Old 11-12-2018, 10:02 AM   #1
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Default 6 or 8 INCH

If you didn't think this was about monitors, shame on YOU. I am getting older and my ears will not last as long mixing. They fatigue way faster than they use to and HURT!

So I have done some steps to cut down on ringing and pain. I have been working with a ear doctor as well. But I still fatigue much faster than I use to. I started on 10 inch in the 90s and moved to 8 inch shortly after.

My studio is definitely project studio size. It's the smallest I have had. If I remember correct, it is 12x18. I am set up on the long wall (I know, i know, trust me though, it works and sounds better). My room is very tuned and treated.

I am also the closest I have ever been to my monitors as well. I can't use stands or I will be taken out of the sweet spot. The room can't be treated to fix it either if I do that.

If i am setting in mixing position, back straight, looking forward. If I point my hands out at the center of my monitors, I am probably 1 foot away from the end of my middle finger. I am 5'11 with long fingers.

I record classic rock, blues, country, and acoustic style. I have been dabbling in string trio and quartets.

If I were to move to a 6/6.5, would this help my EARS? I want to do less wear and tear. And I would like my ears to last longer. I mix at low volumes as is. So I am not one of those guys. I try and always mix around 60 to 65db.
With 6 inch I am thinking they might actually perform better at the volume I am mixing at. And I think they would be easier on my ears. Would I be making a big downgrade? I know they won't go as low as 8s and the cross over will be different. But I almost think my mixes would improve along With my ears.

Or would I be making a down GRADE? Would my mix suffer some?


;tldr Will 6 inch monitors improve ear stamina. Would going to 6/6.5 make my mix SUFFER? I mix at 60db in a 12x18 room on the Long wall.
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Old 11-12-2018, 10:20 AM   #2
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I think the main thing that is going to matter on fatiguing your ears is not size but overall volume within the most sensitive spectrum of your hearing. So it seems that for your situation there is no major pros or cons to monitor size.
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Old 11-12-2018, 11:12 AM   #3
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Yeah... I don't see what woofer size has anything to do with you hearing issues, unless you are particularly sensitive to low frequencies. Even then, you can adjust-down the bass. I've got a pair of 15-inch subwoofers in my living room but I almost never crank the volume up to the point where I need anything like that...

Quote:
So I am not one of those guys. I try and always mix around 60 to 65db.
I assume you have an SPL meter?

Some people get ringing in their ears (Tinnitus] that's totally unrelated to loudness, but if you're getting pain at those levels, you've got an unusual condition.

------------------------------------------
To me, anything less than 8-inches isn't really a "woofer"... There are lots of factors that go into speaker design and a bigger woofer doesn't necessarily mean more, or better, bass. But, at some point you run into "physics". i.e. You can't get accurate reproduction of a bass guitar or a kick-drum from a small woofer.

------------------------------------------
You can do a LOT of "work" at low levels... But, if you don't check at louder volumes may miss noise or other lower-level defects.

And when you get to the final mixing or mastering stage, it's a good idea to listen at check around 85dB* because at low levels the Equal Loudness Curves will throw-off your perception of bass and you'll mix-in too much bass. (Although, you may be able to train your ears for a good frequency balance at lower levels.)




* Bob Katz suggests this is the preferred listening level for most people.

Last edited by DVDdoug; 11-12-2018 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 11-12-2018, 02:14 PM   #4
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Old 11-12-2018, 03:12 PM   #5
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Bigger is better. No need to go over 8", though.

Smaller woofers will suffer more in the low end and produce by-products that are tiresome to your ears. No way to escape that, unless you use specially designed other solutions, like feedback from accelerometers. And there are none left on the market, AFAIK. Too expensive...
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Old 11-13-2018, 01:28 AM   #6
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cyrano: I went from a pair of Yamaha powered 8" and a pair of Tannoy 6" to a pair of Unity Audio The Rock IIs 5".

Sometimes it is just a case of using a better monitor.
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Old 11-13-2018, 02:36 AM   #7
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Yes, Ivan, it can be done. But you went from a 100$ speaker to a 1.000$ speaker...

The Rock IIs doesn't do much below 60 Hz. That's fine, if you mix rock. Hence the name. Fortunately, that's what the OP does.
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Old 11-13-2018, 02:57 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
I think the main thing that is going to matter on fatiguing your ears is not size but overall volume within the most sensitive spectrum of your hearing. So it seems that for your situation there is no major pros or cons to monitor size.
This is my thought as well.
Monitors are different. Some are softer on the ears than others.
You need to state a budget.

