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07-11-2008, 02:07 PM
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#41
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 89
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Nice to see an effort on this topic, but I would need a ruler to see where the routing goes. I can't follow the name down and I have to tilt my head and everything. Why not the bidule / reason / energyXT / Buzz approach?
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07-11-2008, 04:22 PM
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#42
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Synthopia
Posts: 1,729
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I would also like to see this feature implemented - not now,but in the near future (REAPER 3.0)
We need basic stuff such as Export/Render to .MID file,MIDI editor improvements and more audio editing stuff done before adding more advanced features.
Last edited by synth; 07-11-2008 at 04:30 PM.
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07-12-2008, 04:49 AM
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#43
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: inside
Posts: 60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by labyrinth
Alright, so people have passed around a lot of ideas on this and many also like the router the way is now...so I came up with a work around. This method or integration would give you the option to view with or without the fx showing, which would save room on those huge projects. This method incorporates the AWESOME new fx pin connector from the fx into the router. You would still be able to adjust them where they are, but view and change them here as well. What does everyone think?
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this might work,
but for my limited mind it looks a bit confusing,
I too would prefer a modulation routing like in eXT or bidule or ...
something I can understand and handle
__________________
sound & safe
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07-16-2008, 12:14 PM
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#44
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 2,248
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Anyone...this is important, as it helps us see what is going on underneath everything. It's almost as if it's part of the mixer itself (an extension at least).
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07-16-2008, 02:22 PM
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#45
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by labyrinth
Anyone...this is important, as it helps us see what is going on underneath everything. It's almost as if it's part of the mixer itself (an extension at least).
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Yeah, it's like having a *real* mixer. I have hardware, and with enough jack cables, I can connect them however I like. I love that freedom. And it's also necessary. I want to group kick drum and bassline without the aid of another space swallowing track. Just wanna connect it directly
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09-09-2008, 03:34 AM
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#46
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NZ
Posts: 118
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I'm with Lawrence in that I also don't use the Routing Matrix, it doesn't appeal to me at all.
If we want to add a graphic element, why not use something simple and easy to understand? The best approach in my opinion is to take what Nicholas did in the Reaper manual and the ReaMix book and put that into software.
For example in the v2.4 manual, page 309, section 17.6 Channel Splitting and Pitch Shifting there's a nice example of what I mean. Most people will have the manual and I don't want to rip off Nicholas' work so I won't post a picture.
Using the graphic interface would solve two purposes, one is to SHOW the current signal flow (including track channels as per the example) and the other is to change the flow. Changes in the graphic interface should then be reflected in the Reaper Mixer.
Depending on which tracks are selected the graphical interface would then only display that selection. If you want to see the whole signal flow, select all tracks.
Track channels could be changed using drop down menus next to the signal lines.
A grid for automatic aligning would be helpful.
New items, ie fx could be dragged and dropped using the existing fx window.
Other than that..
++1 for the idea
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04-07-2009, 04:15 AM
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#47
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7
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Idea is really awesome.
I desperately want reaper to have screen with module structure. Like, buzz, traction, energy-XT.
You can just drag`n`drop some plugins on screen, make routing with one click lines. It will be really USEFUL functionality.
Looks like this:
http://jvstwrapper.sourceforge.net/i...yXT2_multi.png
I love Reaper, and with implementation of this idea it become just brilliant tool for creative people!
PEACE
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04-07-2009, 04:36 AM
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#48
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1
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really good idea, looks very tasty
Love to see it in new reaper
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04-07-2009, 04:37 AM
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#49
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Open_Mind
Idea is really awesome.
I desperately want reaper to have screen with module structure. Like, buzz, traction, energy-XT.
You can just drag`n`drop some plugins on screen, make routing with one click lines. It will be really USEFUL functionality.
Looks like this:
http://jvstwrapper.sourceforge.net/i...yXT2_multi.png
I love Reaper, and with implementation of this idea it become just brilliant tool for creative people!
PEACE
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Great idea ^)
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04-07-2009, 04:57 AM
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#50
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hungary,Europe
Posts: 800
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I like this idea. The current routing window is ok but after the number of tracks increase I can hardly find my way. In my view, keep the current one as well as having a modular one.
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15" Retina MBP, Adobe CC, UA Apollo
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04-07-2009, 04:58 AM
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#51
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 24
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+1 for buzzlike modularity.
