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06-30-2010, 02:29 PM
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#41
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
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Yep, I would like this too.
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06-30-2010, 03:32 PM
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#42
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Right Hear
Posts: 15,618
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I don't get what's being said...
I have a mono drum track, right now running in reap's with the DX version of Waves C4 Mono on it... Also on it is the L1 UltraMaximizer Mono... and just be sure, the voxengo curve EQ vst
they all work fine...
now a thought about waves DX stuff... you do know about the free VST2Shell tool right? so you'll get usable vst versions of the waves plugins..??? yah... you do know, huh?
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06-30-2010, 11:49 PM
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#43
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi
I don't get what's being said...
I have a mono drum track, right now running in reap's with the DX version of Waves C4 Mono on it... Also on it is the L1 UltraMaximizer Mono... and just be sure, the voxengo curve EQ vst
they all work fine...
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sure they work fine, but the voxengo curve eq you load as a stereo fx, right?
yeah, waves seems to offer separate mono version of their fx, thats why you can select them as mono in reaper. many others don't. and as already being said, vst 2.4 as well as audio unit don't require separate versions, they are provided in one .dll/.component/.vst. So the host hast to ask the plugin which in/out config it offers and then tell the plugin to load the appropriate. reaper is not capable of doing this. thats why many plugins are only loadable in their stereo (or better said their max in/max out version - Solera vst loads only as 8ch vst).
So - actually we don't need real mono tracks in Reaper, although it would be handy. But what we really need is the choice of what in/out config of the plugin of choice to load. although computers are quite fast today, it is still important not to waste cpu power, especially in bigger projects.
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03-12-2011, 09:32 AM
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#44
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 143
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Just a bump and a +1
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03-26-2011, 08:37 AM
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#45
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 143
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I was searching the official Feature Requests and couldn't find anything related to this in there. Does anyone know if this has been requested yet? I'd hate to put in a duplicate but I'd also really love to have this feature implemented. I'm sure I'm not alone in the use of processor-intensive plugins on most channels (VCC, Decapitator...) and having them all processing in stereo eats up a lot of CPU unnecessarily.
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04-13-2011, 01:15 PM
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#46
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1
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request: mono tracks and mono plugins
I'm currently trialling Reaper.
Within 1 hour I have discovered that it does not support mono tracks, and will not allow use of mono plugins. This is immediately off-putting.
Lack of mono tracks/plugs seems to deny the way that I mix, which I don't think is uncommon:
- Almost all my track recording is done in mono.
- When mixing, pretty much everything is mono plugins on mono tracks.
- The only time stereo comes into the picture is when I *pan* the mono tracks and effects.
The only WAV file that is ever stereo is the final mixdown.
A good example is that I'll have a mono guitar panned hard left, which is sent to a mono auxilary with a (mono) reverb - which is panned hard right.
My main reverb is Altiverb, which is CPU heavy. I use mono instances of it almost exclusively.
It seems like it's flat out impossible to use the mono Altiverb - it's not recognised by Reaper.
I'm forced to use the stereo version, and "fake" mono output by patching the left Altiverb output into the right output, in the plugin editor window.
Running at 96kHz, this is killing the CPU for no reason....
Count this as another request for proper mono support please!
For both tracks and plugins.
I'd be buying Reaper in a flash if this worked. Instead I'm sitting here thinking about it..
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04-13-2011, 04:12 PM
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#47
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
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agreed - this is a massive downside to the "a track is a track" paradigm ...
+1(*1000000000000)
for proper mono tracks
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05-04-2011, 04:10 PM
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#48
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 72
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Me too
+1! Is this going to be possible in v4? I downloaded the latest beta and it seems like the minimum is 2 channels. Am I missing something?
Thanks,
Beau
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05-04-2011, 04:26 PM
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#49
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 143
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I've done some more searching and can't find an official feature request for this so I guess I'll start one, but I'd love some input from people to make it as coherent and precise as possible. I think it would be reasonable to ask for the minimum input channel count in the FX window to be reduced to 1 instead of 2 so VSTs can be forced to operate in a "mono" mode if desired, thus reducing CPU consumption.
I'm out of my comfort zone here as I'm not a bit-twiddler but I believe Justin alluded to this being a possible solution in another thread. Does anyone have anything to add or believe I'm way off base with this? Thanks for any help with this.
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05-04-2011, 06:02 PM
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#50
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 72
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I think I found it
Use the track side-bar. Mono input is on the top of it.
