Automation Panel - Display and Function Triggers

airon · 08-20-2010, 09:35 AM

VOTE for this Feature Request in the issue tracker.

Current design - v45 (April 7th 2014)

I've decided to purge the main documentation of the request and just write down how the panel is supposed to work within the actual illustration.

Time Selection IN and OUT locations are now part of the option panel. The "Auto-Add Plugin" option has been moved to the far right, since it does not require being in a central location at all times.

airon · 08-20-2010, 09:35 AM

Deleted. The design has changed so much this description was no longer accurate.

airon · 08-20-2010, 09:36 AM

Deleted. The design has changed so much this description was no longer accurate.

airon · 08-20-2010, 09:38 AM

Deleted. The design has changed so much this description was no longer accurate.

airon · 08-20-2010, 09:39 AM

Deleted. The design has changed so much this description was no longer accurate.

airon · 08-20-2010, 09:40 AM

Deleted. The design has changed so much this description was no longer accurate.

airon · 08-20-2010, 09:40 AM

Deleted. The design has changed so much this description was no longer accurate.

airon · 08-20-2010, 09:41 AM

Deleted. The design has changed so much this description was no longer accurate.

airon · 08-20-2010, 09:42 AM

Deleted. The design has changed so much this description was no longer accurate.

airon · 08-20-2010, 09:43 AM

Deleted. The design has changed so much this description was no longer accurate.

airon · 08-20-2010, 10:22 AM

Deleted. The design has changed so much this description was no longer accurate.

airon · 08-20-2010, 10:22 AM

Reserved 12

airon · 08-20-2010, 10:23 AM

Reserved 13

RBowlin · 08-20-2010, 04:19 PM

OK, you've done an incredible amount of work here and it's going to take some time for me to work my way through all of this. I will say that I'm not exactly clear on just how preview mode will work. I'm assumming any set of automation data written in preview mode will be racallable from a snapshot list? If so, the ability to qucikly compare different automation runs will be worth it's weight in gold.

As for now, I'll wait until you;ve completed your written remarks before further comment. I will say that I like VERY much what I see.

-RIch

timlloyd · 08-21-2010, 12:08 PM

wow

Guido · 08-21-2010, 12:32 PM

Voted +1 The more I read of it the more I like it! Strong stuff ur putting out here ..Thank you!

I have a friend of mine who does pro foh and monitor live shows and I m going to ask him to look at this...not that I think thats ur intended user, but automating mixes on the fly from a CS seems to cross disciplines IMHO. Hope Im understanding this feature{s} correctly.^^

Guido

Lawrence · 08-21-2010, 12:57 PM

I think the Cubendo automation panel has been requested a few times. This FR is pretty much a copy of that isn't it?

airon · 08-21-2010, 01:25 PM

A lot of it, yes. Some of it is a cross between Nuendo 5 and Protools HD, with some stuff that none of the two have, such as a local snapshot lists, Arm/Disarm panel and Protect.

Cubendo also does not have the Capture facility, direct write functions(you always have to PLAY to punch/write stuff). Nuendos punch log is a little behind what PT can do with snapshots. Protools does not have the Suspend Read/Write stuff and more useful local snapshot capability (1 without an Icon, 8 with the small Icon and 48 with the large. Sells Icons I guess).

Things I did not go for here are Virgin Territory, Auto Punch for Preview and Punch on Play for Preview.

I may however add the Touch-Assist for open plugins, which basically adds all the parameters of the plugin you're messing with to the Preview buffer as soon as you touch one parameter. That helps to write a cleaner slate of a plugin state across a track without the user having to touch everything so the Preview buffer holds it, and you can later overwrite the automation for them for an area. Safer of sorts. I'm still figuring out where to put that.

One aspect of Nuendo 5 I thought was too much to ask at this time was the separate Undo tree for automation. Perhaps Justin, Schwa or Christophe can comment on that. I don't know how much work that would be, but it's quite useful to have a choice tree of automation passes and punches. If possible, yeah let's have it. If not right now, then later is fine too. A good idea will stay a good idea for when the time is right.

airon · 08-21-2010, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guido

Voted +1 The more I read of it the more I like it! Strong stuff ur putting out here ..Thank you!

I have a friend of mine who does pro foh and monitor live shows and I m going to ask him to look at this...not that I think thats ur intended user, but automating mixes on the fly from a CS seems to cross disciplines IMHO. Hope Im understanding this feature{s} correctly.^^

Guido

He can certainly set up snapshots for mixing every song and recall them with ease. He can use the Preview mode to alter the mix on the fly and still be abe to return to the old mix state at the touch of a button by bypassing the Preview mode.

He can also keep ANOTHER setting of the entire board or however much he likes in the Capture buffer. The snapshots just extend that capability. Perhaps we'll be able to load the snapshots with actions.

Lawrence · 08-21-2010, 01:33 PM

Good stuff. I think you write the best FR's I've seen and the only concern I have is that you may go too far. What I mean by that is that my fear is that by going into so much depth with an FR you'll have to (assuming they add small parts here and there) keep circling back for the rest into perpetuity.

You can't really mark something so deep and detailed and diverse as "Done" because they certainly won't do all of that at once if ever... so it will kind of linger there in limbo, the FR, ... forever.

airon · 08-21-2010, 02:09 PM

For this reason I wrote the extensive documentation. It's supposed to be not only a reference but also a way to learn how to use it, and thus show the value of these concepts for the users of Reaper.

