Hardware question

kirk1701 · 02-27-2020, 02:04 PM

I've recently been mixing with Waves Redd plugins and I'm really loving them. (If you Waves-haters haven't tried these, you're missing out.) I didn't like them when I tried them a number of years ago, but I hadn't learned enough about tracking. Now that I've sorted that, I'm really impressed by the punch and silk these eqs add.

I like it so much, I'm wondering what a hardware v72 or REDD.47 would sound like. These are expensive items and I already have a 1073 clone. It's the only piece of hardware I have. I don't want to start dumping money I don't have into gear I only use on the front end.

I'm looking at Phaedrus Audio in the UK. They have a really interesting line of recreations of EMI Abbey Road gear. They have versions of Redd.47, RS124, shuffler circuit, and eq. The prices are nice if you're in the UK, but they're not helpful with international shipping. (That's fair for a small business.)

TL

R

Should I be looking at preamp or compressor for some nice front end tube/transformer weight. (I don't want to argue about whether tubes/transformers are snake oil. I have very specific sounds I like and I've educated my ears well.)

Do I need to invest in actual EMI cloned gear or would a simple LA-2A guitar pedal do the trick?

I should mention I track vox and guitars/amps with mics and bass DI. These all go through my pre73jr. It has an insert for a 2nd pre, eq, or compressor. I often use a compressor pedal in that insert.

The bass sometimes sounds a little clicky, even though I'm using tapewound strings. I don't like a trebly bass sound. I want a bass to be fat, thick, and dark (dangerous descriptors in today's political climate lol).

DVDdoug · 02-27-2020, 03:25 PM

I'd generally favor software.

I don't know anything about that hardware but with hardware you pay a lot of money for "one sound" so hopefully you really-really like it, or hopefully you've got lots of money.

Almost anything that can be done in hardware can also be done in software, except it's not easy to exactly-emulate any particular piece of hardware.*

With hardware you (usually) don't get latency and you can apply compression/limiting before you clip your analog-to-digital converter.

And with a guitar pedal, you (usually) get an actual foot pedal which isn't practical to emulate in software.

Hardware can often be easier to set-up. You just plug it in and twist a few knobs.

Hardware will eventually deteriorate and fail.

Software lasts forever (if it doesn't get corrupted) but it can become incompatible when you update your operating system or DAW.

With software, you usually get better overall sound quality (lower noise, lower distortion, and flatter frequency response) unless the software is trying to exactly emulate the hardware with all of it's defects/weaknesses. (Or of course, sometimes it's the distortion you're trying to emulate.)

And, with software you can do things that are impossible in real-time, like look-ahead compression/limiting.

*With vintage hardware there are unit-to-unit variations so who knows what it was originally supposed to sound like, and any particular emulation will depend on the sample(s) they have to model as well as their measurement & software skills, etc.

kirk1701 · 02-27-2020, 07:39 PM

I wasn't really looking for the pros and cons of hardware vs software though you've summarized that debate admirably. Some good thoughts in there.

I was actually wondering if a V72 or REDD.47 is different enough to my pre73jr to justify itself? Would I notice a huge tonal difference? I don't mean better; I mean distinct.

I like to get the sounds at tracking. It makes mixing so much simpler. When you're just recording alone, it helps to have choices so you don't sound too homogenous.

ivansc · 02-28-2020, 01:31 AM

The jury is out on all of this. Depends partially on your ears, partly on how tactile you are.

I had a bunch of hardware, all of which other than two or three preamps & channel strips are gone.

But then I an in my seventies & grew up using tape & hardware.

kirk1701 · 03-01-2020, 12:39 PM

I've gathered some info/pricing from a few sources on mono V72 or REDD.47 type mic preamps.

I am correct, apparently, in the unique tone of these units. They don't distort as easily as the plugins, nor are they as fuzzy. They're quite hi-fi. Glassy, shiney, and punchy.

I don't seem to be able to find them for less than $1000CAD. That's far more than I can justify spending. If I was recording other artists, it'd be a different story. As a hobbyist, I can't see spending more than $500 on an external preamp.

(If you have a small commerical studio, or freelance, you owe it to yourself to check out Phaedrus Audio in the UK. Affordable, high quality versions of gear you can't find anywhere else.)

domzy · 03-01-2020, 01:09 PM

which Phaedrus Audio units do you own / have you tried?

kirk1701 · 03-06-2020, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by domzy

which Phaedrus Audio units do you own / have you tried?

Zero. But I don't know of anyone other than Chandler making EMI-style hardware

domzy · 03-06-2020, 06:16 PM

ok, but for someone who claims to have well-educated ears and very specific likes in terms of sound why are you recommending something you haven't used? maybe they've offered you a discount to big them up

kirk1701 · 03-09-2020, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by domzy

ok, but for someone who claims to have well-educated ears and very specific likes in terms of sound why are you recommending something you haven't used? maybe they've offered you a discount to big them up

Who hurt you?

domzy · 03-09-2020, 06:01 PM

sorry, i wasn't aware that i wasn't allowed to question your credentials

kirk1701 · 03-10-2020, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by domzy

sorry, i wasn't aware that i wasn't allowed to question your credentials

So don't check out the company. No one's got a gun to your head. Why waste energy bitching?

domzy · 03-10-2020, 02:46 AM

Why are you wasting energy recommending something you have no experience of? That's all i was asking, i'm not bitching, just curious. It seems like you are the one getting all het up about it.

kirk1701 · 03-10-2020, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by domzy

Why are you wasting energy recommending something you have no experience of? That's all i was asking, i'm not bitching, just curious. It seems like you are the one getting all het up about it.

I see no problem informing other people aware of a product that looks interesting to me. I don't have to prove anything to you.

You seem to be implying that I'm dishonest or conceited, or both. That's not in any way useful or helpful, not to mention insulting. It's a personal judgement that you cannot possibly have any evidence of.

This is classic troll behaviour for which I have very little patience.

domzy · 03-10-2020, 04:58 PM

i see no problem in you mentioning products you find interesting, but i also see no problem in asking why you think people "owe it to themselves" to check out these products. I'm not sure why you feel you've been insulted by that.
Good luck with your gear search.

kirk1701 · 03-11-2020, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by domzy

i see no problem in you mentioning products you find interesting, but i also see no problem in asking why you think people "owe it to themselves" to check out these products. I'm not sure why you feel you've been insulted by that.
Good luck with your gear search.

What do you think "owe it to yourself" means? It makes no sense to question my motives unless you think I'm strong-arming people. That assumption is insulting to everyone's intelligence.