Old 12-19-2015, 11:18 AM   #41
zeekat
Human being with feelings
 
zeekat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Polandia
Posts: 3,578
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladerunner View Post
It's a lie. Nostalgia isn't good for you...
Nostalgia was better in the 70s, there's no true nostalgia anymore
__________________
AM bient, rund funk and heavy meteo
my bandcamp+youtubings
zeekat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2015, 11:31 AM   #42
ReaperMadness
Human being with feelings
 
ReaperMadness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Great Lakes, N. A.
Posts: 1,872
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeekat View Post
Nostalgia was better in the 70s, there's no true nostalgia anymore
Catch 22: You're nostalgic for nostalgia.
__________________


New Music: = Mourning Marrs =
ReaperMadness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2015, 12:02 PM   #43
themixtape
Human being with feelings
 
themixtape's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,199
Default

Dry-ass drums. Cover the heads with rags and tape or whatever. Very little room mics/room.

Rhodes piano, wurly piano, clean guitar production.

Make whatever you want, but those are some truly simple tips to get that "70s" sound.
__________________
FREE copyright-safe/DMCA-safe music for Twitch/Kick streamers, classrooms, waiting rooms (playlists on all streaming platforms):
https://tinyurl.com/copyrightsafemusic
themixtape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2015, 01:13 PM   #44
ginormous
Human being with feelings
 
ginormous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Central US
Posts: 467
Default

Having witnessed the 70s as a beginning musician, I can say the nostalgia, while heartfelt, can be somewhat misplaced.

It wasn't all tie-dye, platform shoes, bell bottoms and hair (long of Afro). Some of that was merciless.

No auto-tune: singing and/or playing take after take, until you were raw.

No comping (at least, not as we know it today): if one person hit a clam, the whole take was tossed. Live playing was a crapshoot, and tracking was expensive. Leakage meant that even if the mistake was punched, you'd still have a ghost of it on somebody's track.

Smoking of tobacco or various other substances in the studio: if somebody coughed or got the giggles, we'd have to stop.

Sexual/romantic permissiveness: see Fleetwood Mac (Buckingham-Nicks era).

Nasty studios: I never want to see shag carpet on any surface again, floors, walls or ceiling. Feels like playing inside an anechoic chamber, not to mention all the trapped smells of everyone participating in the above.
ginormous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2015, 01:33 PM   #45
bladerunner
Human being with feelings
 
bladerunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,846
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Sun View Post
But as an idea-historic statement,
I 99% agree with you
Yes that's how I meant it really. There's plenty of music I like from those times but it tends to be more from the underground side of things.
__________________
Mastering from £30 per track \\\
Facebook \\\ #masteredbyloz
bladerunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2015, 01:38 PM   #46
morgon
Human being with feelings
 
morgon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: 'straya
Posts: 9,409
Default

Last night I listened to top 20 of 1975, I was kinda transfixed as I'd never worn out my appreciation for great songs ie never listened to stuff til I was sick of it which gives a whole lotta music value over time. In many places of work the radio plays out the hits to the last, where I worked I was fortunately in a position to avoid that.

The individual character of the songs struck me, different genres etc Left me wishing I could do something that good.

Some of modern pop stuff is good too imo but its over conformity does me in every time, the arrangements, contrived warbles blah blah ok enough already, old man needs to go lie down now...
morgon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2015, 01:56 PM   #47
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
Default

Quote:
In many places of work the radio plays out the hits to the last, where I worked I was fortunately in a position to avoid that.
OT: Back when I used to rebuild speaker drivers etc. I worked with an Russian immigrant named Alex. Wonderful fellow and I learned an awful lot from that great soul. There was a radio station that only played songs from the 30s and 40s, I hated it because I was a young and hip rocker at the time. He loved it though so I had to sit there and listen to it 8 hours a day 5 days a week.