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05-05-2011, 01:56 AM
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#51
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 499
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+1 to 1 channel tracks. Also, why is it possible to expand the "Plugin pin connector" beyond the track's channels count? (This is really minor though.)
The above is for a 2 channel track.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blandry
Use the track side-bar. Mono input is on the top of it.
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Are you referring to recording mono inputs?
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05-05-2011, 02:12 PM
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#52
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 72
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In the beta there is an "input fx" on the top of the track side-car that you can set to mono..... The more I mess with the settings though, the more confused I get......
I was able to change the plug-in pin connections to 1 in and 1 out, but I would hope we wouldn't have to do that every time we throw a mono plug on.
I'm really new to Reaper, sorry if I'm just injecting confusion here!
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05-08-2011, 01:37 PM
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#53
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,910
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct
No. That's what I wanted to say. They don't need separate "mono" version of their plugins. It's a single DLL.
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AFAIK, most plugins that don't have separate L-R controls will still load into a stereo track, but in dual-mono mode, without this being visible to the user. Then again, my main DAW is Protools TDM, running on a Mac. I guess Reaper could be different. I've always wondered about this. (So many "unique" things in Reaper that I can't stand)
My Reaper PC's are packed in my truck right now, so I can't check, but you can.
A simple Reaper test: Take a true & obvious stereo file, and insert a "mono" (only one set of controls needed, even if run in stereo) plugin. Does the sound collapse to mono at the output of the track, or remain stereo?
Last edited by Cableaddict; 05-09-2011 at 08:39 PM.
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05-09-2011, 08:39 PM
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#54
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,910
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OK, simple test done. Reaper clearly DOES maintain stereo imaging when a "mono" plugin in instantiated, (as expected) so it is going into "dual mono" mode automatically.
As it should.
What I can't figure is if the same dual-mono is happening on tracks with mono sources, thus wasting cpu cycles. How can you check for that?
Last edited by Cableaddict; 05-09-2011 at 08:54 PM.
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05-10-2011, 01:15 PM
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#55
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 72
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bump
Bueller?
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05-10-2011, 01:28 PM
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#56
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cableaddict
What I can't figure is if the same dual-mono is happening on tracks with mono sources, thus wasting cpu cycles. How can you check for that?
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I checked this in another daw on my laptop with Waves Doubler inserted on a mono audio track. With the stereo version (two meters) it ran 10% cpu and with the Mono version it ran at 6% so it does appear that the mono versions of at least some plugs do pull less CPU when you use them on a mono channel.
I did the same with a VST3 plug, inserted it on a mono audio track and switched the track between stereo and mono and it uses about 4% more cpu when stereo... but those will switch by themselves... the plugs.
Those mono versions of plugs do show up in Reaper though, so you'd use those in those cases even in Reaper.
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05-10-2011, 02:41 PM
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#57
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 72
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When I put Redline EQ on a mono track (in Reaper 4 beta) it runs in stereo mode. Nebula is processing in stereo as well. Aaargh! Both of these plugs are cpu hogs!
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05-12-2011, 01:14 PM
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#59
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 72
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Thank you
Awesome, just voted. How cool is Cockos for letting us vote for features? Very cool!
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05-14-2011, 01:37 AM
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#60
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 72
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05-16-2011, 08:31 AM
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#61
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cableaddict
OK, simple test done. Reaper clearly DOES maintain stereo imaging when a "mono" plugin in instantiated, (as expected) so it is going into "dual mono" mode automatically.
As it should.
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Please explain this to me. Why should the sound remain stereo when it passes through a mono plugin?
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05-18-2011, 03:40 AM
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#62
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,910
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Dual mono. One for each side, with ganged settings.
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05-18-2011, 08:46 AM
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#63
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cableaddict
Dual mono. One for each side, with ganged settings.
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Is that basically making a plugin process two channels in turn? Does the VST protocol allow this? Or instantiating a second copy of the (mono) plugin? Just want to know.
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06-27-2011, 10:15 AM
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#64
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Düsseldorf, Germany
Posts: 61
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I'm new to Reaper and so far impressed by the amount of configurability and the commitment to details and efficiany. At the same time I was puzzled to learn that Reaper doesn't support mono tracks. How's that possible?
Most of my tracks are mono. For example, I want to work with 4 mono guitar tracks (at least), all equipped with CPU-hungry, oversampled amp sims and IR-cabs. Not heaving mono tracks means I will waste so much ressources for nothing, because it's all processed twice. I haven't done any big projects with Reaper so far, but knowing from other DAWs: this is going to max out my CPU quickly.
