Old 10-30-2018, 12:39 PM   #1
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Default Dragonfly Reverb

Hi all, I've been working on a free reverb plugin; The "REAPER for Linux" folks have already heard about this, but I'm wanting to broaden the discussion.

Dragonfly Reverb is a concert hall style reverb intended for acoustic instruments and vocals. For anybody who has used Hibiki Reverb, this is built on the same algorithms, so much to the extent that you can consider it almost the same plugin, but with a new user interface that is hopefully much easier to use.



I'm just about ready to make an official v1.0.0 release, I just need some folks to test it on a variety of platforms and to let me know if they experience any bugs. Please find the release candidate here:

https://github.com/michaelwillis/dra.../tag/1.0.0-RC1

Cheers,
Michael
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Old 10-30-2018, 03:53 PM   #2
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For native Reaper for Linux we must use this file "DragonflyReverb-vst.so"?

Edit. I can answer my question - this will work.

Last edited by jazznfunk; 10-30-2018 at 04:04 PM.
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Old 10-30-2018, 03:57 PM   #3
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win version D/L`d. Will give it a go.
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Old 10-31-2018, 10:36 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Willis View Post

I'm just about ready to make an official v1.0.0 release, I just need some folks to test it on a variety of platforms and to let me know if they experience any bugs.

Michael- I'm gonna confess- I saw "another reverb plugin" and immediately and instinctively yawned at the idea, but thought I'd give it a try and not expect too much.


WAS. I. WRONG.


This thing sounds fantastic!!! I don't think I have another verb that does what this does- very, very nice sounding and super natural.



One thing, tho- while it is very cool to have control over the early and late reflections in the fashion that you have, it is a little "different" when you consider where the "dry" control is. (Took me a minute to figure out what needed to happen there) Not a terribly off-putting thing, but I was thinking that since this is a pretty different reverb, what would you say to a "buss mode" switch that bypassed (and removed from view) the dry control? I don't think I've ever seen such a thing in a verb plugin before. The reason I mention it is that many of the older (ahem) "analog crowd" almost always use an FX buss for verbs like this, and when you put it onto a buss with a dry signal and almost no verb, the initial reaction is "that's not what I wanted" - and the fiddling around begins. If there were a "buss mode" that just turned off the dry signal and left the early/late reflections in, then it immediately starts acting the correct way, and dialing in the verb becomes less of a hassle.


At any rate- you're on to something here, and I'm about as jaded as they come when it comes to plugins and especially reverbs.
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Old 10-31-2018, 11:33 AM   #5
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Yep, it's a good one. The Freeverb3 algorithms are no joke. The interfaces put people off, and even people like me (who normally don't care about interfaces being pretty) have found it difficult to dial in the plugins. This approach is much better.

If Michael makes a plugin based on the Freeverb3 ProG algorithm, you'll love it too.
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Old 10-31-2018, 11:34 AM   #6
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I tend to use these sorts of things in series WAY more than I did in the old days, when you could only afford a few hardware reverbs, so I definitely don't mind the wet/dry control
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Old 10-31-2018, 11:58 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prezbass View Post
WAS. I. WRONG.
Mwuahahahahaha.

For some background, I dabble around with music on a Linux DAW. (I know, I'm probably crazy, but I tell myself that it's the good kind of crazy). There are not a lot of options of reverbs that run natively on Linux, but I found this open source reverb algorithm that I really liked the sound of. I thought I could spend a few weekends building a Linux version. After that things kind of got out of hand and here I am a year later almost ready to make the official v1.0.0 release.

I really like how it sounds, but I didn't want to put too much hype into it, since folks on Mac and Windows have so many options available. I'm not surprised that many people have that "yawn, another reverb?" reaction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prezbass View Post
"buss mode"
I can see what you're getting at. My usage is mostly stuff like orchestral arrangements or piano solos, in which I mostly just stick the reverb somewhere near the end of all of my signal routing, but I can totally understand that if you're using separate busses for your dry signal and your reverb, it would be super annoying to try exploring the presets in Dragonfly only to have it bump the dry back up to somewhere around 70%-90% every time you click a different preset.

I'll have to think about this one for a bit to see if I can find a solution that I'm happy with, which includes deciding whether it is worth having "yet-another-button" on the user interface.
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Old 10-31-2018, 12:24 PM   #8
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Another verb.
But a very good one.
Thanks for sharing.
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Old 11-01-2018, 02:21 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Willis View Post
Mwuahahahahaha ...

I'll have to think about this one for a bit to see if I can find a solution that I'm happy with, which includes deciding whether it is worth having "yet-another-button" on the user interface.
How about a mode-button, which switches (toggles) to:

1. insert-mode: Here we have the dry-fader.
2. send-mode: Here is no dry-fader, since "dry" is set strictly to "zero".

