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Old 08-09-2020, 09:55 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Shootkin View Post
Actually, I would discard for good the Time Selection at all — who in needs that shit? Make area selections in Tracks.
Just because you don’t have a use for it, doesn’t mean others don’t. And I would strongly suggest to rethink your tone, too. This kind of behavior doesn’t get you anywhere, here. Keep it on a respectful level.
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Old 08-09-2020, 10:27 AM   #42
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^^ Not to mention it would break lots of custom actions and scripts based on time selection..
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Old 08-09-2020, 10:31 AM   #43
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This version is causing my screen to go black after doing marquee zooms and then it comes back after 3 seconds. Went back to 8086.
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Old 08-09-2020, 11:33 AM   #44
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^^ Not to mention it would break lots of custom actions and scripts based on time selection..
But if time selection APIs non looped resolves to the looped one, actually everything probably stay intact , and time selection could disappear. Loop locators will always have to exist.
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Old 08-09-2020, 12:21 PM   #45
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^^ Not to mention it would break lots of custom actions and scripts based on time selection..
Exactly. And it really strikes me that people think that something deeply established, like time selection would disappear. Especially, if you keep in mind how long it took to have area selection in REAPER.
I think the devs have other things to do than completely ripping out existing features.
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Old 08-09-2020, 12:36 PM   #46
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Sorry Devs .. I must tell you this,: both time selection and area selection modifiers that need empty area are not good UX. I still did not test it, but what happens when there is no space empty , or full zoomed? Tendencily there is no space . Making selection based on the empty space is bad way. Please consider tools. Time selection tool, area selection tool, etc ..
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Old 08-09-2020, 12:53 PM   #47
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I still don't even think you need tools. I think adjusting the context for creating the selection makes more sense.

Time Select = Ruler Drag (the ruler deals with time regardless of tracks/items below, so creating time selections here is completely logical)

Area Select = Arrange Drag (any items in the dragged in area become selected)

Longterm: I'd still favor an approach that allowed for a few "Mouse Modifier Presets" that could be created in various contexts and assigned to actions/toolbar buttons. This way, any user could create a set of mouse modifier presets for various actions and create their own tool-based workflow in the most-Reaper way possible.

Last edited by Funkybot; 08-09-2020 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 08-09-2020, 01:38 PM   #48
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Sorry Devs .. I must tell you this,: both time selection and area selection modifiers that need empty area are not good UX. I still did not test it, but what happens when there is no space empty , or full zoomed? Tendencily there is no space . Making selection based on the empty space is bad way. Please consider tools. Time selection tool, area selection tool, etc ..

But AS doesn’t need empty space if you use the default mouse button

One of the main pillars of REAPER has always been its tool-less editing workflow. It’s ironic that you all get a new tool, complain it’s on the “wrong” button and then complain it conflicts with other things on the button you move it to. Now people want to change a core ethos of REAPER because remembering to use your right mouse button seems too hard..?

I’ve grown used to time selection, but I will agree it has always seemed a little clunky. In the context of 15 years’ ago’s tools and software, it was definitely easy to work with and a none-issue if you swipe the ruler, but I’ve mostly swiped wide and then used snap, markers or adjustment to line it up if needed. I see no issue with setting time selection with the AS if it can be integrated, but resulting in the same old TS. I also have no issue with using AS as a main front-end to conventional cut/copy/move operations either, but we must defer to the guys who will be doing all the work...


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Old 08-09-2020, 01:57 PM   #49
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But AS doesn’t need empty space if you use the default mouse button

One of the main pillars of REAPER has always been its tool-less editing workflow. It’s ironic that you all get a new tool, complain it’s on the “wrong” button and then complain it conflicts with other things on the button you move it to. Now people want to change a core ethos of REAPER because remembering to use your right mouse button seems too hard..?

I’ve grown used to time selection, but I will agree it has always seemed a little clunky. In the context of 15 years’ ago’s tools and software, it was definitely easy to work with and a none-issue if you swipe the ruler, but I’ve mostly swiped wide and then used snap, markers or adjustment to line it up if needed. I see no issue with setting time selection with the AS if it can be integrated, but resulting in the same old TS. I also have no issue with using AS as a main front-end to conventional cut/copy/move operations either, but we must defer to the guys who will be doing all the work...


