Old 06-10-2024, 08:02 AM   #1
jbraner
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Default SONG: Then There's That

Hi,

I've got a new song out. It's called "Then There's That" - you can check it out here:
https://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=14796486

It features all the usual suspects:
Superior Drums
MODO Bass
Real guitars (mostly my new Paoletti)
various synths and/or Kontakt noises



Made in Reaper, of course


Have a listen if you're interested, and all comments are welcome.
Thanks.
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Old 06-10-2024, 02:29 PM   #2
eq1
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Some interesting moments in this one... It's kind of funny - I listen to quite a bit of DIY material, mostly around here, and I think I'm starting to actually like the more raw and 'unrefined' mixes. I'd say yours is pretty much like that.

You might get more mileage out of this composition if you bring the drums out a little more in the mix (mainly kick and snare), maybe add a touch of ambiance on lead guitar, and possibly try to spread the frequency range of instruments out a little wider - right now they seem pretty mid-range focused. I guess in general, yeah, I realize guitar is the focus, but as-is it seems a little too focused, like it needs to blend a little more with other stuff, needs to feel more supported by other instruments. The above suggestions might achieve some of that, I think.

Thanks for posting your work.
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Old 06-11-2024, 01:20 AM   #3
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Hi eq1 - thanks a lot for listening and for your comments.
I think there are some good ones there.
I'm never sure how much to bring the drums out. One day the snare is way too loud and annoying and the next day, the exact same snare is OK


There certainly is a guitar focus - but I'll have to think about how to work with that.
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Old 06-11-2024, 08:02 AM   #4
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I liked it, some nice guitar work, and interesting drum time signatures, I like the synth parts as well, great work!
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Old 06-11-2024, 10:09 AM   #5
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Hi JMTee - well, thanks for taking the time to have a listen!


A lot of the synth parts are Minimal Audio Current - I like this synth.
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Old 06-11-2024, 02:59 PM   #6
eq1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbraner View Post
...I'm never sure how much to bring the drums out. One day the snare is way too loud and annoying and the next day, the exact same snare is OK. There certainly is a guitar focus - but I'll have to think about how to work with that.
I listened again and this time couldn't say that the drums, "mainly kick and snare," needed to come out a little more, exactly. Sometimes they were quite prominent, like in the beginning. In any event, I recorded your stream and made a master FX chain for it (see attached), in Reaper, using just a few stock plugins, like EQ. I think this gets it closer to what I was envisioning the mix needed. Try it out and see if it does anything for you.

In the end it was mainly cutting around 360Hz, a lot between about 1k and 4.5k, and boosting yet somewhat better controlling the low-end. I'm not great with compression and didn't spend too much time with that. I stuck a limiter at the end of chain. There's also a really low frequency synth pad in places, like beginning, that has some serious rumble, and that might not be controlled very well, I didn't bother switching over to headphones that have better low-end (I did these FX mostly with HD650 headphones, briefly tested on some 5" monitors).

If nothing else, this FX chain will give you a different perspective on your mix/master, and should help. It really just beefs it up a little, makes it sound more full and has more power, yet at the same time I'm pretty sure nothing is lost, like detail. Try doing an A-B comparison with your original, flip back and forth... There's things I would do to the mix at the track level that I couldn't achieve with master FX. In general, the main/lead guitar alone probably needs some EQ tweaking, cutting some mids/low-mids. Probably some instrument-level compression and/or volume adjustments with other instruments in places...

edit: Oh yeah, one more thing. I added a volume adjustment at end of chain that should bring the level close to original, so when you compare you just hear mix-differences not volume difference. But, you could turn that off and make it 2.5db louder... Not sure if I had that ON or OFF when I saved the attached chain.

Last edited by eq1; 06-11-2024 at 03:10 PM.
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Old 06-12-2024, 05:49 AM   #7
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Hi eq1,


Thanks a lot for taking the time to play around with this.
Our listening environments must be very different though - because this mix just doesn't sound very good over here. It's the eq. Over here, there's more bottom, but it's all very muddy and congested.
As soon as I lose the eq plugin, I can hear my space between instruments


Otherwise the other plugins aren't really doing a lot. Well, the limiter is, but I've already run this through a limiter (the very nice "El Juan" by Korneff audio).


