm midway through a big podcast edit and this feature would be SO useful!
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06-09-2019, 08:16 PM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Leipzig
Posts: 6,621
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Yes, I'm trying to build this one now for ages myself as "RippleDrag" but it's too complicated in ReaScript...
Biggest difficulty is, that we don't have the option to add actions for dragging-mousemodifiers.
With this and an Api-function "get_drag_difftime_items" which would return the itemnumber of the affected item, it's old length/position and new length/position, this would be possible to script.
Last edited by Meo-Ada Mespotine; 06-09-2019 at 08:21 PM.
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06-10-2019, 02:35 AM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,239
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I'm working on this myself.
As mespotine says, it's very difficult (if not impossible) to do this by dragging with the mouse. A native solution would be amazing.
What I'm trying to do is create scripts which Ripple from edges based on a small nudge that is run repeatedly. This could then be assigned to a key or a MIDI controller etc. It's not ideal, but I think will work ok. The logic of what moves when is rather more complex than you might imagine, but I think I've figured that out.... I just need enough time to get stuck into the coding.
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01-07-2020, 04:44 AM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 50
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Still no news on this...
It'd be awesome to have it.
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11-01-2020, 09:25 PM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 40
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+1
I've been after this for ages, tried scripting something but came to naught. Any solution would be brilliant. Lets keep this idea alive!
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11-04-2020, 03:53 PM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 17
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Another thread exploring this issue, with some interesting insight from @amagalma on script limitations.
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=244122
Since there doesn't seem to be action/interest from the dev team over more than 5 years now (sadly), anyone able to help explore the size of the task for a c++ extension approach?
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11-09-2020, 04:58 AM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,239
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Hi all
This is something that would also be massively useful to me, although it seems that the devs aren't interested in implementing it yet. I guess it's not so useful for music work as it is for speech, and that's probably more what they use Reaper for themselves.
Anyway, I read the threads about scripting this, and it's a shame that the experienced scripters think it's not viable to make it fast enough.
Can I just share a thought I had when I was thinking about how to script it myself? I haven't had time to make a serious effort at the code yet, and my LUA skills are pretty basic, but maybe this insight might help someone more knowledgeable with coding to have another look. Maybe not, but you never know.
Instead of thinking about moving an edge and having items Ripple accordingly, think about it this way:
----In terms of the content of an item, moving its edge is effectively the same as moving the whole item and then moving the edge back to where it was.-----
So, instead of trying to drag the edge of an item and somehow track with a script where it's moved and Ripple items by the same amount, how about doing this:
Make a script which would run in Defer Cycle so it's "watching" the position of the selected item(s) - specifically the position of the start and end points. When you make or change the selection, it "stores" those values for the selected item(s) and each defer cycle it checks whether they have changed (ie whether you've moved the item). If they have, it simply sets them back to the original position (effectively growing or shrinking the item as if you'd dragged the edge instead).
Now, there are some drawbacks to this compared to dragging the edge instead:
1) The script would have to know which edge (start or end) you wanted to "fix" in position when the item moved. This might mean having two different scripts to create a "fix left edge" mode and a "fix right edge" mode. Or perhaps holding a modifier key down while the script was running could tell it which you wanted to fix at that moment.
2) There'd need to be some error trapping to prevent mayhem if you accidentally dragged an edge instead of moving the whole item while the script was running.
3) There's quite a bit of logic to sort out in deciding what to do if multiple items are selected (basically, I think the first or last selected item on each track should have its edge fixed, depending on which edge you're fixing), and also what to do with items that overlap the item being moved. Also, some mechanism to prevent items being moved so that their length is <0 etc.
However, for the Fix Left Edge, the Ripple function is already built into Reaper, because items further to the right would Ripple according to the movement of the selected item(s). For the Fix Right Edge, everything to the left of the selected item(s) would need to Ripple instead, which would have to be written manually I think.
Is there any mileage in this approach?
Andy
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11-09-2020, 11:09 AM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Leipzig
Posts: 6,621
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+1000
I tried to code it via ReaScript but there are limitations in the Api that forbid that.