I remember trying some Sonodynes. They felt soft to my ears.
I have some Focal Alpha 50 now. I don't think I'll describe them as soft.

I'll look into other factors first though, like listening-level and breaks/work-hours.

A story: Once, when I was studding to be a kind of nurse, I had problems reading my books. I had problems focusing on the words. So, I went to an eye-doctor, to see if there was something wrong with my sight. Turned out my eyes were perfect.
I quit reading those books
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Old 11-13-2018, 02:58 AM   #9
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I would advice to train yourself to work mainly on frequency-limited speakers, and to use the mains only occasionally. Also, mix the majority of the time freq-limited AND in mono, on one speaker. This method does wonders for fatigue, for me anyway. The increase in focus and phase-coherence will allow for much lower listening volume and in the end, better decisions. Ymmv. If you have a professionally tuned room, this does not apply. But very few people have.

Also, NEVER listen to people telling you you need to mix at 85db. That's just ridiculous. You might want to CHECK the mix at 85, but make sure you do the majority of the mix at a reasonable level, like 60-65 db or quieter.

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Old 11-13-2018, 04:33 AM   #10
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@ramses: sounds very sensible.

I suffer from hyperacusis. Especially in the region of 7 kHz. Not all speakers are equal to me. Something I can't see in the frequency plot, as most speakers are incredibly flat.

I think fatigue is rather personal.
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Old 11-13-2018, 08:10 AM   #11
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Some interesting thoughts here.

cyrano, I never heard before of accelerometers being used in speakers. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, though. Audio people can be very obsessive/nutty/inventive/genius.
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Old 11-13-2018, 08:27 AM   #12
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EDIT: crap, I just reread your post and saw that your room is treated. Oops. I’ll leave the post because maybe there’s something that would be helpful to someone.

EDIT 2: lol after reading the last sentence of your post I’m thinking the thread title should be “8 inches too big? Would 6” improve my stamina?

I think that the biggest thing you could do would be treat the hell out of your room. cram it full of bass traps, and make sure they’re the legit and not the foam crap.

The main reason is that it will increase the clarity of your monitoring so much that you will be able to work at considerably lower volumes. That was the first thing I noticed when I treated my room.


The other thing is that, even at the same volume coming out of the speakers, it will less fatiguing because the sound won’t be bouncing around and hitting your ears over and over again (as much).

Also your mixes will improve

If you already have treated your room, disregard me and carry on. By the way I work with some big ol 8 inchers and I don’t feel like there’s too much of a difference from the 6.5 pair I have. If you are working with cheaper large monitors, you can plug the ports which will clean up the low end a little at the cost of some low end extension. Also. Try to get them at least a foot away from the wall, even in a small room. Furthermore, being ocd about their placement and making sure you are in the sweet spot and that the height is just right will further help you out.

In general, the worse your listening environment, the more you’re going to crank it because you feel like you can’t hear it.


Good luck 8)
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Old 11-13-2018, 12:49 PM   #13
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One aspect of speakers which has a significant effect on ear fatigue and which I think no one mentioned is, directivity. Speakers that are more focused forward are going to be harder on the ears than speakers with a higher dispersion pattern. Headphones for example, can be very fatiguing on the ears.
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Old 11-13-2018, 02:23 PM   #14
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Yes, Ivan, it can be done. But you went from a 100$ speaker to a 1.000$ speaker...

The Rock IIs doesn't do much below 60 Hz. That's fine, if you mix rock. Hence the name. Fortunately, that's what the OP does.
According to Unity, the Mk2 version goes quite a bit lower than 60 & judging on what mine will do, I believe them.

Oh and just in the interests of real accuracy (yeah I know.. ) the tannoys cost me 150 UK pounds each fifteen years ago, the Yamahas 100 each used about 5 years ago. Funnily enough I got a HUGE deal on the Rock IIs. 1700 the pair!
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Old 11-13-2018, 06:11 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
Some interesting thoughts here.

cyrano, I never heard before of accelerometers being used in speakers. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, though. Audio people can be very obsessive/nutty/inventive/genius.

A number of brands have experimented with it. The only brand that stuck with it, is Philips. Sony did just two models. A number of highend studio monitor manufacturers still do, but use a second winding on the speaker's voice coil to get a feedback signal. One even used light.