So, I don't know what to say, but something is getting lost in translation.
Thanks for your interest though - I like being able to sanity check things
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Old 06-12-2024, 01:50 PM   #8
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hmm, could be monitoring environments. I've checked on HD650s, AKG371s, and 5" Presonus at modest volume. I'm pretty sure the overall tonality and soundstage of your mix is off in the directions my FX try to help. My FX are still too boomy, low mids are a little cluttered, but the general direction clearly seems right to me. Your mix is boxy/mid-rangey, fairly narrow, and the space lacks a certain coherence, like if I compare to reference tracks. Have you compared to reference tracks?

I have a hard time believing that, say, if you did an A-B comparison between your mix and practically any off-the-shelf commercial mix you wouldn't walk away saying, 'My mix lacks low-end, is too mid-rangey, and too narrow.' Of course it's your song/mix and you can do it any way you want. I'm just saying... Might be worth a second look.
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Old 06-13-2024, 01:32 AM   #9
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So - any changes need to be done from the bottom up. There's too much already in there - to just put a simple eq (or whatever) over the top.


I do appreciate your ideas though - I'll have a think about it...
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Old 06-18-2024, 07:22 AM   #10
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Excellent playing as always JB, mix sounded great on my kit(not that would tell you much!) Always loved a strong tremolo, just something about it that appeals to my ears. Cheers BK
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Old 06-18-2024, 11:53 AM   #11
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Hi Barry - how are you doing these days?
Thanks a lot for listening.
I still think the mix sounds OK here too - but I'm always willing to think about it when someone says otherwise.
Of course (and you'll know this) no matter what you do - somebody will like it and somebody won't 😉
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Old 06-19-2024, 03:17 AM   #12
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Hi Jon, Music -it's a lottery ain't it. You can't please 'em all! Glad you're still beavering away and still knocking out quality stuff. As for me, I think my muse has deserted me and struggle to come up with anything I haven't already done. It is very frustrating. I've had a brush with some "live" musicians recently and surprisingly still have the bass and vocal chops but the only oldtimers advertising nowadays just want to play 60's hash ups. Did that in the 60's! I'll hold out for a country rock or blues band but with very little hope. Old age isa bitch but the alternative is even worse. Keep smiling and churning them out. Regards BK.
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Old 06-19-2024, 03:54 AM   #13
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Hi Barry,

I can empathise - it's not easy finding people to play with. (and get along with, musically)

Re: coming up with something new, I'd suggest firing up a new soft synth (either free or splash out and buy one) and play around with some new sounds. Then play around with the sequencer (if the synth doesn't have one, there are plenty of free MIDI sequencers around).
That's a good way to come up with new ideas.
Either that or pick a song you like a lot - and work on something "based on" it. When I do this, I usually wind up with something that sounds nothing like like what it's "based on". (which is the whole point - you're not really looking to copy something)
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Old 06-19-2024, 10:12 AM   #14
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Hi Jon yep good advice but I just feel like I have no new music left in me. Hopefully it will change but it's been several m0onths now. Maybe it is just old age?................
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Old 06-20-2024, 11:26 AM   #15
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New synth, new sounds, new inspirations.
Also try different rythms, genres i.e break patterns.
i KNOW you have new things in you. Just let it go.
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Old 06-20-2024, 12:52 PM   #16
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<thumbs up emoji>
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Old 06-23-2024, 12:11 PM   #17
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many accomplished things going on in what seems a rather complex piece to create and record.
that synth 'Current' you have used is putting forth some excellent additions!
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Old 06-23-2024, 12:53 PM   #18
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Hi prom,
Thanks a lot for listening and for your comments.
Yeah Current has some pretty cool sounds
Re complexity - it's just really built up a little at a time
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Old 06-23-2024, 02:40 PM   #19
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I like it!
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Old 06-24-2024, 01:08 AM   #20
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Hi atomlux -thanks a lot for having a listen
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