I suggest the name: "send<-->insert"
Or shorter: "s <-> i".
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Old 11-06-2018, 05:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prezbass View Post
"buss mode"
Quote:
Originally Posted by enroe View Post
How about a mode-button
I implemented an experimental compromise that I hope works for folks who want to use the reverb 0% dry:

https://github.com/michaelwillis/dra.../tag/1.0.0-RC2

In this release, the presets don't control the sliders at all. It defaults to 80% dry, 10% early, and 20% late. If you adjust the sliders and then pick another preset, the sliders just stay where you left them. Consider "bus mode" to be sliding dry down to 0%, and adjusting early and late to your preference.

Please try out this update and let me know what you think, it also includes a modification to the early reflections to make them less harsh at higher level.
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Old 11-06-2018, 08:00 PM   #11
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Now the name of the plugin (in Linux) displays as:

Code:
VST: Dragonfly Reverb0a╔ž■ (Michael Willis, Rob van den Ber)


Thanks for the update! I like how it saves the dry/early/late settings with a preset in Reaper, but otherwise leaves it alone when changing among "its own presets" from its interface. This behavior makes it perfect for quick auditioning of different settings.
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Old 11-07-2018, 08:49 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesPeters View Post
Now the name of the plugin (in Linux) displays as:
Code:
VST: Dragonfly Reverb0a╔ž■ (Michael Willis, Rob van den Ber)
Oh bother... I'm going to have to talk to falkTX about this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesPeters View Post
Thanks for the update! ... This behavior makes it perfect for quick auditioning of different settings.
I'm glad you still like it, I was hoping that the adjustments to ER and the preset behavior wouldn't ruin it for anybody.
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Old 11-07-2018, 09:02 AM   #13
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Won't work on 32 bit Win 10?
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Old 11-07-2018, 02:51 PM   #14
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Won't work on 32 bit Win 10?
I've never had anybody that wanted a 32 bit version. I have no idea if this will work, since I don't have a way to test it, but just because you asked I tried building it for 32-bit windows:

https://github.com/michaelwillis/dra.../tag/1.0.0-RC2

Let me know if it works.
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Old 11-08-2018, 12:28 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Willis View Post
I've never had anybody that wanted a 32 bit version. I have no idea if this will work, since I don't have a way to test it, but just because you asked I tried building it for 32-bit windows:

https://github.com/michaelwillis/dra.../tag/1.0.0-RC2

Let me know if it works.
Thanks for that! I'll let you know how it goes.
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Old 11-08-2018, 01:22 AM   #16
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Great sounding plugin. And very intuitive workflow. Many thanks!
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Old 11-09-2018, 06:27 AM   #17
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I guess the Spin and Wander knobs relate to these parameters mentioned on the Hibiki Reverb page (linked to in the first post).

Namely:

LFO1
The first frequency of the LFO in the FDN loop.
LFO2
The second frequency of the LFO in the FDN loop.
LFOF
The strength of the LFO in the FDN loop.
SPN
The frequency of the output chorus.
WAN
The length of the output chorus.
SPNF
The strength of the output chorus.

Is that right?
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Old 11-09-2018, 06:49 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldreap View Post
I guess the Spin and Wander knobs relate to these parameters mentioned on the Hibiki Reverb page (linked to in the first post).

Namely:

LFO1
The first frequency of the LFO in the FDN loop.
LFO2
The second frequency of the LFO in the FDN loop.
LFOF
The strength of the LFO in the FDN loop.
SPN
The frequency of the output chorus.
WAN
The length of the output chorus.
SPNF
The strength of the output chorus.

Is that right?
Yes. Spin and Wander are directly the same parameters as hibiki's SPN and WAN. Dragonfly reverb just uses fixed numbers for the LFOs and the Spin Factor.

At some point I might make a more advanced plugin that exposes more of these parameters for the folks who want MOAR DIALS. My friend tells me I should call it Dragonfly Nights.

Edit: to better understand spin and wander, use a large room size and set wander to 0ms. Make some abrupt impulse like a chord or a percussion hit. You'll hear the reverb tail panning left, right, left, right in the stereo space at the rate set by Spin. Experiment with different spin frequencies. There are actually multiple layers of reverb tails, but they are all synced up when wander is set to 0ms. Now slightly increase the wander, which serves as a maximum random delay between the layers. As you increase the wander, you will find that the spin "movement" of the layered tails spreads out. They all still spin at the same rate, but at any given time each one has its own panned location.

