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Old 07-26-2018, 07:19 PM   #81
brainwreck
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I still say though, that I believe a sampled hi-hat can be made to work nearly seamlessly, if a hi-hat
can put out CC4 in a smooth and seamless way.
Sure, as long as the sampler does something useful with the available CC4 values. But it seems to be the case that none of them do at the moment, i.e., they step between a handful of ranges rather than a bunch of them, or rather than applying envelopes for achieving more continuous inbetween states. As ashcat_lt put it earlier in the thread, it is essentially a bit reduction of the number of control change values. The drum samplers are only using 3 bits worth of values (8 values) when there is 7 bits worth of values (128 values) coming in.

If you want to see what can be done with the envelope approach, just drop some copies of a sizzly hi-hat sample on Reaper's timeline and apply some volume envelopes to the samples (not just a simple decay). It can surely be done and automated according to CC4 values. It's just a matter of working out how to best move the envelope points. But I have found that a partially open sample with the right envelope can sound like a convincing closed sample as well as convincing inbetween states. One tip here: For the inbetween states, keep the noise floor intact (as well as any ringing), else the envelopes sound unnatural.
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Old 07-26-2018, 07:45 PM   #82
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Yes, and that's a good point I probably would have figured out on my own eventually.


I think maybe ratio is better. return divided by send. End up with a number between 0 and 1 and multiply that by 127.
I probably wouldn't have thought of that, eventually.

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Though there could be some loss (or gain!) in the system, so you'd probably need a constant "fudge factor" in there along the way. Not all interfaces (you might be surprised how few) will be at unity even with straight wire from output to input.
I think that probably some controls for output and input levels would take care of that well enough, along with some reasonable amount of minimum difference (fudge factor) between output and input. Also, a sample delay would be good here for making sure that output/input cycles are lined up, in case audio interface latency hasn't been compensated for.
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Old 07-27-2018, 07:57 AM   #83
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Search the forums for SMDrums. It has (I think in the first post) a link to download hihats sampled at 127 velocity levels.
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Old 07-27-2018, 12:48 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
If you want to see what can be done with the envelope approach, just drop some copies of a sizzly hi-hat sample on Reaper's timeline and apply some volume envelopes to the samples (not just a simple decay). It can surely be done and automated according to CC4 values. It's just a matter of working out how to best move the envelope points. But I have found that a partially open sample with the right envelope can sound like a convincing closed sample as well as convincing inbetween states. One tip here: For the inbetween states, keep the noise floor intact (as well as any ringing), else the envelopes sound unnatural.
No need to drop anything into Reaper, what you're alluding to is exactly what I did in Kontakt
with the sizzle sample. Kontakt has ahd and ahdsr envelopes that can do all this in real time
with any controller including CC4.

You can also add attack using an ahdsr envelope, I use this on ride cymbals a lot.
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Old 07-27-2018, 01:40 PM   #85
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I think that probably some controls for output and input levels would take care of that well enough, along with some reasonable amount of minimum difference (fudge factor) between output and input. Also, a sample delay would be good here for making sure that output/input cycles are lined up, in case audio interface latency hasn't been compensated for.
If you're building a plugin, it could include a fairly simple calibration routine that could "learn" the top and bottom of the sweep AND the delay needed.

Then again, if your audio buffers are small enough, you could probably do well enough with Parameter Modulation on ReaControlMIDI. Like, those tools are already built, and at least worth a try.
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Old 07-27-2018, 02:03 PM   #86
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No need to drop anything into Reaper, what you're alluding to is exactly what I did in Kontakt
with the sizzle sample. Kontakt has ahd and ahdsr envelopes that can do all this in real time
with any controller including CC4.

You can also add attack using an ahdsr envelope, I use this on ride cymbals a lot.
I didn't know anything about you doing this in kontakt already. In your last post you said that you are convinced that it is possible, so I assumed it was something you were thinking about vs. having already done it.
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Old 07-27-2018, 02:49 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
If you're building a plugin, it could include a fairly simple calibration routine that could "learn" the top and bottom of the sweep AND the delay needed.

Then again, if your audio buffers are small enough, you could probably do well enough with Parameter Modulation on ReaControlMIDI. Like, those tools are already built, and at least worth a try.
I have just been knocking up small things in jsfx so far. That idea could also serve as the basis for a latency measurement and calibration plugin. And maybe the beginnings of something useul for probing the inputs on my roland module to better find out how it responds.
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Old 07-27-2018, 02:51 PM   #88
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I didn't know anything about you doing this in kontakt already. In your last post you said that you are convinced that it is possible, so I assumed it was something you were thinking about vs. having already done it.
Thanks brainwreck, I was wondering why you didn't seem to understand what I was talking about.

Yeah, when I first posted that mp3 with the sizzle sample, that was just to show how possible it is. Then I
further went on to say that I think between the right samples along with some ahd adjustments in between, a
good working midi hi-hat can be created.

With the right sampled and programmed hi-hat, and every CC4 value either selects another sample or makes an
adjustment in between samples, I think a real hi-hat can be made to sound and feel real to an e-kit player.

Right now it's just a concept, but I'm anxious to try it out.

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Old 07-27-2018, 03:08 PM   #89
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Tod, I only remember you posting a sample with some pitch modulation applied, when we were discussing the pitch change of very tightly closed acoustic hi-hats. I must have missed that other stuff.
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