>
Since it's been giving a way to use left drag, it means Devs recognise the issues from right drag. It's not very natural. The thing is that they are constrained by the evolution of the app. I am pretty sure if they could simply press the magic button to make it happen with left drag and compatible with reaper current state I think they would press the button immediately.

Also your argument of reaper lack of tools .is one of the pillars is very interesting. Is there any editing app other then reaper that does not make use of this tools? Photoshop, illustrator? Other major daws? Final cut, premier? Any? Maybe they do because it simplifies the usage and how to work with app? Instead of huge amount of modifiers and conditionals workflow to do the job.
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Old 08-09-2020, 02:09 PM   #50
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I still don't even think you need tools. I think adjusting the context for creating the selection makes more sense.

Time Select = Ruler Drag (the ruler deals with time regardless of tracks/items below, so creating time selections here is completely logical)

Area Select = Arrange Drag (any items in the dragged in area become selected)
There is 2 time selection versions .. one is the loop, the other is the one applied by the render. So if both are not in sync (my preference for several reasons), the loop version. I like to set in the ruler , but the other doesn't make so much sense/confusing imo. (Actually I would like an option of the render setting: render time selection could refer to the looped version)

Also, area selection with left drag excluding envelopes and ai, is spaguetti UX.

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Longterm: I'd still favor an approach that allowed for a few "Mouse Modifier Presets" that could be created in various contexts and assigned to actions/toolbar buttons. This way, any user could create a set of mouse modifier presets for various actions and create their own tool-based workflow in the most-Reaper way possible.
I guess something like this is what other daws do.
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Old 08-09-2020, 02:32 PM   #51
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Exactly. And it really strikes me that people think that something deeply established, like time selection would disappear. Especially, if you keep in mind how long it took to have area selection in REAPER.
I think the devs have other things to do than completely ripping out existing features.
I agree with this.

where did this idea of removing a central tool comes from? I like both AS and TS...

if someone don't want TS anymore just erase all MMod related to it?... here just AS would not be sufficient

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Old 08-09-2020, 02:36 PM   #52
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Also your argument of reaper lack of tools .is one of the pillars is very interesting. Is there any editing app other then reaper that does not make use of this tools? Photoshop, illustrator? Other major daws? Final cut, premier? Any? Maybe they do because it simplifies the usage and how to work with app? Instead of huge amount of modifiers and conditionals to do the job?
Agreed, simplicity is the key for easier,faster,complex advanced editing imo.

I thought that user customization was also one of the pillars.

It's simple. With tools you can use the same key modifiers for AS,TS,Marquee selection.
Example? You can use the default modifier to create selections for any of these modes, as well as shift+left drag to create selections ignoring snap, or alt+left drag to add to selections.
And use all selection modes with the same key modifiers... How could you achieve that simplicity only with modifiers?
At least with tools you could know for example, that shift could be used everywhere for uses regarding ignoring snap behavior. Even for the item to move it ignoring snap,stretch markers,env points,notes etc..
Also some users might prefer simplifying their workflow with modifiers or using both ways if this option exists.
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Old 08-09-2020, 02:57 PM   #53
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OMG. Why not to add Area Selection left-drags to "Media item bottom half" context?
In dev0808, "Media item bottom half / left drag" can be set to "Area selection".

The only inconvenience with that is that "Media item edge" is still full-height, so Area selection cannot be initiated from those item edges. For that, "Media item bottom half edge / left drag" context would be needed, so it too could be set to Area selection.
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Old 08-09-2020, 03:13 PM   #54
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Sorry Devs .. I must tell you this,: both time selection and area selection modifiers that need empty area are not good UX. I still did not test it, but what happens when there is no space empty , or full zoomed?
If you haven't even bothered to test it, then stop talking about it and extrapolating things.

