Please: NO SPLITS option when recording takes

[Swi]

When recording audio, and if or when I record more than one time on the same track in the same spot, Reaper auto splits every beginning and end. For example, If I record from bar 2 to near bar 4 and press stop, then record from bar 3 to near bar 5 then stop I end up with 3 items that I then need to clean up.
The longer the recording and the higher number of takes recorded at different times and naturally different end times the more mess I have to deal with afterward.

I am not interested in loop record and I understand that some of you deal with this issue this way.

This auto splitting behavior should be an option that one can turn off so that all takes autofill to the length of earliest beginnings and latest endings of what was recorded into the take list or into the overlapping location.

And here is a video in there is any confusion.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/gqynK5QGwwz4r2JY8

And here is a link to some images of before and after I run my script to repair this.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gnb80n0fw...VHPQSkWNa?dl=0

This "Auto split" should be a pref or an option that can be turned on and off. The image titled "Before" is how Reaper behaves now (Auto split on) and the image titled "After" would be how I wish it looked after making these three recordings on the same track (auto split off).

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by Swi

This "Auto split" should be a pref or an option that can be turned on and off. The image titled "Before" is how Reaper behaves now (Auto split on) and the image titled "After" would be how I wish it looked after making these three recordings on the same track (auto split off).

Agreed 100%

A Pref would be ideal. One where Takes split with underlying takes, and one where it behaves like lanes, except that they are really takes allowing users to cut as they want.

[_Stevie_]

Yup, +1 from me as well

[JohnnyMusic]

A lot of people don't like the splitting that occurs with takes, please, please implement an idea like this!
I think it was forum member ferropop who proposed an alternative to the splitting.
But even the simple functionality described by the OP here would make me very happy.
Thanks!

[foxAsteria]

Take lanes suck. Don't use them. Or just complain for another 10 years. Who knows?

[bobobo]

using free item positioning avoids splits with recorded takes in one track

[mlprod]

Originally Posted by bobobo

using free item positioning avoids splits with recorded takes in one track

But they are not takes, which is what this is about.

Plus 1 from me, just a simple option.

[DanSwizer]

I fully support!

[bFooz]

+1

Here's that thread discussing improvements to take splitting:

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=224536

[Vagelis]

Agree +1!

[Swi]

Another way of saying this would be...
under the options menu/ New recording that overlaps existing media items,
"Creates new take without splitting"

[Meo-Ada Mespotine]

This thing alone would make the takes system useable for me.

[Nostrap]

+1 this is something that bothers me too

[oblh]

As far as I know this is one of the top complain people note when trying Reaper, and really one of the very few things that bother me in Reaper from the beginning and can't find some normal workaround. Quite don't understand the logic behind forcing takes to split. Maybe it makes somewhere, but for example when recording pool of midi with edrums.. it's a nightmare! and even heal does not work here! I am not sure if this is so hard to do, but if that split part of the code can be switched off by some checkbox in settings that would be more than an ideal Xmas gift

[Swi]

Originally Posted by oblh

can't find some normal workaround.

Here is my workaround. You have to have only one track and recording (with it's collection of splits) selected. This is what it should look like after I am done recording a few takes.

Custom: Record Cleanup
Script: X-Raym_Select only tracks of selected items.lua
Script: me2beats_Copy track name to clipboard.lua
Time selection: Set time selection to items
Take: Explode takes of items across tracks
Item: Heal splits in items
Item: Fit items to time selection, padding with silence if needed
Script: X-Raym_Select only tracks of selected items.lua
Script: amagalma_Implode items across tracks into takes (remove empty tracks).lua
Script: X-Raym_Select only tracks of selected items.lua
SWS: Enable master/parent send on selected track(s)
Script: Archie_Track; Paste selected track name .lua
SWS: Save current track selection
SWS: Select only parent(s) of selected folder track(s)
SWS: Set selected track(s) children to same color
SWS: Restore saved track selection
Action: Wait 0.5 seconds before next action
Track: Go to previous track
Item: Unselect all items
Item: Select all items on selected tracks in current time selection
Script: Archie_Item; Delete selected items in time selection(`).lua
Track: Go to next track
Item: Select all items on selected tracks in current time selection
Script: me2beats_Move selected items to previous track.lua
Track: Remove tracks
Script: X-Raym_Select only tracks of selected items.lua
View: Toggle zoom to selected items

[Meo-Ada Mespotine]

Originally Posted by Swi

Here is my workaround. You have to have only one track and recording (with it's collection of splits) selected. This is what it should look like after I am done recording a few takes.

