Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER Feature Requests

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-29-2017, 09:23 AM   #121
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
Default

Not sure why you'd need ARA for your plugins? You can use Reaper's AudioAccessor already without any need for ARA. Of course, you'd need to do some code refactoring... or even do it from scratch, but - you CAN access audio randomly without ARA in Reaper...
EvilDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2017, 09:26 AM   #122
Stevie
Human being with feelings
 
Stevie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Ukraine, Russia
Posts: 255
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
I think the simplest solution is to just use the NEW Realodyne plugin.

Exactly, but not plugin.. maybe some "next step" of Peaks, like melody peaks or something
Stevie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2017, 09:26 AM   #123
heda
Human being with feelings
 
heda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Spain
Posts: 7,241
Default

So, the thread title should be... Kickstarter for AudioAccessor in Melodyne. or what
heda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2017, 10:04 AM   #124
Xenakios
Human being with feelings
 
Xenakios's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oulu, Finland
Posts: 8,062
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Not sure why you'd need ARA for your plugins?
Not sure who you were addressing but a reason for a plugin developer to use ARA would be to attempt compatibility with the other hosts that do support ARA.
__________________
I am no longer part of the REAPER community. Please don't contact me with any REAPER-related issues.
Xenakios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2017, 10:46 AM   #125
azslow3
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 797
Default

@EvilDragon. Sorry for the confusion. Mentioning my plug-ins was off-topic, as a reply to mschnell.

I do NOT need ARA for my plug-ins.

But my claim about myself in the first post was rather strong, especially for some newcomers with 0 posts. Declaring skills require at least some prove that I know what I am talking about.


@Xenakios. I have found an old thread where you have mentioned ARA SDK. So your conclusions was knowing Rea API and looking at ARA API. schwa has the same opinion. It seems like the task is really challenging, I mean it sounds interesting
azslow3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2017, 11:44 AM   #126
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,690
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
But the complete ARA interface requires a significant amount of code overhead.
I understand that Melodyne not only can modify the Audio within the track/item it resides in, but also can create a Tempo map from the audio, that is supposed to somehow work together with the Master Track.

In fact for the stuff I do this would be much more a reason to buy Melodyne than the usual voice straightening up (which I doubt will work well in a live recording with lots of other instruments bleeding on on voice track).

Obviously here additional API functions need to be provided together with the raw audio data access.

-Michael
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2017, 12:00 PM   #127
Xenakios
Human being with feelings
 
Xenakios's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oulu, Finland
Posts: 8,062
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Obviously here additional API functions need to be provided together with the raw audio data access.
Or Reaper could implement the Melodyne/ARA assisted tempo mapping stuff itself...

It would work something like :

1) Melodyne analyses the audio
2) Reaper detects/gets notified Melodyne has the tempo mapping data available
3) Reaper inserts tempo markers/adjusts existing ones

The extensions/ReaScript API doesn't really need to be involved here.

If you want to implement it yourself as an extension plugin or something, though, the API already has for example SetTempoTimeSigMarker.
__________________
I am no longer part of the REAPER community. Please don't contact me with any REAPER-related issues.

Last edited by Xenakios; 11-29-2017 at 12:05 PM.
Xenakios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2017, 12:04 PM   #128
juliansader
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,714
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by heda View Post
So, the thread title should be... Kickstarter for AudioAccessor in Melodyne. or what
Exactly. Justin mentioned earlier that it would be much easier for Celemony to code a REAPER interface than for Cockos to code an ARA interface.

Celemony does not have its own forum any more, but perhaps all the enthusiastic supporters in this thread can contact them via social media?

Last edited by juliansader; 11-29-2017 at 12:12 PM.
juliansader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2017, 12:07 PM   #129
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,690
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenakios View Post
1) Melodyne analyses the audio
2) Reaper detects/gets notified Melodyne has the tempo mapping data available
3) Reaper inserts tempo markers/adjusts existing ones
Some months ago in some forum I asked how Melodyne would output tempo mapping data an how that could be imported into Reaper, but I got no answer.

-Michael
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2017, 12:19 PM   #130
Xenakios
Human being with feelings
 
Xenakios's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oulu, Finland
Posts: 8,062
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
how Melodyne would output tempo mapping data
Via the ARA API, obviously... (It's not just about allowing the plugin to access audio quickly from the host, it also has features for exchanging pitch/tempo etc data between the plugin and the host.)