As time went by I started noticing things in that music. Melodies and movements and riffs etc. Oh.... That's where the Beatles got this and where Zeppelin got that and so on and so on. It was basically an anthology of the roots of everything I liked all tucked away in music I thought I hated and made fun of previously. Though I can't recall the exact ones now, some were riffs that 20 or 30 years later turned out to be some heavy rock or metal riff. Just goes to show there are influences and golden nuggets in all of it where often times it is cross genre where one genre borrows from another such as a zeppelin riff coming from a 40's show tune for example.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
karbomusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2015, 01:58 PM   #48
bladerunner
Human being with feelings
 
bladerunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,846
Default

No one tells it better than filthy frank.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcmylxQ0ma4
__________________
Mastering from £30 per track \\\
Facebook \\\ #masteredbyloz
bladerunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2015, 02:01 PM   #49
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladerunner View Post
None of them are better/worse but each of them have something worthwhile the others don't, seek that out.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
karbomusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2015, 02:53 PM   #50
Jae.Thomas
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
And there we have it, Jason takes the usual road of anyone stating anything outside his generation must = trashing his generation. You do know I had to go 'back' to 60s and 70s myself correct? Of course I visited the 30s, 40s and 50s as well and those guys had 'talent' too. You may also notice I didn't trash yours, I was offering up stuff to be appreciated and learned from as a musician, when it occurred is only a marker for study, nothing more.
you are really blowing up everything im saying here out of proportion. wow. Must be nice, this narrative you've made up. Maybe write a script. Sell it.
Jae.Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2015, 03:42 PM   #51
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
you are really blowing up everything im saying here out of proportion. wow. Must be nice, this narrative you've made up. Maybe write a script. Sell it.
It may have been a little direct, but it was accurate enough at the time. If it sounded harsh, it wasn't intentional, just getting the point across. Take care.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
karbomusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2015, 04:49 PM   #52
Jae.Thomas
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
It may have been a little direct, but it was accurate enough at the time. If it sounded harsh, it wasn't intentional, just getting the point across. Take care.
no, you've actually gotten really offended and made up a story. It was really interesting. Have fun with that. It's pretty astonishing. My only quip was with the usage of the word talent in the first place, and I was mainly kidding around. I can see you take that very seriously, and that's fine. Maybe something is wrong today. Dont want to bother you, but this was a fairly shocking interchange. lol .
Jae.Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2015, 05:21 PM   #53
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
My only quip was with the usage of the word talent in the first place, and I was mainly kidding around..
No, that's your old trick, make a pissy remark then hide behind kidding if someone calls you out. If you are kidding around say so up front.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
karbomusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2015, 05:34 PM   #54
Jae.Thomas
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
No, that's your old trick, make a pissy remark then hide behind kidding if someone calls you out. If you are kidding around say so up front.
yes, I must put a disclaimer in front of everything. Smileys just don't do it. And now you're getting personal about it. This really must have touched a nerve.

Spoiler alert: I love the fucking 70s, you dolt.

Keep going, man - it's quite interesting.
Jae.Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2015, 05:38 PM   #55
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
yes, I must put a disclaimer in front of everything. Smileys just don't do it. And now you're getting personal about it. This really must have touched a nerve.

Spoiler alert: I love the fucking 70s, you dolt.

Keep going, man - it's quite interesting.
Did I call you a name somewhere? I said I was being sincere in the other post and I was albeit direct and a little pointed. The entire point was not to be so dismissive in the first place but you keep being pissy. Either way as I said before I always thought you were normally an open minded guy and you didn't come off as such earlier; one of those days I guess. I wasn't trying to throw rocks at you but get you to think. Peace.

FWIW: It could have been ANY decade man.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.