This is the first serious bummer on my Reaper-expedition so far. It would be too bad, if I couldn't use Reaper just because of this.
So, please, for the sake of the climate change and my electricity bill, please add an option to Reaper to switch tracks to mono processing if appropriate.
Hope it's not too late for this feature to make it into v4.
Thanks,
Andi
Last edited by mcp; 06-27-2011 at 01:06 PM.
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06-27-2011, 09:48 PM
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#65
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcp
I'm new to Reaper and so far impressed by the amount of configurability and the commitment to details and efficiany. At the same time I was puzzled to learn that Reaper doesn't support mono tracks. How's that possible?
Most of my tracks are mono. For example, I want to work with 4 mono guitar tracks (at least), all equipped with CPU-hungry, oversampled amp sims and IR-cabs. Not heaving mono tracks means I will waste so much ressources for nothing, because it's all processed twice. I haven't done any big projects with Reaper so far, but knowing from other DAWs: this is going to max out my CPU quickly.
This is the first serious bummer on my Reaper-expedition so far. It would be too bad, if I couldn't use Reaper just because of this.
So, please, for the sake of the climate change and my electricity bill, please add an option to Reaper to switch tracks to mono processing if appropriate.
Hope it's not too late for this feature to make it into v4.
Thanks,
Andi
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Don't forget to vote for the feature!
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3344
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06-28-2011, 03:07 AM
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#66
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,905
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mono in mine
Interesting scripts
All I can put in this discussion is that my UAD monos load well, sound good to me, the finished sound is magic. True mono if I understand some of the above is not truly there, this I had not thought about. I can get my head around that though after being led to it, so I agree that true mono tracks would be of benefit.
Shows me the magic of the personalities that inhabit the Reaper Forum. Lots of real enthusiasm here.
Thank you all
Grinder
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06-28-2011, 03:24 AM
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#67
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,553
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mono tracks AND mono VU meter
In my old DAW, mono meters helped me identify tracks in the mixer with greater ease and faster. Mono instruments vs stereo sub-mixes... easier to tell apart. The single meter strips made a difference for me. Just pointing that out.
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06-28-2011, 03:52 AM
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#68
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Düsseldorf, Germany
Posts: 61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grinder
All I can put in this discussion is that my UAD monos load well, sound good to me, the finished sound is magic.
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But mono-plugins are really just a workaround for the few hosts that doesn't support mono tracks. Most plugins are not available in separate mono-versions, because most hosts don't need them for true mono processing.
Some other disadvantages of mono-plugins:
- they clutter your plugins-list, makes it harder to find the right plugin
- sometimes you can't interchanges presets between mono and stereo versions
- you can't drag&drop them to stereo tracks
- you can't change the track to stereo later, if needed for any reason
- one more thing to care about
andi
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06-28-2011, 03:57 AM
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#69
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Düsseldorf, Germany
Posts: 61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan
mono tracks AND mono VU meter
In my old DAW, mono meters helped me identify tracks in the mixer with greater ease and faster. Mono instruments vs stereo sub-mixes... easier to tell apart. The single meter strips made a difference for me. Just pointing that out.
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That makes sense. iirc they are working on a VU meter solution for multi-channel tracks. Maybe this will include mono VU meters as well.
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06-29-2011, 05:44 PM
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#70
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 72
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It's alive!
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06-29-2011, 07:42 PM
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#71
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blandry
It's alive!
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What is? Disco? It's about time that came back...
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06-29-2011, 08:11 PM
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#72
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,067
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan
mono tracks AND mono VU meter
In my old DAW, mono meters helped me identify tracks in the mixer with greater ease and faster. Mono instruments vs stereo sub-mixes... easier to tell apart. The single meter strips made a difference for me. Just pointing that out.
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+1 for mono meters
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06-29-2011, 10:48 PM
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#73
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 72
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Paging Mercado! Bat-signal!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingocounty
What is? Disco? It's about time that came back...
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Disco has another 2 to 5 years before it's back I think....
It's insane to me that this mono tracks thing has to be an issue. I keep thinking that I'm just nuts, that there's some work-around that everyone knows about...or at least an explanation as to why it doesn't matter.
Seems like it does!
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07-04-2011, 01:17 AM
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#74
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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Trqansfer from tracker IID 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by grinder
I personally record in mono or stereo mono so having the ability to have channels at true mono would be a plus for me. I would not go back to Pro Tools if Reaper did not have this though... And I used PT for years 35 pages of updates for vs 9 so far?????