I don't recall the specifics but I think there are ways to make multiple Melodyne instances work together etc for multitrack analysis/processing, as well as make one instance access more audio than the audio that is in the media item/track that the plugin is loaded on.
__________________
I am no longer part of the REAPER community. Please don't contact me with any REAPER-related issues.
Xenakios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2017, 12:40 PM   #131
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,690
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by azslow3 View Post
I have made it for a friend (yes, the whole thing just for one person who was in trouble). He demonstrate the result in this videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU5PQJ8AWmQ
If your goal is to have Reaper be controlled in a sophisticated way by XTouch Compact and other hardware, I recommend using OSCIIbot.

I in fact do the "Live" controlling for Reaper natively via Midi, but I don't control any "DAW" features but only select tracks and feed parameters and midi messages to the VSTs. I additionally use OSCIIbot to bidirectionally forward/translate Midi messages (from/to the XTouch and Reaper) via OSC and WLAN to an X18 Rack Mixer.

I think you better would access Reaper via OSC by OSCIIBot, and attach the XTouch to same via Midi.

OSCIIbot is to be programmed in EEL script (see documentation). This language is also used for JSFX plugins and Reaper "control" scripts. EEL might seem somewhat unfamiliar in certain aspects, but once you get upt to speed it's easy to use. (I did lots of Midi programming, some Graphics stuff, and a sopisticated audio plugin using FFT.)

As this is off-topic here, if interested please start a thread in the OSCIIBot subforum.

-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 11-29-2017 at 10:43 PM.
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2017, 10:14 PM   #132
insub
Human being with feelings
 
insub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Louisville, KY, USA
Posts: 1,075
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I mean, there are a few extensions to VST standards no other DAW than the one implementing it is chasing. Reaper has its own VST extensions... Sonar has that extension for VST migration (https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentati...atures.06.html)
That example doesn't appear to be anything close to as complex as ARA, but I gotta admit it sounds like a very useful feature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
The supporters of ARA are very vocal on here, but nobody has really given a serious run-down of exactly what would be available in Reaper in terms of functionality if ARA were added.
I'd say the biggest would be tempo mapping and editing, better pitch correction than ReaTune, and much speedier workflow than bouncing back & forth between DAWs to use Melodyne.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Way to offtopic, bro.
YES!!! Dang this thread was already long enough without that massive derail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Some months ago in some forum I asked how Melodyne would output tempo mapping data an how that could be imported into Reaper, but I got no answer.
Currently, the way I have to do it now is to take my recordings that I made in REAPER:
1. Load the tracks (or at least a mixdown) into Melodyne 4 Studio (standalone)
2. wait for it to analyze all the tracks, adjust the algorithm for each track (if multiple)
3. make manual adjustments to the tempo map automatically created by Melodyne (it's really good, like 95%)
4. Export a midi file from Melodyne
5. Set all items in REAPER to TimeBase=Time
6. Import MIDI file to the correct timeline location accepting the embedded tempo map

You cannot do this from the plugin version of Melodyne. Having ARA would not only eliminate all of those steps but would allow you to then quantize the timing of your entire project or fix timing/pitch of each track within the project. And, would be loads faster than even making those edits within the standalone version of Melodyne, at least as appears in this video by Celemony in 2011. The video makes it look like Melodyne analysis is instantaneous via ARA from within Studio One. The plugin version has to analyze in real-time. While the standalone will analyze faster, maybe 3x realtime per track, at least on my machine.

So, for anyone who owns a license of Melodyne having ARA is or can become a DAW changer. I'm already having to bounce between Melodyne 4 Studio (a DAW itself to some degree) and REAPER to get the features from Melodyne that I want, namely tempo stuff. But, I've started to consider possibly going with Studio One to get ARA functionality. I really don't want to change DAWs or add another DAW to bounce back & forth between.

To address the OP... I would rather give my money to Cockos to do what it takes to implement ARA via crowdfunding, if that's what it would take, than to go purchase another DAW. Count me IN.

P.S. - Just to set the record straight... ARA was invented as a collaborative effort between Presonus and Celemony. And, certainly, their early integration of ARA has swayed users to their DAW and still does today 6 years later.
__________________
Everything you need to know about samplerates and oversampling... maybe!
My Essential FREE 64bit VST Effects, ReaEQ Presets for Instruments
Windows 10 64 bit; MOTU 828 MKII, Audio Express, & 8PRE; Behringer ADA8000
insub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2017, 10:49 PM   #133
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,690
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by insub View Post
4. Export a midi file from Melodyne
5. Set all items in REAPER to TimeBase=Time
6. Import MIDI file to the correct timeline location accepting the embedded tempo map
That is the information I was after (as I did not know that Melodyne can export Midi files nor that Reaper can import Midi Files (into the Master Track ?) to modify the Tempo Map.