Custom: Record Cleanup
Script: X-Raym_Select only tracks of selected items.lua
Script: me2beats_Copy track name to clipboard.lua
Time selection: Set time selection to items
Take: Explode takes of items across tracks
Item: Heal splits in items
Item: Fit items to time selection, padding with silence if needed
Script: X-Raym_Select only tracks of selected items.lua
Script: amagalma_Implode items across tracks into takes (remove empty tracks).lua
Script: X-Raym_Select only tracks of selected items.lua
SWS: Enable master/parent send on selected track(s)
Script: Archie_Track; Paste selected track name .lua
SWS: Save current track selection
SWS: Select only parent(s) of selected folder track(s)
SWS: Set selected track(s) children to same color
SWS: Restore saved track selection
Action: Wait 0.5 seconds before next action
Track: Go to previous track
Item: Unselect all items
Item: Select all items on selected tracks in current time selection
Script: Archie_Item; Delete selected items in time selection(`).lua
Track: Go to next track
Item: Select all items on selected tracks in current time selection
Script: me2beats_Move selected items to previous track.lua
Track: Remove tracks
Script: X-Raym_Select only tracks of selected items.lua
View: Toggle zoom to selected items

This is not a workaround. This is an oddyssey

Thanks for sharing.

[ashcat_lt]

If you’re comping like this, you’re going to have to split the items anyway. If you’re not comping, then maybe takes isn’t what you really want.

[Klangfarben]

Originally Posted by ashcat_lt

If you’re comping like this, you’re going to have to split the items anyway. If you’re not comping, then maybe takes isn’t what you really want.

Except, if not comping there is no other suitable option. Hence the feature request.

[ashcat_lt]

Doesn’t free item positioning do that? Tape style recording? Make a new track?

[Klangfarben]

Originally Posted by ashcat_lt

Doesn’t free item positioning do that? Tape style recording? Make a new track?

Nope. If you want to record an alternate part in the same track, there is no good alternative.

[JayJSE2]

Originally Posted by Klangfarben

Nope. If you want to record an alternate part in the same track, there is no good alternative.

I'm confused here... If you want to record an alternate part for a section of the track AND you want to be able to switch quickly between the two to compare them (or just replace what you already have), then the current system works fine.

But if you mean you're wanting to record a completely different part (that somewhat overlaps with the one you currently have) and see how that goes, why not just create a new track and record to that?

[Klangfarben]

Originally Posted by JayJSE2

But if you mean you're wanting to record a completely different part (that somewhat overlaps with the one you currently have) and see how that goes, why not just create a new track and record to that?

Several reasons. One, in large templates adding another track every time you want to record another part would basically break Reaper. Second, you would need another instance of the virtual instrument as well as any plugins. And third, what happens when you want to try 4 or 5 alternate parts? Are you going to add 5 tracks everytime you want to do that? That would be ridiculous. I could go on but I'll stop there for now.

Here's the thing. No one is saying get rid of the current take system. If you want to loop record or comp takes it's fine. But I'm very surprised that so many people can't understand that having takes not be tied together, that you don't want to automatically cut takes or cut all takes at the same time might not be beneficial to some workflows. The current take system is extremely limited in that regard and the OP is literally just asking to please not automatically split. It's not too much to ask for.

[cool]

I fully support! This function really confused me when I first met Reaper. Even now, I cannot imagine how these splits can be useful in practice.

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by cool

I fully support! This function really confused me when I first met Reaper. Even now, I cannot imagine how these splits can be useful in practice.