Last edited by karbomusic; 12-19-2015 at 06:06 PM.
karbomusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2015, 08:13 PM   #56
Russ1642
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Alberta
Posts: 17
Default

Nothing is stopping you from buying a bunch of 70's era equipment other than money. You'll also need some 70's drugs and most of those are still around.
Russ1642 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2015, 08:40 PM   #57
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,745
Default

Humm, well since my whole career was from the early 60s on through to the 90s, and even creeping into the 2000s (and I'm still kicking today), I felt inclined to at least say something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladerunner View Post
When I look at music in a historical way - and of course, based on my own taste - I think popular music took a sharp nosedive during the 60's that continued right through the 70's - it became more and more simplified, distilled - it closed the mind - became hedonistic only - rather than opened it.
Hi bladerunner, you know I like you a lot, but I'm not sure what you mean here, if anything it took a little nose dive back in the mid 50s. That's kind of when the 3 chord songs came along, although the 4th minor chord was also popular at the time (example: C, Am, F, G) . That's what was popular, but that don't mean it the only thing happening.

My dad was a musician back in the 30s and early 40s, he even had his own music radio broadcast out of Minot ND, which they did in real time, heh heh. At any rate I was born in 1943 and grew up listening to the Big Band Jazz records that were available at the time. I know that influenced me a lot, as well as most of the good musicians I played with in the 60s and especially in the 70s. I'm talking about real working musicians.

Every band I played in through out the 60s and 70s, basically played it all. Although the music at the time that was being played on the radio, was predominantly the Elvis Presleys of the day, there was still lots of diverse music being played, not only on the radio, but in the clubs, including the big band stuff. The only difference was that the bands were mostly 4, 5, and 6 piece, so they improvised it, heh heh, that was the fun part of the job.

No I don't think the music took a nose dive in the 60s, it just kind of changed from being a big band into a smaller band. But if you go into the 70s you've got, McCoy Tyner, Charles Mingus, Keith Jarrett, Miles Davis, Weather Report, Chick Corea, John McLaughlin, Al Di Meola, Jimi Hendrix, Larry Coryell, Frank Zappa, Joe Zawinul, Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock, the absolutely great Wayne Shorter, Jaco Pastorius, Stanley Clarke, and who can forget Stevie Wonder. Along with all those, you've got all the one's that have already been mentioned here, the Eagles, Doobie Brothers, etc, etc. And there are many more that excape me right now.

I admit, that was my time, but I think it had the most diverse music of any time before or after then, and it required some of the greatest of musicians. It's been a long time since I've heard anything to measure up to that, although I certainly haven't heard everything being done today.

And the 70s was not only a great time for music, that's when the real acoustical world developed for the studios.

Last edited by Tod; 12-19-2015 at 09:53 PM.
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 12:41 AM   #58
suleiman
Human being with feelings
 
suleiman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 5,646
Default

Hard to argue with the names Tod quoted !
My own classics decade was the 80's, especially when many abndoned blues rock foundations for greener pastures......glen branca , husker du, black flag etc
__________________
-------------------------

Salamat
suleiman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 01:37 AM   #59
Andywanders
Human being with feelings
 
Andywanders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,113
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zappazapper View Post
The musicians in the 50's-80's-ish grew up in a generation where taking piano lessons was a rather standard part of childhood education, where singing in the church choir was an expected obligation to your community, where musical education in school was based on achievement and not simply participation... music today is crap because musicians today are crap... everybody wants a pat on the back for not being able to read music, not being able to play off of a numeric chord chart (i.e. "I VI II V in A"), not being able to harmonize vocally, and more than anything, not willing to put any time or effort into improving themselves because that would mean "shaming one's uniqueness"... musicians today aren't talented at music: they're cool popular people who have decided that their preferred social shtick is "musician", so they learn 4 chords on the guitar, grow long hair or a beard, and go play sensitive songs at the local bar that serves locally brewed organic walnut beer or something, and have sex with equally dingy college girls... there's always one thing missing - good songs... vocal lines that you catch yourself humming at work... that's what the 70's had... ACTUAL musicians making ACTUAL music... not this pathetic synthesis/social currency that goes on today...
Well said!
__________________
Some of My Songs

Andy M. VST
Andywanders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 03:47 AM   #60
bladerunner
Human being with feelings
 
bladerunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,846
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Humm, well since my whole career was from the early 60s on through to the 90s, and even creeping into the 2000s (and I'm still kicking today), I felt inclined to at least say something.

