Old 02-25-2020, 01:41 AM   #1
CoffeeQuest
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Default Which computer would you choose?

I'm about to buy one of two computers which are very similar, but perhaps I'm missing something, so wanted to ask for advice.

They will be used to do primarily audio and some game development and occasional gaming. I usually do SFX work and have lots of tracks going with many FXs on. Sometimes I do musical stuff with many Kontakt libraries etc. and can sometime spend 16+GB of ram. The occasional noise reduction with RX eats tons of CPU.

The two computers in question are these:

PC1:

CPU: Ryzen 3700X, 8 Cores, 16 Threads @3.6GHz
MoBo: Asus TUF X570-Plus
RAM: Corsair 32GB DDR4-3200 DualChannel RAM
GPU: Asus GeForce RTX 2070S 8GB Evo
Primary HD: Samsung 970 EVO Plus 1TB SSD
2nd HD: Intel 660p 1TB M.2 SSD
3rd HD: Crucial MX500 1TB 2.5" SSD
Cooling: Arctic Freezer 34
Power Supply: Corsair RM750 750W 80plus gold
Casing: Vision X2 Silent Casing


PC2:

CPU: i9-9900K(F), 8 Cores, 16 Threads @3.60 GHz
MoBo: ASUS TUF Z390 PLUS GAMING (WiFi, 5 GHZ)
RAM: 32GB 2666MHZ HYPERX
GPU: ASUS RTX2070 Super 8GB Dual Evo
Primary HD: Samsung 970 EVO Plus 1TB SSD
2nd HD: Intel 660p 1TB M.2 SSD
3rd HD: Crucial MX500 1TB 2.5" SSD
Cooling: Arctic Freezer 34
Power Supply: CORSAIR VS 650W 80+
Casing: Corsair 275Q (Silent)

The price are identical, so it's simply a matter which is "best".
The main difference I see is the CPU, where the Intel(PC1) has sligthly better scores on Userbench, but the Ryzen(PC2). PC2 has better (faster) RAM, but that should only be a factor if I decide to overclock the CPU, which I'm not sure is a good idea. I want the computer to be silent and I think (not sure) that an overclocked CPU makes more noise? The power supplies are different as well, but I'm not sure how this factors in. I know that Ryzen doesn't play well with Thunderbolt, but I don't use that.

I'm leaning towards PC1 because of the better CPU specs, but perhaps I'm missing something, so please share if you know something.
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Old 02-25-2020, 02:00 AM   #2
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Personally, I use a Ryzen 7 3700X with 16GB RAM at home.

If the prices are the same, I would recommend you the 9900K because it has a better single thread performance which helps in the audio category.
On the other hand, Ryzen 7 3700X is ahead of the 9900K(F) in multi-core workload.

In my country, a 9900K is almost 50% more expensive than the Ryzen 7 3700X.

A 9900K has a higher TDP than the Ryzen 7 3700X. 95W vs 65W. In high loads, the 9900K goes to almost 128W and the 3700X to 95W max.

I don't overclock it because I'm happy with the performance. It's overkill for what I do.
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Old 02-25-2020, 06:49 AM   #3
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If you're a heavy VSTi user, you will get slightly better performance out of the Intel machine.

See here for actual data on this subject:
http://www.scanproaudio.info/tag/dawbench/

You'll need to scroll down a bit. The juiciest stats are these for virtual instrument users:
http://www.scanproaudio.info/wp-cont...2-1024x537.jpg
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Old 02-25-2020, 08:09 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreiT View Post
If the prices are the same, I would recommend you the 9900K because it has a better single thread performance which helps in the audio category.
Could others confirm this? I got my i5 back in 2017 for this reason but when I brought it up recently I got told off (of course, it's the internet) for saying something outdated because core count would be more important.

Personally, I wouldn't even bother with the RTX but if it's a package deal then I suppose you have no choice. I'm running a GTX 1050TI and I even play some light games with it.

I would also take the 'silent' casing with a grain of salt. You probably still want to put it far away from any sound source you want to record.