I've used many modular sequencers, and in fact use Energy XT as my main software since a few years, but recent (lack of) developments are making me look around for a replacement. Buzz has a great modular routing system, and it feels much more natural to use than a routing dialog.
Ofcourse, it really comes into its own when routing complex fx-chains with multiple paths, where a traditional routing dialog will lack oversight.
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04-08-2009, 11:46 PM
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#52
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2
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+1
i'm vote for buzzlike modularity. but you can improve some minuses in buzz interface:
1. in buzz you can't see in the machine view volume gain of each connection, until you change it. Volume slider are uniformative.
Improvment: showing volume by colors of arrow's filling, or caption on it. Also adding some audio meter.
2. in buzz you can see only diRect audio connection. Not midi (peer controls), no send, no buses
Improvment: switchable views option - audio, midi, buses
thanx all cockos team for reaper!
Last edited by gazzz; 04-08-2009 at 11:50 PM.
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04-09-2009, 12:37 AM
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#53
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7
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gazzz you right man. It will be BOMB
Quote:
Originally Posted by gazzz
2. in buzz you can see only diRect audio connection. Not midi (peer controls), no send, no buses
Improvment: switchable views option - audio, midi, buses
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I agree about that. Midi modifiers can be separate bloks. It will be clear routing system. And if make Group objects (containers for blocs groups), it can be unbelievable cool system to keep routing of huge project under control.
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04-09-2009, 01:20 AM
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#54
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synthie
I'm with Lawrence in that I also don't use the Routing Matrix, it doesn't appeal to me at all.
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same here. the routing matrix doesn't jive with my brain at all, and i'd like to see a different visual approach to routing in reaper.
+1
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04-09-2009, 01:29 AM
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#55
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: sweden
Posts: 465
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As an ex buzzer I would also like to give a +1 to this one.
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04-09-2009, 01:55 AM
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#56
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: decepticon mothership in a hidden place inside a mountain
Posts: 3,754
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In Buzz, it is a bit like in EnergyXT, right ?
You just have to drag&drop some virtual wires from one module to another in order to connect it, that's it ?
If so, count me in
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04-09-2009, 05:11 AM
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#57
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 24
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Sink: It's very similar. The only differences are that in Buzz you've got a volume-control in the middle of the wire, and the wires don't attach to specific points, so it's easier to sort modules any way you like (most screenshots of buzz will show you the master component in the middle, with the plugins arranged around it. A small thing, but it does feel nice. Then again, buzz doesn't send midi through them, just audio, so there's only one line anyway.
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04-09-2009, 05:25 AM
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#58
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: decepticon mothership in a hidden place inside a mountain
Posts: 3,754
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Ok, so +1 of course
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04-09-2009, 10:41 AM
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#59
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
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how would this buzz type routing distinguish a multi-channel track's audio and midi channels? or would it?
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04-10-2009, 12:44 AM
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#60
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
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Hello brainwreck, others. You may or may not be aware of another thread discussing the router.
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=22716
I've done my add for both suggestions.
The difference is that airons 'usability improvements' are not a radical departure to what many of us do find an essential (although frustrating to read) feature.
There are great ideas on both these threads, keep bumping....
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04-10-2009, 09:51 AM
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#61
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,553
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I would love to see this modular way of doing things in the FX chain initially. Either a modular wrapper for plugins, or a completely modular FX chain.
Serial, parallel (and in between) FX processing in a single track. Or a complete multitimbral assembly of VSTi in a single track. Or...
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04-12-2009, 10:44 PM
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#62
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck
how would this buzz type routing distinguish a multi-channel track's audio and midi channels? or would it?
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Maybe with colors?
I think it will be useful for both MIDI and multi-channel. Creators of reaper are very talented guys. We give them idea, and let`s see how it will be realized. I prefer to see it as additional tab or window.
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04-13-2009, 07:46 AM
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#63
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 46°31'20.67"N - 6°37'6.47"E
Posts: 803
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wow, that would rock !
++1
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04-25-2009, 05:04 AM
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#64
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7
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+100
Guys out here say that should be awesome feature.
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04-25-2009, 08:05 AM
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#65
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,923
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I think the most pressing need is simply a modular view in the track's fx window instead of the current setup with the little pin pop-ups.
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05-17-2009, 12:08 AM
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#66
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Virginia Beach VA
Posts: 2,274
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Bump for modular TRACK/CHANNEL view.
I imagine it to be just a GUI with some taping and connecting functionality. Reaper seems to have a black box between the inputs and outputs, and the UI seems to be behind the routing capabilities (especially for complex fx routing within one track).