Hi bladerunner, you know I like you a lot, but I'm not sure what you mean here, if anything it took a little nose dive back in the mid 50s. That's kind of when the 3 chord songs came along, although the 4th minor chord was also popular at the time (example: C, Am, F, G) . That's what was popular, but that don't mean it the only thing happening.

My dad was a musician back in the 30s and early 40s, he even had his own music radio broadcast out of Minot ND, which they did in real time, heh heh. At any rate I was born in 1943 and grew up listening to the Big Band Jazz records that were available at the time. I know that influenced me a lot, as well as most of the good musicians I played with in the 60s and especially in the 70s. I'm talking about real working musicians.

Every band I played in through out the 60s and 70s, basically played it all. Although the music at the time that was being played on the radio, was predominantly the Elvis Presleys of the day, there was still lots of diverse music being played, not only on the radio, but in the clubs, including the big band stuff. The only difference was that the bands were mostly 4, 5, and 6 piece, so they improvised it, heh heh, that was the fun part of the job.

No I don't think the music took a nose dive in the 60s, it just kind of changed from being a big band into a smaller band. But if you go into the 70s you've got, McCoy Tyner, Charles Mingus, Keith Jarrett, Miles Davis, Weather Report, Chick Corea, John McLaughlin, Al Di Meola, Jimi Hendrix, Larry Coryell, Frank Zappa, Joe Zawinul, Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock, the absolutely great Wayne Shorter, Jaco Pastorius, Stanley Clarke, and who can forget Stevie Wonder. Along with all those, you've got all the one's that have already been mentioned here, the Eagles, Doobie Brothers, etc, etc. And there are many more that excape me right now.

I admit, that was my time, but I think it had the most diverse music of any time before or after then, and it required some of the greatest of musicians. It's been a long time since I've heard anything to measure up to that, although I certainly haven't heard everything being done today.

And the 70s was not only a great time for music, that's when the real acoustical world developed for the studios.
Yes - I'm (over) generalising here and I'm mainly referring to the poster boys - Beatles, Stones, Dylan, Fleetwood Mac etc. My formative years were the 80's but I mainly listened to 60's/70's stuff because that's what would be playing in the house. My Dad thinks life began and ended in the 60's pretty much (lol) and he wasn't very tolerant if I played contemporary music of any sort. It was either 'turn it down' or a lecture on why whatever I was listening to was rubbish or 'infantile' as he sometimes put it. Part of the way I think of a lot of 60's stuff is influenced by this general negative experience so yeah, I'm probably being a bit unfair here.

I always had a musical brain before I developed an interest in actually writing and playing and I could spot the same chord sequences come up over and over again in the pop stuff. It seemed to me that before the 60's there was more variation and that it started to become that way again in the 80's - more minor key pop songs and such. Still, I'm probably over generalising again but that's how it seemed.
__________________
Mastering from £30 per track \\\
Facebook \\\ #masteredbyloz
bladerunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 05:11 AM   #61
David Else
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 610
Default

I have read a lot of similar threads on the subject of why music sucks now compared to the past. I can summarize the replies:

- Yes it was better in the past, just listen to X vs Y examples
- No, you are now old and every generation thinks its music was the best

Getting an objective answer is very hard, but I think I am right in saying that subjectively most people agree modern music is just not as good. I think that is the general consensus.

How about this as an explanation: Society is not as good, and that is the reason. Governments and businesses merged together and now people can't even imagine the future being different from today. Since some time around 2000 things went into decline fast. The world needs some kind of 'new 60's' revolution to shake things up and then creativity, optimism and excitement could return.

The best music today is all backwards looking. Something like Synthwave is awesome, but it is still based on the 80's look and feel. What is the look and feel of today?! An Iphone and a Hipster. Enslaving fashionable technology built in sweatshops and an empty apolitical youth movement.