As for SSDs, I personally prefer the Samsung Pro over the Evo. I don't know how it is now, but back when I got mine I got very good warranty with it. Plus that its memory technology will physically last longer.
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Old 02-25-2020, 08:22 AM   #5
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If AMD will ever get the B550 chipset out, I will be building myself a new Ryzen 3700X based DAW. There are way too many "Intel Exclusive" chip level exploitable holes that have to be patched for my blood.

This is an output from a very old AMD I have in the house. Note all the "Not Affected" entries. Every one of those are "Intel Only" items that have to be patched for security. Only Spectre has to be patched on an AMD.

Quote:
/sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/l1tf:Not affected
/sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/mds:Not affected
/sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/meltdown:Not affected
/sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/spec_store_bypass:Not affected
/sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/spectre_v1:Mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer sanitization
/sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/spectre_v2:Mitigation: Full AMD retpoline, STIBP: disabled, RSB filling
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Old 02-25-2020, 08:54 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreiT View Post
Personally, I use a Ryzen 7 3700X with 16GB RAM at home.

If the prices are the same, I would recommend you the 9900K because it has a better single thread performance which helps in the audio category.
On the other hand, Ryzen 7 3700X is ahead of the 9900K(F) in multi-core workload.

In my country, a 9900K is almost 50% more expensive than the Ryzen 7 3700X.

A 9900K has a higher TDP than the Ryzen 7 3700X. 95W vs 65W. In high loads, the 9900K goes to almost 128W and the 3700X to 95W max.

I don't overclock it because I'm happy with the performance. It's overkill for what I do.
Thanks, I'm leaning towards the Intel.
But does the Intel will use more power and perhaps needs more cooling?
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Old 02-25-2020, 10:20 AM   #7
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I have just gone to an all SSD computer
By that I mean I installed all SSD's in my old computer.
Runs very much cooler than with one 250SSD and two 1TB HD's.
(new has 1x250 1x500 2x1TB SSD's).

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Old 02-25-2020, 10:30 AM   #8
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PC1 has faster/better RAM so I'd go with that

the amd vs intel and gpu stuff I don't think matter as much

you can throttle cpu so it runs slower/cooler/quieter... or just throw the case in another room, which I've done before in studio builds
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Old 02-25-2020, 11:14 AM   #9
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If you don't use pci-e 4.0 you could even go with a b450 board. I'm looking at the msi tomahawk max with a 3900x myself. Probably with a noctua u12s cooler and a couple of extra case fans to keep temperatures under control. Most likely I'll run all cores at 4.0ghz at the lowest voltage possible. What I like about the AMD build is that you can upgrade to a 12 or 16 core at a later time should you need more power in the future. Good ram (Samsung b-die) that can run at 3600ghz with low timings should also help performance. I'm looking at these myself:

G.Skill Trident Z Neo Series RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3600 PC4-28800 CL16 Dual Channel Memory Kit F4-3600C16D-32GTZNC

Might be interesting to look at the buildzoid Reddit thread as well, he has lots of good info on motherboards for ryzen
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Old 02-25-2020, 03:42 PM   #10
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Here is a signifacent difference which will
effect your performance:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoffeeQuest View Post
PC1:
RAM: Corsair 32GB DDR4-3200 DualChannel RAM

PC2:
RAM: 32GB 2666MHZ HYPERX
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Old 02-25-2020, 08:44 PM   #11
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I'd go with PC2 - all other things being equal, when it comes to raw performance (and you need that with power hungry plugins like RX) Intel still rules.
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Old 02-26-2020, 01:04 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enroe View Post
Here is a signifacent difference which will
effect your performance:
Yeah, I'm pondering about that one as well.
Do you really think that will make that much of a difference?
I've read that Intel CPUs cannot utilize more than 2666 Mhz in the Ram without overclocking the CPU.
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Old 02-26-2020, 01:05 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter5992 View Post
I'd go with PC2 - all other things being equal, when it comes to raw performance (and you need that with power hungry plugins like RX) Intel still rules.
That's my thought as well. How would you think about it if I blew my budget a bit and went for the Ryzen 3900x instead?
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Old 02-26-2020, 07:46 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoffeeQuest View Post
Yeah, I'm pondering about that one as well.
Do you really think that will make that much of a difference?
I've read that Intel CPUs cannot utilize more than 2666 Mhz in the Ram without overclocking the CPU.
Yes, that is THE difference between your two PC-suggestions:
The CPU works directly on the RAM-storage, and here the
AMD-PC is 20% better.
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Old 02-26-2020, 07:50 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoffeeQuest View Post
How would you think about it if I blew my budget a bit and went for the Ryzen 3900x instead?
I don't have the benchmarks of the 3900X at the moment, but it
might be a huge step. Undoubtly choosing the 3950X would be
a super huge step!
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Old 02-26-2020, 12:12 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
If AMD will ever get the B550 chipset out, I will be building myself a new Ryzen 3700X based DAW. There are way too many "Intel Exclusive" chip level exploitable holes that have to be patched for my blood.