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11-10-2020, 06:02 PM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 40
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I actually suspect this WAS in development but for one reason or another has been left by the wayside.
I found a few really bizarre mouse modifiers for left drag on media item...
Media Item > Move item contents > Ripple edit adjacent items
Media Item > Move item contents > Ripple edit earlier adjacent items
Media Item > Move item contents > Ripple edit later adjacent items
These do something similar to what we're talking about. It's so close, just not quite the behaviour I want. It has some very strange effects though. For instance, it doesn't obey the ripple mode referenced by every single other tool labelled with "ripple". All it does is move an adjacent item if the item being edited bumps into it. Stranger still, it seems to fall apart completely if you move the mouse too quickly.
I think I'll also report this as a bug. I think this tool SHOULD work the same way as other ripple tools. That is to say, blank space is accounted for while rippling, and it should work on one track or all tracks depending on ripple state.
What are everyone else's thoughts on this?
https://imgur.com/a/HzEbXIq
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11-11-2020, 02:54 PM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,239
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Agree totally. Those actions are so bizarrely unpredictable I wonder who ever uses them?
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11-12-2020, 08:51 AM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,451
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Guys, I did it! No problems no matter how fast you move the mouse cursor. Items will always be at the correct position when you release the left mouse button.
If I could do it with a script, I am sure the devs can do it natively
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11-12-2020, 11:54 AM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: France
Posts: 9,875
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@amalgama
Wow !
Is it full ripple, like it can works all tracks and move markers and envelopes point ?or just same track item ripple ?
also, can it snap ?
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11-12-2020, 12:43 PM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,239
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Amagalma, that looks amazing.
Does it also work for the Left Edge? And do you plan to release this script?
EDIT - I would happily pay for this if it works reliably from left and right edges. For my Speech/Audio Drama editing workflows this would be a total game changer.
Thanks
Andy
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11-12-2020, 02:29 PM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Leipzig
Posts: 6,621
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The left edge is actually the difficult one,which lead me to give up.
The thing is, that you don't want to move the left edge.
If you track the right edge, like Amagalma did, you can apply the changes to the items after.
But the left one, you would need to see the left-sided movement and push the changed item and all the following towards the end of the project.
This is possible but will produce flicker very likely.
And you need to change the mouse cursor(but that's easy to do).
Wouldn't wonder, if Amagalma pulls it off anyway but I think getting rid of the flickering is probably the hard part(I doubt PreventUIRefresh helps here, as you can't monitor when the item is clicked to prevent ui refresh for the click-dragging-time. I once made this item-click-monitoring happen due an SWS-bug but the bugfix got me rid of the clickstate as well. I was so damn close in scripting that...) ).
If it flickers, it makes you nuts. Especially when you want to drag in very fine details.
The dev's power however should make this possible.
Last edited by Meo-Ada Mespotine; 11-12-2020 at 02:35 PM.
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11-12-2020, 03:27 PM
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#38
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,239
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Thanks Meo-Ada
I guessed the left edge is the tricky one because there's no Ripple Left feature in Reaper (yet!)
I wonder if the idea I described a few posts further up helps here. It seems to me that solves the left edge problem quite simply, by instead moving the item but "fixing" the edge. Ripples will work automatically that way, unless I'm mistaken.
It's beyond my ability to code. But Amagalma, could you maybe consider if this is a way to make a "both edges" script?
Andy
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11-12-2020, 03:31 PM
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#39
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: France
Posts: 9,875
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Actually there is two different ways to handle left
- ir could move previous item back in time
- or it move item content and item item RIGHT edge (this is similiar to the Propagate tool in Premiere Pro, very common in video editing software)
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....=1#post1482831
THis was the original thread for ripple edit edge I think
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11-12-2020, 04:05 PM
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#40
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,239
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The first one requires error trapping to prevent items trying to Ripple to before zero time.
But the second, moving the item to the Right when you let go makes it harder to do repeated fine adjustments though, as the mouse is no longer in the right place when the move occurs....
Which is preferable? I think the first one, but either would be a huge improvement over what we have currently available.
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