Last edited by Michael Willis; 11-09-2018 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 11-09-2018, 09:03 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Willis View Post
I've never had anybody that wanted a 32 bit version. I have no idea if this will work, since I don't have a way to test it, but just because you asked I tried building it for 32-bit windows:

https://github.com/michaelwillis/dra.../tag/1.0.0-RC2

Let me know if it works.
Thanks for taking the trouble to do the 32 bit build. I could see it in Reaper but loading it caused Reaper to close itself down! Possibly not your coding at fault, as I was finding that around a third of all plugins simply wouldn't work for me.
It inspired me to get on with reinstalling my OS to switch from 32 to 64 bit, which took me all day yesterday, and a fair bit of today. So now all back up & running.

Dragonfly is superb. It's just what I needed for my acoustic guitar and vocal recordings as it sounds very natural, and the interface is intuitive and unpretentious. Well done on this excellent plugin!
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Old 11-09-2018, 09:13 AM   #20
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It's just what I needed for my acoustic guitar and vocal recordings as it sounds very natural, and the interface is intuitive and unpretentious. Well done on this excellent plugin!
Awesome! I would love to hear what you do with it.
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Old 11-09-2018, 09:26 AM   #21
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Awesome! I would love to hear what you do with it.
Be careful what you wish for.......... :-)
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Old 11-09-2018, 09:28 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Willis View Post
Yes. Spin and Wander are directly the same parameters as hibiki's SPN and WAN. Dragonfly reverb just uses fixed numbers for the LFOs and the Spin Factor.

At some point I might make a more advanced plugin that exposes more of these parameters for the folks who want MOAR DIALS. My friend tells me I should call it Dragonfly Nights.

Edit: to better understand spin and wander, use a large room size and set wander to 0ms. Make some abrupt impulse like a chord or a percussion hit. You'll hear the reverb tail panning left, right, left, right in the stereo space at the rate set by Spin. Experiment with different spin frequencies. There are actually multiple layers of reverb tails, but they are all synced up when wander is set to 0ms. Now slightly increase the wander, which serves as a maximum random delay between the layers. As you increase the wander, you will find that the spin "movement" of the layered tails spreads out. They all still spin at the same rate, but at any given time each one has its own panned location.
Thanks for the detail, very helpful.
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Old 11-09-2018, 01:27 PM   #23
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Michael: I think you have a winner here. I just bought a TC Electronic reverb pedal & bunged it up in Reaper to compare it with other VST reverbs I have. Dragonfly came through with Flying Colours!

Be very interested to see how it develops.
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Old 11-09-2018, 03:25 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Willis View Post
Yes. Spin and Wander are directly the same parameters as hibiki's SPN and WAN. Dragonfly reverb just uses fixed numbers for the LFOs and the Spin Factor.

At some point I might make a more advanced plugin that exposes more of these parameters for the folks who want MOAR DIALS. My friend tells me I should call it Dragonfly Nights.

Edit: to better understand spin and wander, use a large room size and set wander to 0ms. Make some abrupt impulse like a chord or a percussion hit. You'll hear the reverb tail panning left, right, left, right in the stereo space at the rate set by Spin. Experiment with different spin frequencies. There are actually multiple layers of reverb tails, but they are all synced up when wander is set to 0ms. Now slightly increase the wander, which serves as a maximum random delay between the layers. As you increase the wander, you will find that the spin "movement" of the layered tails spreads out. They all still spin at the same rate, but at any given time each one has its own panned location.
Great plugin! The above and other things you've posted should go in manual of some sort.
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Old 11-09-2018, 09:09 PM   #25
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Great plugin! The above and other things you've posted should go in manual of some sort.
Yeah, yeah, I know... *grumble* ... I really need to thoroughly document this thing. I was thinking maybe when you click the question mark it could have multiple pages that you can go through that describe the dials, instead of just credits.
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Old 11-09-2018, 09:53 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Willis View Post
Yeah, yeah, I know... *grumble* ... I really need to thoroughly document this thing. I was thinking maybe when you click the question mark it could have multiple pages that you can go through that describe the dials, instead of just credits.
Exactly!
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Old 11-09-2018, 10:16 PM   #27
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michael, you did a great.
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Old 11-10-2018, 08:28 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesPeters View Post
Now the name of the plugin (in Linux) displays as:

Code:
VST: Dragonfly Reverb0a╔ž■ (Michael Willis, Rob van den Ber)
Heh, this one turned out to be not my fault

Please try the latest:
https://github.com/michaelwillis/dra.../tag/1.0.0-rc3

This should show the name without garbage characters. It should also show Rob's full name
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Old 11-10-2018, 09:15 PM   #29
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Looks good!

I'd actually found a workaround in the meantime, by editing the .ini file which had the VST plugin name to remove the "garbage characters". But this version doesn't cause that problem at all.
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Old 11-10-2018, 11:08 PM   #30
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Really cool so far.

I want to click the numbers and type in my own values instead of using the knobs sometime.