Yes, of course music in the 70's was a million times 'better' than the dross in the charts today. Why? Very heavy social/political/technological reasons!
__________________
----------> Debian Linux Distribution = Computing Joy & Freedom <----------
David Else is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 05:31 AM   #62
bladerunner
Human being with feelings
 
bladerunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,846
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Else View Post
Getting an objective answer is very hard
It's not hard - it's completely impossible because objectivity doesn't really factor into anything that involves taste.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Else View Post
How about this as an explanation: Society is not as good, and that is the reason. Governments and businesses merged together and now people can't even imagine the future being different from today. Since some time around 2000 things went into decline fast. The world needs some kind of 'new 60's' revolution to shake things up and then creativity, optimism and excitement could return.
Hmm.. can of worms potential here. Society is always reflected in culture. One could argue that's a huge part of what art is - a reflection, however distorted. And the 60's thing - that was pseudo revolution at best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Else View Post
The best music today is all backwards looking.
No, the most FAMILIAR (aka 'pop' music) is ALWAYS backwards looking because it's not possible for originality (if there is such a thing) to ever be familiar enough to sell out the tried, tested, beaten to death formulas that work on the average listener. Most people reject change from the already very familiar at first - takes a good few years of exposure to something to start accepting it as a constant - a normality. I've worked out that it takes around 10 to 15 years or so for 'underground' techniques and ideas to make it into the mainstream. Production techniques in electronic music usually find their way into mainstream pop at this kind of rate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Else View Post
Yes, of course music in the 70's was a million times 'better' than the dross in the charts today. Why? Very heavy social/political/technological reasons!
Simply not true!
__________________
Mastering from £30 per track \\\
Facebook \\\ #masteredbyloz
bladerunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 06:22 AM   #63
David Else
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 610
Default

bladerunner: If getting an objective answer to if music was better in the past is 'impossible' then your final reply to 'music was better in the 70's' of 'Simply not true!' is highly subjective
__________________
----------> Debian Linux Distribution = Computing Joy & Freedom <----------
David Else is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 06:47 AM   #64
bladerunner
Human being with feelings
 
bladerunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,846
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Else View Post
bladerunner: If getting an objective answer to if music was better in the past is 'impossible' then your final reply to 'music was better in the 70's' of 'Simply not true!' is highly subjective
Haha good one
__________________
Mastering from £30 per track \\\
Facebook \\\ #masteredbyloz
bladerunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 06:59 AM   #65
Hoodee
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 403
Default

I wonder if in 20-30 years from now on, someone, somewhere on the internet will start a thread with the words : "Gosh, I wish 2010's music was still around, those people really knew how to make good tunes."
Hoodee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 07:10 AM   #66
bladerunner
Human being with feelings
 
bladerunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,846
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoodee View Post
I wonder if in 20-30 years from now on, someone, somewhere on the internet will start a thread with the words : "Gosh, I wish 2010's music was still around, those people really knew how to make good tunes."
Of course they will!!!!!

That's my whole point.. It has nothing to do with music being 'better' - it's to do with an overall mentality - an outlook on life in general that's mainly to do with the concept of nostalgia itself. Nostalgia is - partly - an inability to apply the same level of attention/interest/investigation in the things that makes one tick as one gets older. I'm not sure it's the right place to get into this but I have several wacko theories about what makes a person become 'old' (I'm a big Alan Moore fan if that gives anyone a clue). I think it starts in the mind and then affects the body. A heavy leaning on nostalgia is an indication that one has become tired and weary in their mind in general - they no longer have as much desire to seek out things that are new and exciting... they're just gettin' old basically..
__________________
Mastering from £30 per track \\\
Facebook \\\ #masteredbyloz
bladerunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 07:33 AM   #67
Hoodee
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 403
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladerunner View Post
Of course they will!!!!!