It would be great to be able to tap and listen anywhere within each track's 64 channels for trouble shooting.
Another feature could be one window (or a sub window) that acted like an interactive signal flow chart just showing all seven or so gain settings for the channel (not necessarily being able to adjust them form that window but showing were to find them)
Reaper's uncluttered interface is great to work with, but it is not a great advertisement in the sense that it says "Hey look at everything I can do!". When one of Reapers greatest features is also one of the most hidden, having a functional UI window that also shows off its capabilities can be really beneficial IMO.
Last edited by zappsunzorn; 05-17-2009 at 03:45 AM.
Reason: specify track/channel
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05-26-2009, 09:18 AM
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#67
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Russia, P-Posad
Posts: 25
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+1
Good idea!
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05-26-2009, 01:06 PM
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#68
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bristol uk
Posts: 1,006
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++1
For collapsible modular channels . Reapers IO panel drives me insane the amount of hoops I have to jump through to set up side chaining .
It would be so gratifying to quickly be able to change modulation sources without having to setup receive chancels manually.
It would be great to be able to work with patch cords although with 20 tracks ruining with many modulating each other could become very messy quickly even with each Chanel packing itself away. I think it would be a good idea to have an option to show only cords from channels connected to selected channel.
Hears dreaming
For now I could settle on a few more drop down routing options
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=36374
Last edited by jedstar2000; 05-26-2009 at 01:54 PM.
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05-27-2009, 05:45 AM
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#69
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedstar2000
++1
For collapsible modular channels . Reapers IO panel drives me insane the amount of hoops I have to jump through to set up side chaining .
It would be so gratifying to quickly be able to change modulation sources without having to setup receive chancels manually.
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Ya mon, it will be so fokkin` great!
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06-08-2009, 06:25 AM
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#70
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7
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This theme is very important and must be sticked.
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06-08-2009, 07:11 AM
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#71
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: inside
Posts: 60
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+1
I'd like the energyXT approach too
__________________
sound & safe
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06-08-2009, 07:25 AM
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#72
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Underworld
Posts: 1,188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Open_Mind
Idea is really awesome.
I desperately want reaper to have screen with module structure. Like, buzz, traction, energy-XT.
You can just drag`n`drop some plugins on screen, make routing with one click lines. It will be really USEFUL functionality.
Looks like this:
http://jvstwrapper.sourceforge.net/i...yXT2_multi.png
I love Reaper, and with implementation of this idea it become just brilliant tool for creative people!
PEACE
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Precisely . Ditto, +100 etc... Matrix routing screen as it is now is only useful if you have a few tracks, VSTis and VSTs in the project. Afterwards it just becomes mind boggling, confusing mess. Therefore I never use it, which is a pity. More graphical approach with simple jacks like in EnergyXT would do it far more efficiently IMO.
Cheers!
__________________
Goodnight, thank you, and may your God go with you.
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06-13-2009, 09:53 AM
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#73
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Open_Mind
This theme is very important and must be sticked.
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Totally agree!
+1111 for Buzz or EnergyXT approach. Any kind of modularity is a big step to additional creativity!
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06-13-2009, 10:24 AM
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#74
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Underworld
Posts: 1,188
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I'd also like to point out that most of the problems with the audio software today stems from the fact that programmers can't think in studio terms and we musicians and studio workers want cables . Not checkmarks and endless tables like Excel for god's sake. We want to see it all connected hardware-like .
Cheers!
__________________
Goodnight, thank you, and may your God go with you.
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06-14-2009, 02:46 AM
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#75
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Mortal
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: France
Posts: 1,969
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PLEASE, CAN WE WAIT FOR A FR WORDING CONSENSUS BEFORE AN "OFFICIAL" FR !?
I'm very interested in this FR too. Watch it regulary as I use complex routings, it's one of the very last thing I need in reaper.
But -IMO- things are going in too much directions here (modular view, routing, pin connectors, etc...) and it do not take other important things - such as nested folders - into account.
However, I think that everybody here is talking about the same stuff: all of these suggestions + nested folders + the famous "rack view" (other FR, lowest priority IMO) can be merged into the same view ! It can also indirectly bring new features to reaper such as fast navigation in the project.
I can contribute here as I design/implement such "modular" components (pro stuff: massive network monitoring).
I have no time to detail my ideas right now, but I'll do it here ASAP. Main point: the eXT idea indeed good but the way it has been implemented is an error, IMO.