This is an output from a very old AMD I have in the house. Note all the "Not Affected" entries. Every one of those are "Intel Only" items that have to be patched for security. Only Spectre has to be patched on an AMD.
I fear I'm not technical enough to understand what this means. So it's a security concern?
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Old 02-26-2020, 12:33 PM   #17
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Put a gun to my head I'd choose the 750W PSU over the 650W.
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Old 02-26-2020, 02:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoffeeQuest View Post
I fear I'm not technical enough to understand what this means. So it's a security concern?
This article gets into the differences.

https://www.tomshardware.com/feature...ure-processors

One of the highlights from the article.

Quote:
AMD's CPUs, including the latest Ryzen and Epyc processors, are immune to:

Meltdown (Spectre v3)
Spectre v3a
LazyFPU
TLBleed
Spectre v1.2
L1TF/Foreshadow
SPOILER
SpectreRSB
MDS attacks (ZombieLoad, Fallout, RIDL)
SWAPGS
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Old 02-26-2020, 11:35 PM   #19
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Put a gun to my head I'd choose the 750W PSU over the 650W.
Good point! I would not save money and would choose a power supply of 850 watts or more. What for? A large power reserve guarantees that at rated load the power supply fan will not spin at all, which will give silence. And silence, for a musician’s computer, is not the last parameter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
This article gets into the differences.

https://www.tomshardware.com/feature...ure-processors

One of the highlights from the article.
Curious, but I always perceived such articles as noise. Seriously, do these theoretical vulnerabilities have any real danger? I believe that this is a good reason to put pressure on a competitor, but nothing more.

Last edited by cool; 02-26-2020 at 11:41 PM.
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Old 02-26-2020, 11:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoffeeQuest View Post
Thanks, I'm leaning towards the Intel.
But does the Intel will use more power and perhaps needs more cooling?
Go for an AIO 240mm or a good air cooler like beQuiet Dark Rock 4 or Noctua.
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Old 02-27-2020, 09:33 AM   #21
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I don't think Intel is much faster than AMD, so I wouldn't base a decision on that. You won't be able to have much more plugins running or anything, maybe one or two here and there, I'm guessing...

https://www.techspot.com/article/187...en-vs-core-i9/

RAM however can be a big improvement on over speed of the system, loading times, etc... it's not as sexy to talk about though I agree...
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Old 02-27-2020, 10:33 AM   #22
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Quote:
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Put a gun to my head I'd choose the 750W PSU over the 650W.
I like this response. So visceral! Haha. It is certainly a factor
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Old 02-27-2020, 11:46 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomm View Post
I don't think Intel is much faster than AMD, so I wouldn't base a decision on that. You won't be able to have much more plugins running or anything, maybe one or two here and there, I'm guessing...

https://www.techspot.com/article/187...en-vs-core-i9/

RAM however can be a big improvement on over speed of the system, loading times, etc... it's not as sexy to talk about though I agree...
The i9-9900K is faster on single core activities, but the 3700 is faster on some multicore activities. I ended up blowing my budget a bit and went for the 3900x since it competed with the 9900K on many single core activities (Intel was still a bit better for gaming, but that's not a concern for me). The 3900x is much better at multi threading than the 9900k. The faster Ram was also a selling point. Then on top of that there's a better power supply, USB 3.2, and PCIe 4 on the AMD compatible motherboard which is nice if I someday want to get an PCIe SSD which are looking promising.
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