That's my whole point.. It has nothing to do with music being 'better' - it's to do with an overall mentality - an outlook on life in general that's mainly to do with the concept of nostalgia itself. Nostalgia is - partly - an inability to apply the same level of attention/interest/investigation in the things that makes one tick as one gets older. I'm not sure it's the right place to get into this but I have several wacko theories about what makes a person become 'old' (I'm a big Alan Moore fan if that gives anyone a clue). I think it starts in the mind and then affects the body. A heavy leaning on nostalgia is an indication that one has become tired and weary in their mind in general - they no longer have as much desire to seek out things that are new and exciting... they're just gettin' old basically..
I'd like to hear more about those theories. It's been a debate subject recently amongst my friends, the concept of nostalgia, what made us feel nostalgic. We were mostly revolving around memories and what triggered them. In the context of music, it's for example a tune that was popular at a certain point in your life that you may not even have linked to anything by the time it was on top of the charts or playing over and over again in your stereo. An example that I gave was male and female pop-groups in the late 90's while my generation was in school. By that time, most of my friends (we were mostly into rock) would consider shameful to sing along to let's say Backstreet Boys, N'Sync or the Spice Girls. Now, just put some vodka and pot on the table, an hour later we'll be al singing along to this :

Hoodee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 07:52 AM   #68
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
Default

Quote:
I'd like to hear more about those theories.
I think he has a point about the 'just getting old' part if one stops learning new things. There are two sides to that though, we are somewhat designed (or it least seemed worthwhile at one point) to learn stuff for a few decades so at some point we can actually start using all that which we can't utilize to it's fullest if we keep stopping and learning aka you never truly graduate. On the other hand, in this stage of our species things are changing so fast that all that knowledge/training goes stale in about a week.

At least musically, I've never been the 'old fart'. I'd happily go out and gig with music that was released last week as soon as I'd go out and gig doing music from the 70s, 80s or 90s. Then again, I'd never be interested in doing a cover gig of 70s tunes - There is much great musicianship and stuff to learn and be influenced by from those but I've long tired from playing them for the most part other than mere study such as how things feel like they feel etc. and why some things that sound like mistakes aren't really mistakes once you dig deeper.

I would also however be just as content jamming on the Ting Tings, Two Door Cinema Club, Phoenix, Goyte, NYPC or Slipnot, Artic Monkeys, Queens of the Stoneage, Kimbra, Macy Gray or Of Monsters and Men because I love music and don't really bucketize it by date, genre, underground or mainstream. Doesn't really matter to me other than understanding it's all valuable with the older stuff having some roots/textbook value in it and the newer stuff that survives will serve the same purpose in the future.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.

Last edited by karbomusic; 12-20-2015 at 08:51 AM.
karbomusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 07:54 AM   #69
Daniovan
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 561
Default

STEVIE WONDER alone makes today´s music ... u no what eye mean
__________________
http://www.soundcloud.com/daniovan/w...ad-3rd-version
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...bandID=1389041
[url]http://www.soundclick.com/paypal/default.cfm?bandID=1389041[/url
Daniovan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 07:54 AM   #70
Icchan
Human being with feelings
 
Icchan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Finland
Posts: 792
Default

Of course one could do an scientific study to the music analyzing the chord structures and song structures etc. and creating some sort of metric for the "complexity" or "musicality" or something and trying to come p with an objective answer, but nobody's bothered to make music analyzing a science yet?
Icchan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 08:12 AM   #71
Hoodee
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 403
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniovan View Post
STEVIE WONDER alone makes today´s music ... u no what eye mean
I see what you did there
Hoodee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 08:49 AM   #72
viscofisy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dalriada
Posts: 13,367
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladerunner View Post
Of course they will!!!!!