The sliders don't have handles so it's kind of jarring.
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Old 11-12-2018, 09:52 PM   #31
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Would love a gain knob for extra volume, even when fully wet.
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Old 11-12-2018, 10:18 PM   #32
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I have to say - I'm really impressed with the sound of DragonFly. Very very realistic. Thanks!!
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Old 11-12-2018, 11:13 PM   #33
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Today is my weekly "teach the after school kids Reaper" day and I#m gonna get them all to download this and play around with it.

Already stuck it quickly on a snare track before I shoot off to work.

Sounds very life like and very useful too.

Many thanks
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Old 11-13-2018, 04:06 AM   #34
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I just tried this. It sounds, looks and works great. Thank you for making this available.
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Old 11-13-2018, 08:50 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonybeepbeep View Post
Today is my weekly "teach the after school kids Reaper" day and I'm gonna get them all to download this and play around with it.
That's the best news I've heard in regards to this project since Rob van den Berg let me know he was doing the initial work on making the user interface! I would love to hear what your after school kids do with this.

If any of them (or anybody else for that matter) want to correspond directly with me, my email is willismichael at common email domain starting with "g" (trying to avoid spam), or this forum works too.

For some of you folks who have politely requested new features, yes I hear you. I'm trying to balance a number of things, like considering new features against keeping the plugin simple. I'm also trying to decide whether to put more work into this one, or to start building a similar plugin for one of the other Freeverb3 algorithms (a lot of folks are asking for ProG).

I'm just a hobbyist, most of my "day job" career has been developing boring business software, and what I really want to do with my discretionary time is virtual orchestration. On the other hand, it has been really rewarding to get mostly very positive feedback about this project. I'll likely continue working on plugin development, but maybe not at the pace that I have been doing.
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Old 11-13-2018, 08:57 AM   #36
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Michael, could you give a brief description of how the freq CUT and CROSS (crossover) knobs work? I can sort of see what's happening in the GUI graph thing but I feel that I don't completely understand.
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Old 11-13-2018, 09:26 AM   #37
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Michael, could you give a brief description of how the freq CUT and CROSS (crossover) knobs work? I can sort of see what's happening in the GUI graph thing but I feel that I don't completely understand.
Sure. First I have to admit that I also don't completely understand, since I didn't write the algorithm. This is part of the reason that I built the spectrogram, to get a better idea of what is going on.

The crossover and mult parameters work together in the late tail of the reverb. Let's say that based on your room size, the mid range frequencies have a decay time of 2.0 seconds. If your high cross is 5000Hz, and your high mult is set to 0.8x, then frequencies above 5000Hz will generally have a decay time of 2.0 x 0.8 = 1.6s. The crossover isn't a hard boundary though, so the decay time will be ramped near the boundary.

Same thing for low frequencies. If your low cross is 1000Hz and low mult is 1.5, then given the same room size as the above example, frequencies under 1000Hz will tend toward 2.0 x 1.5 = 3.0s.

The cutoff frequencies act as a high pass filter and low pass filter for both early reflections and late tail, although admittedly they don't cut nearly as hard as I would like. If I ever dig around in the reverb algorithm for a version 2 of this plugin, I think I will try making them cut really deep, something like 30 or 40 dB.
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Old 11-13-2018, 09:28 AM   #38
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Hey Michael

Don't you have a 32 bit version? Or did I miss it?
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Old 11-13-2018, 09:58 AM   #39
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32 bit version?
I tried making a 32 bit windows version, but I'm not sure if it works. I don't have a way to test it:

https://github.com/michaelwillis/dra...bit-v1.0.0.zip

Last edited by Michael Willis; 11-13-2018 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 11-13-2018, 02:06 PM   #40
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Sure. First I have to admit that I also don't completely understand, since I didn't write the algorithm. This is part of the reason that I built the spectrogram, to get a better idea of what is going on.

The crossover and mult parameters work together in the late tail of the reverb. Let's say that based on your room size, the mid range frequencies have a decay time of 2.0 seconds. If your high cross is 5000Hz, and your high mult is set to 0.8x, then frequencies above 5000Hz will generally have a decay time of 2.0 x 0.8 = 1.6s. The crossover isn't a hard boundary though, so the decay time will be ramped near the boundary.

Same thing for low frequencies. If your low cross is 1000Hz and low mult is 1.5, then given the same room size as the above example, frequencies under 1000Hz will tend toward 2.0 x 1.5 = 3.0s.

The cutoff frequencies act as a high pass filter and low pass filter for both early reflections and late tail, although admittedly they don't cut nearly as hard as I would like. If I ever dig around in the reverb algorithm for a version 2 of this plugin, I think I will try making them cut really deep, something like 30 or 40 dB.
Thanks for hearing us out. You should put up a tip-jar.
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