Philips called the system "Motional Feedback", or MFB. They also produced a studio monitor with MFB, the 545, widely used in broadcasting in Europe.

Besides permitting lower bass from a smaller speaker, it also makes the speaker less sensitive for IM distortion resulting from room reflections.
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Old 11-13-2018, 09:52 PM   #16
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I do 90% of my mix work at very quiet levels, like 25-40 dB SPL. Why? Because the dynamic sensitivity of hearing improves at very low levels. I can reliably tell differences of 0.2 dB at 30 dBSPL in the midrange. As the SPL increases to 80, that threshold also increases. For me, the differential goes up to 2 dB.

I happen to live (and mix) in a very quiet place. If I go outside it's quiet enough to make out highway traffic noise happening 2 miles away. So this might not be possible for everyone; but it works for me.

I've been using these super low monitoring levels for about 10 years, and it makes mixing easier, faster and much less fatiguing. Maybe give it a try...
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Old 11-14-2018, 03:11 AM   #17
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Philbo: Sad. Remember when MY ears were that good. Been a while.
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Old 11-30-2018, 02:10 PM   #18
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Thanks so much for all the info guys. I love this forum so much. You will also find that I am the type of person who ask a question, and then becomes super dumb on the subject.
I learned this by watching other people ask questions and then becoming experts on the subject right after they ask the question.

Someone had mentioned how focus and direct the sound is on studio monitors. And it is. That is why I thought going down to a 6.5 or 6 would maybe change things. My thought was the sound might be even more focused allowing me to work at a even lower volume.

So let me ask this, why different sizes in the first place then? Is it really just for frequency response?

Is the frequency crossover better or worse at different sizes?

Why would someone want Twin 6.5 with Tweeter instead of a single 6.5 and tweeter?
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Old 11-30-2018, 02:40 PM   #19
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Why would someone want Twin 6.5 with Tweeter instead of a single 6.5 and tweeter?
More surface area hitting the air. Bose 901s have 8 front facing 4" drivers. Not to say those are very good speakers, but the idea is that you get a lot of surface area.

That said, I have both a small set of Yamaha 5" monitors with a Yamaha sub and a pair of 8" JBLs with no sub (actually I can switch the sub in/out on both sets with my C-Control) and by far I prefer using the 8" with no sub.

The Yamahas are more neutral, and I use my C-Control to A/B with them, but I can get my mixes in the ball park with the JBLs and they don't give me ear fatigue.
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Old 11-30-2018, 02:50 PM   #20
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6 or 6.5" (or smaller) with a sub would be my preference. I tend to prefer the sound of smaller speakers for some reason.
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Old 11-30-2018, 04:16 PM   #21
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There are many engineering trade offs in loudspeaker design. Plenty of engineering problems with a second bass/mid unit, as well as the potential benefits.

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Why would someone want Twin 6.5 with Tweeter instead of a single 6.5 and tweeter?
Lower driver excursion required for the same SPL, lowering distortion.

Higher sensitivity (louder for less power input).

D'appolito arrangements (tweeter in centre) gives great on axis response, and worse off axis.

2.5 way - extra bass helper plus full mid/bass as per two way - baffle step compensation for bass quality.
2 way D'appolito (see above).

3 way - discrete bass mid and treble so no large movements required from mid driver lowering distortion. A smaller (broader dispersion) midrange can be chosen but your example of twin 6.5" drivers also exist.
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Old 11-30-2018, 04:27 PM   #22
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So let me ask this, why different sizes in the first place then? Is it really just for frequency response?
Yes, it's mainly about frequency response. Plus low frequencies need POWER and you need to move lots of air.

Why do they make monitors with small woofers? Or, why do people buy small monitors? ….Mostly cost & space.

Big studios with big budgets and plenty of space usually have big monitors as well as small "nearfield" monitors. Take a look at this "random" picture I just found... Two pair of smallish monitors on the console and 4 big woofers (or subs?) further back.

If you could make a 5-inch woofer that's flat down to 20Hz it couldn't reproduce the sound of a bass guitar or kick drum because it can't put-out enough power. Your hearing is less-sensitive at low frequencies so you might not hear anything at 20Hz, and that "flat" speaker would be less sensitive (more quiet) across the full frequency range.