That's my whole point.. It has nothing to do with music being 'better' - it's to do with an overall mentality - an outlook on life in general that's mainly to do with the concept of nostalgia itself. Nostalgia is - partly - an inability to apply the same level of attention/interest/investigation in the things that makes one tick as one gets older. I'm not sure it's the right place to get into this but I have several wacko theories about what makes a person become 'old' (I'm a big Alan Moore fan if that gives anyone a clue). I think it starts in the mind and then affects the body. A heavy leaning on nostalgia is an indication that one has become tired and weary in their mind in general - they no longer have as much desire to seek out things that are new and exciting... they're just gettin' old basically..
Of course there's a thing called nostalgia.

But is it only nostalgia that makes Bach or Beethoven "better" than their thousands of later copyists, for example?

One component of music is percieved originality.
The arrival of electric guitars and decent amps was one factor in "originality" in the 60s/70s, and composing new sounding stuff from a previous variety of styles (blues, folk etc) was another.

Those factors don't remain novel forever, and the possibilities for combination and innovation become fewer.
__

If we're talking about "serious" approach to modern music (rather than just stuff designed to be purely commercial) the same process happened in art and literature decades before with Modernism.

The old techniques became too familiar and predictable, and seemed no longer capable for expressing things in a changed world.

That led to fragmentation, focusing on things previously considered peripheral, and a move away from the importance of "plot".

Exactly the same thing has happened in modern music :

Storyline has lost its importance in lyrics, repitition and fragments and loops have become a major focus, and the sounds themselves (ala the importance of the mix over the content, ever more complex synth patches and effects) have largely taken over from variation in melody and chord structure.
viscofisy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 08:54 AM   #73
Time Waster
Human being with feelings
 
Time Waster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Bowral, Australia
Posts: 1,638
Default

My recollection of the 70's is that it was a time of rapid musical development, leading on from the 60's, driven by technological development both of the instruments used and the recording methods. The rapid development drove fashion in such a way that musical styles became 'old hat' very quickly and music only a year or two old was abandoned for the latest and greatest. In contrast I find that the younger generations today have a much broader appreciation of music than we had back in the 70's.

Speaking from a sound design point of view, in the 60's and 70's, musicians were still actually creating new sounds that had never been heard before. It was an exciting time for musical development. Today, with digital recording and sound synthesis we can pretty much make any sound we want to and record it with a very high level of clarity and precision. The downside of this is that we have actually made almost every sound imaginable, and it seems unlikely, to me, that the level of musical development of the 60's and 70's will ever be repeated. Much of the musical development of today revolves around rehashing old sounds in new ways (in ever greater precision). This is a perfectly valid form of musical expression, but we may never be able to return to the excitement of the 70's.

The rehashing of musical sounds and styles actually began with punk in the late 70's and while this is usually seen as a revolt against the increasingly irrelevant glam rock of the day, the punk movement may also have been partly due to the slowing of technological development and the need to start to revisit the past to look for new inspiration.
__________________
Mal, aka The Wasters of Time
Mal's JSFX: ReaRack2 Modular Synth
Time Waster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 09:00 AM   #74
Hoodee
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 403
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Time Waster View Post
The rehashing of musical sounds and styles actually began with punk in the late 70's and while this is usually seen as a revolt against the increasingly irrelevant glam rock of the day, the punk movement may also have been partly due to the slowing of technological development and the need to start to revisit the past to look for new inspiration.
I think you have no idea what the punk movement is really about. And no, The Sex Pistols don't count as punk.
Hoodee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 09:02 AM   #75
Hoodee
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 403
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by viscofisy View Post
Exactly the same thing has happened in modern music :

Storyline has lost its importance in lyrics, repitition and fragments and loops have become a major focus, and the sounds themselves (ala the importance of the mix over the content, ever more complex synth patches and effects) have largely taken over from variation in melody and chord structure.
Isn't it refering to commercial music rather than "serious" music ?
Hoodee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 09:05 AM   #76
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,183
Default

I think one important point that hasn't been made is the loss of the "journeyman" musician.

Back when there were 2 television channels, no computers, internet, arcades, and other myriad distractions, most of us worked a lot, one bar we used to play often went from 9:30-3:30 -- 45 minute sets with 15 minute breaks 7 nights a week.