Thanks
Grinder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcp
It would also save a lot of ressources on DSP cards (e.g. UAD) for anyone who is using mono tracks primarily. Close drum-mics, bass, guitars, vocals: everything I record is mono and treated as such in the mix. True mono tracks are standard in most DAWs for a good reason.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicenzajay
Concur - would love true mono tracks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blandry
36 yay, 1 nay...
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tenletters
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07-04-2011, 09:15 AM
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#75
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 143
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Just a friendly reminder to keep the comments and discussion in this thread and not in the Feature Request Tracker. :-)
Last edited by kingocounty; 07-04-2011 at 09:23 AM.
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07-04-2011, 10:59 AM
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#76
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Down Under
Posts: 396
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50% reduction of CPU would be the absolute theoretical maximum saving from going from stereo to mono. Real world saving would be significantly less since it's not a simple case of doing half as much work - although to 'us' it may seem that way. There can be many other factors which add to CPU usage but are not multiplied by the number of channels.
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07-04-2011, 02:17 PM
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#77
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Düsseldorf, Germany
Posts: 61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingocounty
Just a friendly reminder to keep the comments and discussion in this thread and not in the Feature Request Tracker. :-)
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I thought the additional information that DSP-Card performance is affected as well by the lack of mono-tracks was valuable enough to be appended to the FR. If moderators decided otherwise, well, so be it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by n0rd
50% reduction of CPU would be the absolute theoretical maximum saving from going from stereo to mono. Real world saving would be significantly less since it's not a simple case of doing half as much work - although to 'us' it may seem that way. There can be many other factors which add to CPU usage but are not multiplied by the number of channels.
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I made a short test a few days ago with a couple of Powered Plugins in Cubase w/mono tracks vs Reaper w/o mono tracks. On the UAD-meter the difference was 11% vs 19% DSP load. That's not a 50% difference indeed, but still quite a lot.
I'm going to do more tests in a couple of days to see how it affects the CPU.
andi
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07-04-2011, 02:41 PM
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#78
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcp
I thought the additional information that DSP-Card performance is affected as well by the lack of mono-tracks was valuable enough to be appended to the FR. If moderators decided otherwise, well, so be it.
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Yeah, I actually was thinking about leaving your's and maybe grinder's in. But then I thought, what the heck, the request ticket speaks for itself pretty good and actually doesn't need much additional explanation.
It's a bold decision to make sometimes... cleaning up in the issue tracker is amongst the baddest and most annoying jobs one can do and I can tell you I'm not always sure I do the right thing.
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07-06-2011, 11:39 AM
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#79
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 5
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I've only trialed Reaper and this is one of the main reasons I don't use it. I'm "Old Skool" which means I came from a console & tape machine and still prefer that style of work flow. Not only does Reaper need mono tracks, it needs a true, readily accessible structure of mono input and output. I addles me to no end to have a track that I have to make sure it's panned among a stereo pair of outputs to ensure that it comes up on the proper channel of my mixer. I currently use Pro tools and when I assign a track to an output it's easy as pie to select either or both of a stereo pair of outputs, same with the inputs. I understand the topology in Reaper of using stereo pairs of I/O since a lot of Reaper users are dealing with only one or just a couple of stereo I/O's on their computers, but us old geezers with 24, 32, 48+ I/O in our systems need to be able to spread things out on our console like we're used to and without a lot of fuss. You might find a whole new section of users if this where implemented, at least folks who would give Reaper a serious shot. YMMV
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07-11-2011, 12:39 PM
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#80
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,905
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Been thinking over night
Been thinking over night.
I come from Pro Tools
To my way of thinking Reaper has "Two channel" tracks so the same signal is going down the same speaker wires.
All we do is create two "Aux channels" fed by your source with the source ( In this case your Drum Instrument track )muted at the i/o un-tick the box Master Parent send: end.
These two Aux tracks name say BFD Left and BFD right. Then just pan to your leisure.
Then use your FX on mono for your mono tracks.
My UAD AND Nomad Factory plugins work in mono so they will create a true mono I presume.
I note that Reper will record Mono tracks from say a true stereo source this is something I always use recording my synth work from Instrument midi to Audio tracks.
Sounds true in my headphones, I tried it as soon as I got up with a new track that has synth on it.
We have to think as you do with a big true mixing desk as Reaper is anyway.
I think this works what do you all think?
If this seems strange I did it in a hurry!
Grinder
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