That's just physics.. A kitten can't roar like a lion. Whales and elephants can make subsonic sounds.

But again these are just generalizations... A bigger woofer doesn't always put-out more bass or better bass... There are lots of factors that go into speaker design.

Quote:
Is the frequency crossover better or worse at different sizes?
No. It might affect where the speaker designer puts the crossover and if you go with a BIG woofer, you're probably going to need a 3-way design (2 crossover frequencies) because the larger woofer might not do a good job with mid frequencies. It does get "more difficult" at/near the crossover where the sounds are coming from both speakers and the soundwaves have to mix in the air, so a 3-way design is "more difficult" to get right.

Quote:
Why would someone want Twin 6.5 with Tweeter instead of a single 6.5 and tweeter?
100 small woofers could put-out a ship-load of bass... But 100 kittens can't roar like a lion...
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Old 11-30-2018, 04:28 PM   #23
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Quote:
Bose 901s have 8 front facing 4" drivers.
Fun fact, in the 90s, I was one of not many in the country authorized to re-cone 901s by hand, total pain in the ass.
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Old 11-30-2018, 04:47 PM   #24
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Fun fact, in the 90s, I was one of not many in the country authorized to re-cone 901s by hand, total pain in the ass.
I used to sell Bose speakers in another incarnation, and when I pried the speaker grill off of some of the smaller bookshelf models (201-301), realized why they had them nailed on. At least in the 80s they had ultra-cheep punch pressed baskets that looked like they were made out of recycled Campbells soup cans.

I always thought the 901s had a BIG chunky sound, but were not so accurate. They required an active equalizer plugged into the 3-head tape input of your receiver to fix their frequency response.

So what's the fix it yourself thing with the foam edge stuff for speakers in general? I have a killer pair of SPL 4000 monitors

https://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uplo..._spl_4000_.jpg

that I bought from the company I used to sell Bose speaker for, and their foam edges are beginning to deteriorate. I'd like to fix them back up, but am concerned that I would make things worse. Hehe, those are the bedroom speakers now for the surround sound in there.
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Old 11-30-2018, 04:55 PM   #25
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If you miss playing with all those drivers here is a DIY design for you.


http://www.xlrtechs.com/dbkeele.com/CBT.php



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Old 11-30-2018, 05:04 PM   #26
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So what's the fix it yourself thing with the foam edge stuff for speakers in general? I have a killer pair of SPL 4000 monitors
I re-coned speakers professionally for about 5 years and we were warranty authorized for Cerwin Vega, EV, Bose, JBL and most anyone who had such programs. Yes, it was replacing all those surrounds that always rotted with time. The challenge is that you have to solve the voice coil alignment issue when putting the surrounds on - with a single speaker you just apply the glue, then start manually sweeping the spectrum and adjust as you go - the tone generator will find any misalignment as a buzz then hopefully before the glue sets you are good to go.

901s and 9 speakers you can't do that - the trick is to attach a 9VDC battery to the inputs which forces all 9 speakers to stand up perfectly centered in the gap. A poor paying job but a killer experience knowledge wise. I once rebuilt a voice coil from scratch using an aluminum Mtn. Dew can, I really hate I lost it, it was so cool.
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Old 11-30-2018, 05:07 PM   #27
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Hey, those look similar to the speakers they had at an outdoor festival I did a few years back when my band opened for Joan Jett, Foghat, and War. Prolly not as good though.

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Old 11-30-2018, 05:09 PM   #28
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Hey, those look similar to the speakers they had at an outdoor festival I did a few years back when my band opened for Joan Jett, Foghat, and War. Prolly not as good though.

Lol, I've opened for Joan and all three or four versions of Foghat in the 90s - we had an opener for foghat, did the gig, had another two weeks later in another town, different set of players - lonesome dave was in one but forget which and both were like "no we are the real foghat".
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Old 11-30-2018, 05:12 PM   #29
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I re-coned speakers professionally for about 5 years and we were warranty authorized for Cerwin Vega, EV, Bose, JBL and most anyone who had such programs. Yes, it was replacing all those surrounds that always rotted with time. The challenge is that you have to solve the voice coil alignment issue when putting the surrounds on - with a single speaker you just apply the glue, then start manually sweeping the spectrum and adjust as you go - the tone generator will find any misalignment as a buzz then hopefully before the glue sets you are good to go.