Kevin O'Connell once said "If you're not mixing on a Harrison, you're working too hard."

Well, not comparing myself to that excellent artist, I will say this.

If we're not mixing with at least the proposed feature set, WE are working too hard.

It can be done. Let's do it. Here are the goods. It's the best I could do. Go for it.

Reflected · 08-21-2010, 06:28 PM

I think that a vid demostrations will help to gain much more understanding and votes in this case.

Lawrence · 08-21-2010, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airon

Some of it is a cross between Nuendo 5 and Protools HD, with some stuff that none of the two have, such as a local snapshot lists, Arm/Disarm panel ...

That lower left hand corner of the Cubendo panel is for arm/disarm .

airon · 08-22-2010, 01:08 AM

The R and W buttons are for arming the tracks. Reaper has a somewhat fancy setup to accomodate things like activation, envelope display, parameter modulation and arming state, so that had be accounted for.

It's not the most important thing, since the Easier Parameter Activation request takes care of the setup and the Suspend Read and Write section bypass stuff effectively, but for performance reasons, that only Cockos can tell me are true or not, I thought it necessary to let the user be able to disarm and arm entire sections across all tracks in one go. It's also another way of taking things in and out of automation recording for good.

Maybe one of our Cockos gentlemen can tell us whether or not this worry about performance is warranted or not. However, they might reserve judgement of that for when they've done what they've wanted to do with Reaper v4 to the right degree.

airon · 08-22-2010, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reflected

I think that a vid demostrations will help to gain much more understanding and votes in this case.

Well what do you know. I just made a start on that here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q88Xsu40EM

airon · 08-24-2010, 11:07 PM

Time to bump this.

I'm trying to figure out where to put a new function in to the panel called "Touch Plugin". It mimics what "Touch Assist" does in Nuendo, in that what you switch on the Preview mode, if you touch one parameter of a plugin, all of its parameters are placed in the Preview buffer. This makes it much easier to write a plugin-wide changed state across your target area.

airon · 09-01-2010, 11:41 AM

Bump.

airon · 09-06-2010, 01:35 PM

Bumped.

airon · 09-08-2010, 08:47 AM

Another bump.

Anyone have some more ideas they want to contribute ?

airon · 09-16-2010, 03:31 AM

Bumped again.

Tallisman · 09-16-2010, 08:21 AM

This is phenomenal work Airon. I voted in favour, and I'd be happy with this implemented part and parcel. My brain is too tiny to imagine improvements!

nicely done. I hope the Dev team makes good note of this for 4...

Mr. Data · 09-16-2010, 09:11 AM

Hey Arion, You did a lot of good work here!

One can hardly overlook the possibilities it gives to simplify work. I share Lawrence's thoughts about this being implemented in one step. We'll see.

Maybe you have a look at your post No. 5 again; There seems to be an error. As I read it, the left and right half of the Copy button would do exactly the same. But as I understand it the right half should do the opposite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by airon

1.3.4 Copy

This is actually two buttons. The left half will copy the contents of the Capture buffer to the Preview buffer. The right half will copy the contents of the Capture buffer to the Preview buffer. This can be used to continue experimenting with settings in Preview mode, that were aquired with the Capture function elsewhere in the session for example.

However, Great work, man!

-Data

strunkdts · 09-16-2010, 09:15 AM

This is huge, and to be honest I havent read it all yet, but before I do I just wish I could hit record - do my thing - and Reaper record every last movement, tweak, wiggle and bit of it.

I dont understand the big deal of the oldskool check list. Atleast give me an "ALL" option, then I can work backwards and delete the tracks that are empty.

Apart from that.... Love the work, Cockos!

captain caveman · 09-16-2010, 12:42 PM

Excellent work as always Airon!

I was always a bit annoyed that Nuendo got the Preview mode whilst Cubase users didn't. It'd be great to get it into Reaper.

The thing that excites me about the Preview stuff is the potential to use it for experimenting with dynamic automation passes. I don't think this request highlights that possibility, instead focusing on collection and writing of (apparently) static parameter values.

So as a music guy, that's what would be important to me.

I'd like to see the SWS Snapshots work getting expanded upon with this though through integration into v4 rather than it getting left on the sideline. At the moment it can't store or recall any automation, but if it did it would be wonderful.

airon · 09-16-2010, 03:55 PM

Thanks for pointing out the mistake there Mr.Data. Fixed it.

Capturing entire passes would be nice, yeah. That's a Harrison feature :P .

Some folks have suggested we use an automtion-item take system for this. Nuendo 5 has an undo-branch system just for the automation. Perhaps one of those could be handy.

I'll try to find out how the Harrison consoles implement this. They seem to have the best grasp on this.

From what I know so far, they keep these complete passes as alternate data that you can use instead of the existing automation at any time, even switching between passes on the fly to check out your alternative mix of a certain spot.

I'm thinking this could be done by capturing either all touched stuff, all active or all active&armed parameters in a time selection on all/selected/group of tracks. Reaper would need a Bin or other list window to keep those automation passes handy.

So things like making multiple sweeps of filters could become possible. Hell, if the data could be examined in an automation take editor, you could use only parts of it too.

Maybe that'll give the developers an incentive to get started on the automation system as it is presented here in the first place, since doing really new stuff Reaper-style seems to be their thing more so than simply copying the best methods from other DAWs.