SO, PLEASE, CAN WE WAIT FOR A FR WORDING CONSENSUS BEFORE POSTING THIS AS AN OFFICIAL FR !?
See you soon about this..
Last edited by Jeffos; 06-14-2009 at 02:54 AM.
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06-14-2009, 08:52 AM
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#76
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NA - North Augusta South Carolina
Posts: 4,294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence
+1 ... with an explanation of sorts...
I think that graphic router thing above is not only butt ugly but I couldn't imagine working in it
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I agree it's not "Circa 2009 Stylized", but IMO it's extremely legible and functional.
The paradigm of the last out being in the center (the "mixer") is curious, it provides room around it for multiple routing arrangements while maintaining clarity.
The linear - top-down, left side>right side paradigm, I think endlessly gets messy because there's little to differentiate *spatially* from one channel to another. With the circular paradigm, you could always have midi channels in one quadrant, audio another, both with patching going to the remaining for quadrants.
That way, you know where to glance visually in a hurry, without having to "visually hunt" for where you want to go. You'd automatically know where to look.
A very important aspect to the whole "visual diagram" routing approach IMO.
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06-14-2009, 04:55 PM
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#77
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Here
Posts: 3,000
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Some of these ideas are cool, but personally I find their coolness more in the visual fluidity of floating object icons connected with cable and jacks, than in the direct functionality it offers. It would be fun to futz with, but how efficient would it really be? I think the current hard-to-grok routing matrix -- with some redesign that made it easier to grasp and navigate quickly -- would be much more usable and directly functional, and immediately comprehensible, even though grids are, yeah, a little on the boring side.
I like labrinth's idea below, to optionally show fx, IF it was combined with other enhancements like discussed in this thread:
Routing Matrix - Usability Improvements
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...ghlight=matrix
I would use the Routing Matrix much more than I do if it was simply easier to SEE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by labyrinth
Alright, so people have passed around a lot of ideas on this and many also like the router the way is now...so I came up with a work around. This method or integration would give you the option to view with or without the fx showing, which would save room on those huge projects. This method incorporates the AWESOME new fx pin connector from the fx into the router. You would still be able to adjust them where they are, but view and change them here as well. What does everyone think?
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06-14-2009, 06:49 PM
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#78
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffos
I'm very interested in this FR too. Watch it regulary as I use complex routings, it's one of the very last thing I need in reaper.
But -IMO- things are going in too much directions here (modular view, routing, pin connectors, etc...) and it do not take other important things - such as nested folders - into account.
However, I think that everybody here is talking about the same stuff: all of these suggestions + nested folders + the famous "rack view" (other FR, lowest priority IMO) can be merged into the same view ! It can also indirectly bring new features to reaper such as fast navigation in the project.
I can contribute here as I design/implement such "modular" components (pro stuff: massive network monitoring).
I have no time to detail my ideas right now, but I'll do it here ASAP. Main point: the eXT idea indeed good but the way it has been implemented is an error, IMO.
SO, PLEASE, CAN WE WAIT FOR A FR WORDING CONSENSUS BEFORE POSTING THIS AS AN OFFICIAL FR !?
See you soon about this..
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I will be very interested to see what you propose - there has been a lot of work on usability of visual programming languages and network visualisation. The current system is fine as a stop gap, but a sophisticated modern design would be great
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06-15-2009, 08:32 AM
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#79
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NA - North Augusta South Carolina
Posts: 4,294
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This maybe a zany thought, but is there some way Justin could make a hook available for the programmers here to allow a "third party" access to the display of the routing table? I know that's asking to break the whole thing...
Or a way to "skin" the routing table, since it seems everyone has their own idea of what they'd like it to look like?
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06-15-2009, 10:11 AM
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#80
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Mortal
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: France
Posts: 1,969
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chip mcdonald,
I had a look on the APIs: last time I checked, there was no way to manage everthing ... but it's ok for the most important thing: routing.
On the other hand, I repeat, I think that all ideas here are compatible
(execpt those talking about a simple Routing matrix enhencement, like Marah Mag. This is interesting, but it's a distinct FR IMO and for sure not suitable for some of the routing I use).
Rather than writing a boring 2 pages post, I'm hacking one of my app to show you a mock-up. So give me some time...
I'm not talking about fancy jacks & blinking stuff everywhere but about an efficient component. I don't say that it's the truth or that cockos should do that but I have a clear vision and I can definitively contribute here.
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