901s and 9 speakers you can't do that - the trick is to attach a 9VDC battery to the inputs which forces all 9 speakers to stand up perfectly centered in the gap. A poor paying job but a killer experience knowledge wise. I once rebuilt a voice coil from scratch using an aluminum Mtn. Dew can, I really hate I lost it, it was so cool.
Sounds like it would have been a fun gig at least for a while. So in your professional opinion, should I just wait until the surrounds on my SPL 4000s are totally trashed and then let a professional re-cone them? I really don't hardly use them any more but they are a really great sounding pair of speakers. The baskets are cast and machined, but the company who made them folded many moons ago.
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Old 11-30-2018, 05:16 PM   #30
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Sounds like it would have been a fun gig at least for a while. So in your professional opinion, should I just wait until the surrounds on my SPL 4000s are totally trashed and then let a professional re-cone them? I really don't hardly use them any more but they are a really great sounding pair of speakers. The baskets are cast and machined, but the company who made them folded many moons ago.
If the surrounds are going, I'd just take them to someone who can replace them (or wait longer if they aren't), if you don't know someone, there is a guy in my town who does that business now - the company I worked for closed a couple years ago because the owners were aging and had to retire. Actually, Larry is one of the best guitarists I've ever known in my life and is super intelligent - but his main gig now is speaker repair and I would completely trust him.
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Old 11-30-2018, 05:16 PM   #31
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Glennbo,
Cool concert line array, mega powerful, nicely controlled dispersion.

Impressive name drop on the concert.
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Old 11-30-2018, 05:18 PM   #32
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Lol, I've opened for Joan and all three or four versions of Foghat in the 90s - we had an opener for foghat, did the gig, had another two weeks later in another town, different set of players - lonesome dave was in one but forget which and both were like "no we are the real foghat".
Hehe, someone in my band figured out a sooper sekret marking on the passes, and tweaked ours to look like the bigger acts passes. We got to go out back and have free killer steaks and seafood while mingling with all the bands playing that night.

This was the "Foghat" we played right before. War followed them and Joan Jett followed War.

https://sclkssl.ssl.hwcdn.net/14/img...205_795928.jpg
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Old 11-30-2018, 05:22 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
When was that? My gigs with them were roughly 1991/2 if memory serves. There were about 4 years here where what used to be coliseum acts were being forced into smaller venues, but they only did 90 minute sets and the smaller venues wanted 4 hours - I bet I opened for 100 "national acts" during that 4 years - anyone from Kansas to King's X - actually opened for King's X and Jake E. Lee again a couple years ago - they didn't remember me.
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Old 11-30-2018, 05:25 PM   #34
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If the surrounds are going, I'd just take them to someone who can replace them (or wait longer if they aren't), if you don't know someone, there is a guy in my town who does that business now - the company I worked for closed a couple years ago because the owners were aging and had to retire. Actually, Larry is one of the best guitarists I've ever known in my life and is super intelligent - but his main gig now is speaker repair and I would completely trust him.
They aren't too bad yet. No buzzing or anything, but you can visibly see that they are on the way out, and I'd hate to just let them go to total crap. I paid something like $800 for them and that was with a big employee discount. I have Ford Audio here in my town, and used to be tight with the owner Jim Ford. They can probably do a re-cone, bit I've seen these kits to DIY and wondered if it really was something that you could do yourself and not make things worse. Sounds like I was right in thinking the job was too big for me to try doing myself.
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Old 11-30-2018, 05:32 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
They aren't too bad yet. No buzzing or anything, but you can visibly see that they are on the way out, and I'd hate to just let them go to total crap. I paid something like $800 for them and that was with a big employee discount. I have Ford Audio here in my town, and used to be tight with the owner Jim Ford. They can probably do a re-cone, bit I've seen these kits to DIY and wondered if it really was something that you could do yourself and not make things worse. Sounds like I was right in thinking the job was too big for me to try doing myself.
If it is just the surrounds which it probably is, the kit is important because the glues for each component... surround, spider, coil etc. are all designed to have very specific properties. Acetone and a chisel will get the basket cleaned up and just acetone will get the surround off the cone. You do need something like a manual sweep of the frequency range - such as being able to sweep it via knob as the glue is setting until no frequencies buzz - if you don't get it in time - you'll have rougly a minute or so, it will set and you have to start over.