The baby boomers filled those bars every night.

You got better because you worked a lot.

That's gone now, sadly.
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 09:13 AM   #77
viscofisy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dalriada
Posts: 13,367
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoodee View Post
Isn't it refering to commercial music rather than "serious" music ?
I put serious in inverted commas because I couldn't think of a better word off the cuff

I mean artists aiming for a bit of depth of expression or with insight, rather than just cobbling a few loops together and/or jumping on a bandwagon or hoping to get background music deals on adverts or Sky.

Tom Waits or Boards of Canada as opposed to The Spice Girls, for example.
viscofisy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 09:49 AM   #78
viscofisy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dalriada
Posts: 13,367
Default

You only have to look as far as Reaper forums to see the huge amount of attention payed to what was considered more peripheral in music years ago.

There's an obsession with detail - the minutiae of eq, reverbs, compression; and a not unfounded belief that the mix is what sells the music.

On kvr forum "Instruments" there's endless lengthy discussion over not only the latest soft synths, but patches for those synths, and ever more detailed modulation.

A lot of the empahasis is on the detail of the sound and the production, and those have largely become the content in mainstream music.

__

I think that's an avenue worth exploring, and there's no doubt that much of it is a quest for originality and relevance.

Just because it's worth exploring doesn't mean it'll lead anywhere, or that it'll connect with people to the same extent as music previously did.

For example, James Joyce explored the minutiae of experience and stylistics in his writing, and is considered one of the greatest novelists of the 20th century.

But nearly no-one reads Finnegan's Wake, because by focusing on the previously-peripheral he ended up pretty much up beyond the boundaries of what's readable, in most people's opinion.

He couldn't go back and use the old forms, because he considered they were worn out, and using them would just be repetition or superficial fakery.
viscofisy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 09:57 AM   #79
Hoodee
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 403
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by viscofisy View Post
You only have to look as far as Reaper forums to see the huge amount of attention payed to what was considered more peripheral in music years ago.

There's an obsession with detail - the minutiae of eq, reverbs, compression; and a not unfounded belief that the mix is what sells the music.

On kvr forum "Instruments" there's endless lengthy discussion over not only the latest soft synths, but patches for those synths, and ever more detailed modulation.
Well yeah, it's a forum revolving around a production tool. For a more "content" oriented forum I guess you'd have to look elsewhere. Or at least in the REAPER music/collab subforum. Although I think that section is a ghost town.
Hoodee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 10:04 AM   #80
bladerunner
Human being with feelings
 
bladerunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,846
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by viscofisy View Post
Of course there's a thing called nostalgia.

But is it only nostalgia that makes Bach or Beethoven "better" than their thousands of later copyists, for example?
There's no such thing as 'better' in art. It's just whether you happen to like it or not. I think one of the key things about all human behaviour is the unwillingness to be the 'odd one out' - the one that goes against the majority belief or thought and announces that they like the 'weird' music that everyone else thinks is rubbish (which means, just as much as any other factor, that they're simply unfamiliar with it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by viscofisy View Post
Storyline has lost its importance in lyrics
I've never personally seen 'story' as any sort of important aspect of music anyway so I can't comment directly on whether or not it's lost it's importance. I rarely listen to music to hear the content of lyrics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by viscofisy View Post
repitition and fragments and loops have become a major focus, and the sounds themselves (ala the importance of the mix over the content, ever more complex synth patches and effects) have largely taken over from variation in melody and chord structure.
Yes, hence my comment about 'closing the mind' - hedonism - appealing to the pleasure/chemical side of enjoyment rather than the more thoughtful (having to invest time and multiple listens to 'understand') side. Not necessarily a criticism - an observation just as much.

I think mixing has become more and more about details simply because we now have the tools to do it - not for any other reason whatsoever.
__________________
Mastering from £30 per track \\\
Facebook \\\ #masteredbyloz
bladerunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.