The splits as they are now can be very useful, but I don’t want to derail the OP feature request since I agree it should be an option. It needs to be an additional preference... and not deprecate to current way.

PM me if you want and i’ll shhow you how the splits as they are now can be very powerful.

But yeah... big +1 for this feature.

[oblh]

Originally Posted by Swi

Here is my workaround.

Thanks for sharing! however as mentioned - this (and autoheal) will not work for recorded edrums (pool of midi) e.g and you end up with total mess.

the only workaround I was able to find after some newbie headache was this:

1. explode all take to tracks
2. remove all items per track except the first one
3. "recover" the whole track from this little piece
4. implode all tracks back to takes

this is ofc done by several actions (let me know if you would like me to share it)

[oblh]

Originally Posted by ashcat_lt

If you’re comping like this, you’re going to have to split the items anyway. If you’re not comping, then maybe takes isn’t what you really want.

Yes maybe you will split the takes anyway afterwards BUT in places where you WANT to split them (where it makes sense) and how many times you want, not where you RANDOMLY stop the recording each take without any sense to concept x times per track. x = number of takes.

I am totally unsure why there is option almost for anything (in the best way!) and there is not possibility to turn off function with such a huge workflow impact.

Why on earth you would want to have each take cut each time you press randomly stop? I almost always end up with huge number of splits in vain.

With midi there is another huge issue with this function. Each time the split hit the note it will basically create e.g. 2 snare hits instead of one. My edums are not listenable for critical listening once I record few takes. It's just a mess of double hits.

[Klangfarben]

Originally Posted by oblh

Yes maybe you will split the takes anyway afterwards BUT in places where you WANT to split them (where it makes sense) and how many times you want, not where you RANDOMLY stop the recording each take without any sense to concept x times per track. x = number of takes.

I am totally unsure why there is option almost for anything (in the best way!) and there is not possibility to turn off function with such a huge workflow impact.

Why on earth you would want to have each take cut each time you press randomly stop? I almost always end up with huge number of splits in vain.

With midi there is another huge issue with this function. Each time the split hit the note it will basically create e.g. 2 snare hits instead of one. My edums are not listenable for critical listening once I record few takes. It's just a mess of double hits.

I think oblh is my spirit animal lol. Completely agree with everything you said.

[juliansader]

Originally Posted by oblh

Yes maybe you will split the takes anyway afterwards BUT in places where you WANT to split them (where it makes sense) and how many times you want, not where you RANDOMLY stop the recording each take without any sense to concept x times per track. x = number of takes.

I am totally unsure why there is option almost for anything (in the best way!) and there is not possibility to turn off function with such a huge workflow impact.

Why on earth you would want to have each take cut each time you press randomly stop? I almost always end up with huge number of splits in vain.

If you use the recording modes "Time selection auto-punch" or "Auto-punch selected items", REAPER will know what the intended endpoint of the recording is. Then, if you press stop while recording, REAPER will not split items. Instead, the partial recording will be extended with silence to the end.

[oblh]

Originally Posted by juliansader

If you use the recording modes "Time selection auto-punch" or "Auto-punch selected items", REAPER will know what the intended endpoint of the recording is. Then, if you press stop while recording, REAPER will not split items. Instead, the partial recording will be extended with silence to the end.

Hi Julian, many thanks for your suggestion! While this is maybe another workaround, it's definitely not a solution.

We are always trying to be as fast as possible, simply to not lost an idea, groove in hands whatever.

E.g. I don't want to select time selection -> if I would select chorus and I would go ok to the next verse it would be not recorded. Yes I can always select whole track, but..then it makes no sense to do this move every time if this can be avoided by suggested general option.

Again, I remember when I tried to move to Reaper several times before this was always no.1 thing that stopped me (and I bet many other potential Reaper users) like "I don't want to over engineer such a simple thing as to have few simple takes without x splits", therefore even if I have my workaround I believe this feature will move Reaper somehow forward Some simple checkbox in options "Split takes on STOP" or whatever would be just a wonder I am still not sure if this split thing is somehow deeply coded in the heart of Reaper or why is it so complicated to do.