The only other concern is the spider, check to see if it is level and not collapsed, they can wear out and lose strength over time but if it is still able to hold everything level, aka center of excursion, and the voice coil hasn't burned just the surrounds should be fine. It's not uncommon for the coil (rather the former) to bubble if the speakers have been pushed to hard but you'd likely already be hearing that. That said, being your first try, I'd probably just have someone do it.
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Old 11-30-2018, 05:41 PM   #36
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When was that? My gigs with them were roughly 1991/2 if memory serves. There were about 4 years here where what used to be coliseum acts were being forced into smaller venues, but they only did 90 minute sets and the smaller venues wanted 4 hours - I bet I opened for 100 "national acts" during that 4 years - anyone from Kansas to King's X - actually opened for King's X and Jake E. Lee again a couple years ago - they didn't remember me.
That was back in 2005. That same band I was in back then did open for some some other national acts, but the one that was the most rewarding for me was opening for "Johnny A". He's such a down to Earth guy, and I got to hang out with him and ask him lots of questions about the evolution of his signature Gibson guitar, and having Steve Vai take him under his wing.

Hehe, we had a tour bus back then too, but it was totally gutted on the inside, so we had lawn chairs and bean bag chairs in it. When we pulled up right beside Exile's tour bus at one gig, they were like "who the f*ck are these guys?". Little did they know that our bus was nothing to write home about.

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Old 11-30-2018, 05:43 PM   #37
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Glennbo,
Cool concert line array, mega powerful, nicely controlled dispersion.

Impressive name drop on the concert.
I was out front for most of that show, and the sound was like listening to a BIG and POWERFUL home stereo. I guess those arrays were not the long throw horn design which always sound nasaly to me.
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Old 11-30-2018, 05:46 PM   #38
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If it is just the surrounds which it probably is, the kit is important because the glues for each component... surround, spider, coil etc. are all designed to have very specific properties. Acetone and a chisel will get the basket cleaned up and just acetone will get the surround off the cone. You do need something like a manual sweep of the frequency range - such as being able to sweep it via knob as the glue is setting until no frequencies buzz - if you don't get it in time - you'll have rougly a minute or so, it will set and you have to start over.

The only other concern is the spider, check to see if it is level and not collapsed, they can wear out and lose strength over time but if it is still able to hold everything level, aka center of excursion, and the voice coil hasn't burned just the surrounds should be fine. It's not uncommon for the coil (rather the former) to bubble if the speakers have been pushed to hard but you'd likely already be hearing that. That said, being your first try, I'd probably just have someone do it.
Yeah, I think I'll wait until they do start buzzing and then let someone more qualified do the repair. I can crank them up pretty loud with a lot of bass and there is no buzz yet, but I can see where one of them has some little holes starting to happen in the foam and the other one is starting to detach from the cone in one spot.
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Old 11-30-2018, 05:50 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post

Hehe, we had a tour bus back then too, but it was totally gutted on the inside, so we had lawn chairs and bean bag chairs in it. When we pulled up right beside Exile's tour bus at one gig, they were like "who the f*ck are these guys?". Little did they know that our bus was nothing to write home about.
We should have a war stories thread sometime. One of my most nervous moments was opening for RTZ (Boston minus Tom) - Here I am trying to play our set, I look back and Brad Delp (yes the Brad Delp) stands 18" behind my rig and watches the entire show. And yes Brad plays and sings (or did) exactly as good as the albums - and so does Don Dokken - played Alone Again with just me and him at an acoustic gig he dropped in on in that same time frame.
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Old 11-30-2018, 06:12 PM   #40
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We should have a war stories thread sometime. One of my most nervous moments was opening for RTZ (Boston minus Tom) - Here I am trying to play our set, I look back and Brad Delp (yes the Brad Delp) stands 18" behind my rig and watches the entire show. And yes Brad plays and sings (or did) exactly as good as the albums - and so does Don Dokken - played Alone Again with just me and him at an acoustic gig he dropped in on in that same time frame.
I added a pic of the bus I was referring to above. Sounds like you probably played gigs with some cooler big bands than I did. I quit high school and went on tour with the Drifters in the 70s, then got with a guy who had been Conway Twitty's opening act and toured with them for about 7 years. After that I played in the band that launched Vince Gill's career. I always ended up in bands that made a lot of money, but didn't really play music that was my favorite stuff, so the gigs we played with other bigger name acts were not with bands that I looked up to so much. Getting to hang with some of Boston would have jazzed me though.
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