I'll forward this to the friend who uses Melodyne and Reaper.
Thanks !
-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 11-29-2017 at 10:58 PM.
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2017, 10:54 PM   #134
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,690
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by insub View Post
better pitch correction than ReaTune
AFAIK this is possible even now with the Melodyne plugin.

But without ARA, you can't move the items that are Melodyned in time, any more.

-Michael
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2017, 11:32 PM   #135
Xenakios
Human being with feelings
 
Xenakios's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oulu, Finland
Posts: 8,062
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
AFAIK this is possible even now with the Melodyne plugin.

But without ARA, you can't move the items that are Melodyned in time, any more.
Well, you can, but you need to recapture the audio into Melodyne in real time and do the needed Melodyne adjustments again...
__________________
I am no longer part of the REAPER community. Please don't contact me with any REAPER-related issues.
Xenakios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2017, 01:43 AM   #136
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
But without ARA, you can't move the items that are Melodyned in time, any more.
Unless you load Melodyne as item FX?
EvilDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2017, 02:17 AM   #137
scottfa
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 35
Default

So, is ARA implementation more difficult for Reaper than it is for other DAWs like Sonar or Studio One?
I really like Reaper but this might be a deal breaker as i have just upgraded yo Melodyne Editor.
scottfa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2017, 02:28 AM   #138
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
Default

We don't know how "difficult" it was to implement ARA in other DAWs, but those other DAWs have a lot more than 2 people coding them.
EvilDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2017, 02:46 AM   #139
G-Sun
Human being with feelings
 
G-Sun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Norway
Posts: 7,318
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Hi everybody. This comes up regularly. Here is the current state of ARA in REAPER.
Thanks a lot for the info schwa!
It means a lot to us users to have you explain things like this for us.
Now, in your opinion, what is the most likely future for pitch-correction-functionality in Reaper?
__________________
Reaper x64, win 11
Composer, text-writer, producer
Bandcamp
G-Sun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2017, 07:59 AM   #140
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,690
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenakios View Post
... and do the needed Melodyne adjustments again...
Ha, Ha, Ha,
-Michael
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2017, 08:01 AM   #141
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,690
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Unless you load Melodyne as item FX?
Does this really work ? (I don't have Melodyne and discuss on behalf of a friend of mine).

-Michael
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2017, 04:38 PM   #142
insub
Human being with feelings
 
insub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Louisville, KY, USA
Posts: 1,075
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Unless you load Melodyne as item FX?
Well dang. I had never even considered trying that option. I'll try it out tonight if I have time. But, that doesn't solve the original transfer time or any of the tempo wizardry that Melodyne can do as a plugin with ARA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottfa View Post
So, is ARA implementation more difficult for Reaper than it is for other DAWs like Sonar or Studio One?
I would guess that, in the case of Studio One, the answer would be that it would be more difficult. Considering that ARA was a joint creation between Presonus & Celemony. So, I'm sure that Presonus was working ARA integration into their plans very early. Possibly before Studio One 2 was released.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Does this really work ? (I don't have Melodyne and discuss on behalf of a friend of mine).
I'll report back tonight, if I'm able. My fear is that Melodyne is locked to the original timeline location that is captured during the initial transfer. Without ARA, I'd be surprised if it would know that the ITEM has been moved. That's how it works as an Insert FX. I'm curious to see what affect using it as an Item FX will be, if any.
__________________
Everything you need to know about samplerates and oversampling... maybe!
My Essential FREE 64bit VST Effects, ReaEQ Presets for Instruments
Windows 10 64 bit; MOTU 828 MKII, Audio Express, & 8PRE; Behringer ADA8000
insub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2017, 08:07 PM   #143
insub
Human being with feelings
 
insub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Louisville, KY, USA
Posts: 1,075
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
But without ARA, you can't move the items that are Melodyned in time, any more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Unless you load Melodyne as item FX?
I tried running Melodyne as a Take FX on an Item. Once the audio is transferred into Melodyne Plugin you can make your edits to the audio and then move the item around with the edits intact without rendering. However, these are the things that do not work in my very quick test.

Changing the item Fade-In or Fade-Out has ZERO effect. Crossfading, likewise, will not work with the Melodyne Take FX items. Overlapping one to another just causes them both to play at the same time and volume.