[Swi]

To be a little more clear.
Under the options menu/New recording that overlaps existing media items

I am wanting or looking for an option that would say something like

"no splits in existing items and creates new takes".

[ferropop]

Did some careful consideration of how to improve the current Takes system.
I think the biggest issues come from the use of Splits as active-take boundaries, for a task that Splits really are not intended for.

I present...


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[Joe90]

+1 on this.

It's especially infuriating on midi parts, as the split results in a split on the actual midi note, and even when you heal/glue the part back together, the splits in the midi notes remain, so it can actually screw up a midi part pretty fast when dropping in.

Yes we can use lanes, but they have their own set of issues. The comping workflow when using takes is excellent and clearly many agree with this, imo it's one of the best and most intuitive I've found in any DAW, but the splits can make it such a pain to deal with.

Ferro's suggestion is cool, but until then (if it even ever happens) how about an option to just turn off the splitting as the OP suggested - I understand that these splits are being used to dictate take boundaries, but why can't all takes just take the length of whatever the longest take is, with no splits? Kind of like when you use 'time selection auto punch' mode, all takes will always be the same length, but instead of needing to decide on a time selection beforehand (which is not always practical) it just automatically adapts, if a take is recorded that is shorter and contained within the current item size, it doesn't change size or create splits, it just has blank space in the shorter take to fill it out so it matches the length of the longest take. If you record a take that is longer than the initial item you're recording the take into, then the WHOLE ITEM just extends at whichever end it needs to.

No actual content is altered, and it shouldn't affect functionality at all unless I've missed something.

Thoughts?

[artjam]

Its been almost 10 years since the first time someone requested this very change , it might be that this request never reached the devs

[Joe90]

I just want to clarify my previous post with some gifs, as it wasn't super clear.

Currently if you record a few takes that overlap like this -



You end up with the mess of splits we are talking about. I've got a custom action that explodes all the takes, heals them, then implodes them back into one item without splits, which basically does what I'm asking for, just creates blank space around the smaller takes so everything is always as long as the longest take, like this -



As you can see from the gif I have to stretch out my repaired item at the end, as the action doesn't work perfectly for some reason, but hopefully this makes my suggestion a bit clearer.

[karbomusic]

That part of the second GIF where there are 3 and 2 adjacent takes and they don't align vertically, there's a setting to prevent that so they align FYI. Also, it's probably easier to extend the existing takes because that creates the same result (If I'm thinking about this correctly and scripting can extend the take length) without the need to explode/implode.

Usually, you can just "drag out" the splits and get the same thing is what I'm saying - if that can be scripted, it's better.

[emarsk]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

I can't participate in that thread because I love splits

Wow, that didn't last long, did it?

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by emarsk

Wow, that didn't last long, did it?

Still staying out hopefully I had just noticed what I explained might be a cleaner way to do what the OP wanted. There's a trick I use in certain scenarios where you can drag out the splits and end up with the same thing (barring anything I forgot). Not sure if that can be scripted though.

[chip mcdonald]

Originally Posted by Swi

When recording audio, and if or when I record more than one time on the same track in the same spot,

Why don't you have an empty, muted track below it and every time you stop the transport you just put what you just did there?

[Klangfarben]

Originally Posted by chip mcdonald

Why don't you have an empty, muted track below it and every time you stop the transport you just put what you just did there?

Do you realize the sheer number of tracks you would end up with in this scenario? Especially if you are already starting with a large template (500± tracks)? Also this would be unmanageable for tracks with VSTi or tracks with plugins. Not really a solution unfortunately.

[chip mcdonald]

Originally Posted by Klangfarben

Do you realize the sheer number of tracks you would end up with in this scenario? Especially if you are already starting with a large template (500± tracks)? Also this would be unmanageable for tracks with VSTi or tracks with plugins. Not really a solution unfortunately.

You'll note I wasn't responding to you or your example.

Your use is different than the poster I was replying to.