Splitting the item does retain Melodyne edits, but has random weird-ness.
The audio may not stop playing at the end when a split section has been moved/removed. Reducing the length of a split item may or may not cause the audio to stop during that duration. If it does stop, it won't be precisely where your item's end edge is. You're moved, split-out section may play longer than the item's length.

Ultimately, the results are too buggy to bother with. It's better to avoid splitting and fading/crossfading. Those should probably all have occurred before transferring to Melodyne Plugin. Or, splitting/duplicating/arranging should be done inside the plugin itself once the audio has been transferred.

Of note: I used the VST3 verions of the Melodyne 4.1.1 Plugin in REAPER 5.62. Running the audio project from a USB3 flash drive on an Intel (dual) Core i7-5600U 2.6GHz laptop with 8GB RAM in Windows 10 Pro 1703.
__________________
Everything you need to know about samplerates and oversampling... maybe!
My Essential FREE 64bit VST Effects, ReaEQ Presets for Instruments
Windows 10 64 bit; MOTU 828 MKII, Audio Express, & 8PRE; Behringer ADA8000
insub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2017, 09:13 PM   #144
Mercado_Negro
Moderator
 
Mercado_Negro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Caracas, Venezuela
Posts: 8,676
Default

I solved my need for ARA in REAPER... Just use both Melodyne and VocAlign in StudioOne and bring all the stems back in REAPER

Melodyne isn't as stable in REAPER anyways so yeah, S1 is the right tool for both tasks.
__________________
Pressure is what turns coal into diamonds - Michael a.k.a. Runaway
Mercado_Negro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2017, 09:39 PM   #145
insub
Human being with feelings
 
insub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Louisville, KY, USA
Posts: 1,075
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
I solved my need for ARA in REAPER... Just use both Melodyne and VocAlign in StudioOne and bring all the stems back in REAPER

Melodyne isn't as stable in REAPER anyways so yeah, S1 is the right tool for both tasks.
Thanks, Mercado.
Do you have Melodyne Studio? Can you comment to the difference in running Melodyne Studio standalone vs ARA in Studio One?
__________________
Everything you need to know about samplerates and oversampling... maybe!
My Essential FREE 64bit VST Effects, ReaEQ Presets for Instruments
Windows 10 64 bit; MOTU 828 MKII, Audio Express, & 8PRE; Behringer ADA8000
insub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2017, 10:32 PM   #146
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,690
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by insub View Post
I tried running Melodyne as a Take FX on an Item....
Thanks a lot for testing and reporting !
-Michael
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2017, 04:35 AM   #147
Mercado_Negro
Moderator
 
Mercado_Negro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Caracas, Venezuela
Posts: 8,676
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by insub View Post
Thanks, Mercado.
Do you have Melodyne Studio? Can you comment to the difference in running Melodyne Studio standalone vs ARA in Studio One?
Yes, we use Melodyne Studio. The main difference is you can use other effects on your channels and editing is much easier in StudioOne.
__________________
Pressure is what turns coal into diamonds - Michael a.k.a. Runaway
Mercado_Negro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2017, 08:49 AM   #148
Stevie
Human being with feelings
 
Stevie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Ukraine, Russia
Posts: 255
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by insub View Post
However, these are the things that do not work in my very quick test.
a lot of crushes in practice, lote more than trackfx
Stevie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 01:01 AM   #149
lolilol1975
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,739
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
I think the simplest solution is to just use the NEW Realodyne plugin.

Exactly. Instead of wasting more time on ARA, "just" write Cockos Melodyne, better than Melodyne.
I'm sure it's possible (just very difficult), with the help of machine learning.
Sell it as a separate Cockos product and HIRE some talented dude just for that. Problem (almost) solved. Then use the new expertise to insert intelligent algorithms everywhere, from pitch shifting, to tempo, smart compression, etc.

Last edited by lolilol1975; 12-03-2017 at 01:07 AM.
lolilol1975 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 08:09 AM   #150
planetnine
Human being with feelings
 
planetnine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 7,924
Default

You might just want to look at this thread...



>
__________________
Nathan, Lincoln, UK. | Item Marker Tool. (happily retired) | Source Time Position Tool. | CD Track Marker Tool. | Timer Recording Tool. | dB marks on MCP faders FR.
planetnine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 09:36 AM   #151
Jae.Thomas
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
Default

no, dont. You all dont deserve it.
Jae.Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 10:17 AM   #152
citizenkeith
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ohio
Posts: 978
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
no, dont. You all dont deserve it.
...
citizenkeith is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2019, 07:17 AM   #153
vitalker
Human being with feelings
 
vitalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,333
Default

So how much money did you collect?
vitalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.