Until you do, it's just noise.
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Old 08-09-2020, 03:28 PM   #55
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In dev0808, "Media item bottom half / left drag" can be set to "Area selection".
I'll be damned, I was running an old dev version. Thanks for the reminder n997!
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Old 08-09-2020, 03:40 PM   #56
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Since it's been giving a way to use left drag, it means Devs recognise the issues from right drag. ...
I suspect the Devs allowed the left drag context because it was repeatedly asked for.


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It's not very natural.
No, nothing about using a mouse feels “natural” when you first use one, or even a pencil, I guess. If that experience was at a very young age, you probably don’t remember, but new things take a little bit of effort. I’ve been using Marquee Select with right-drag for some years and I find it second nature, I’ve almost forgotten training my middle finger when it came out, yes it felt a bit weird, but now I wonder why more software doesn’t use it.


Quote:
The thing is that they are constrained by the evolution of the app. I am pretty sure if they could simply press the magic button to make it happen with left drag and compatible with reaper current state I think they would press the button immediately.
I’m not sure of this, perhaps we should ask? Remember that we’ve been through all this before with Marquee Select, it seemed a conscious design decision with Left Drag offered as an option on request.

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Also your argument of reaper lack of tools .is one of the pillars is very interesting. Is there any editing app other then reaper that does not make use of this tools? Photoshop, illustrator? Other major daws? Final cut, premier? Any? Maybe they do because it simplifies the usage and how to work with app? Instead of huge amount of modifiers and conditionals workflow to do the job.

Tool-less editing? It was a core feature in the early days, and I think Justin based it on his experience and likes with a video app called Vegas. The interface is reason that you can do so many things with just the mouse and a key press, and was a breath of fresh air after using the audio and video editors at the time. I still don’t like the editing workflow of other DAWs and video editors having used REAPER for so long.


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Old 08-09-2020, 04:48 PM   #57
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I suspect the Devs allowed the left drag context because it was repeatedly asked for.




No, nothing about using a mouse feels “natural” when you first use one, or even a pencil, I guess. If that experience was at a very young age, you probably don’t remember, but new things take a little bit of effort. I’ve been using Marquee Select with right-drag for some years and I find it second nature, I’ve almost forgotten training my middle finger when it came out, yes it felt a bit weird, but now I wonder why more software doesn’t use it.




I’m not sure of this, perhaps we should ask? Remember that we’ve been through all this before with Marquee Select, it seemed a conscious design decision with Left Drag offered as an option on request.




Tool-less editing? It was a core feature in the early days, and I think Justin based it on his experience and likes with a video app called Vegas. The interface is reason that you can do so many things with just the mouse and a key press, and was a breath of fresh air after using the audio and video editors at the time. I still don’t like the editing workflow of other DAWs and video editors having used REAPER for so long.


>
Agree with all, also sibelius also use marquee on the right. and I think is better to marquee with the right and leave left drag to move things around.

Actually the reason I like reaper so much from my noob days is that moving things around is like moving blocks of feathers , other software I always have an sensation of moving things demands a litle bit of more energy to move things. I hate that in Ableton Live I have to aim to the top of an item to move it. Reaper leaves it off the way putting marquee and selections on the right.
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Old 08-09-2020, 10:51 PM   #58
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If you haven't even bothered to test it, then stop talking about it and extrapolating things.

Until you do, it's just noise.
is it different than what i told? description is pretty clear . did you bother to test if i am wrong? if not please don't had noise your self and behave has you have some kind of authority of what is noise or not, unless you want to to be noise corrected by personal opinions on your posts too.
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Old 08-09-2020, 11:00 PM   #59
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I suspect the Devs allowed the left drag context because it was repeatedly asked for.
So it's because there is some need!

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No, nothing about using a mouse feels “natural” when you first use one, or even a pencil, I guess. If that experience was at a very young age, you probably don’t remember, but new things take a little bit of effort. I’ve been using Marquee Select with right-drag for some years and I find it second nature, I’ve almost forgotten training my middle finger when it came out, yes it felt a bit weird, but now I wonder why more software doesn’t use it.
there are mouses and input interfaces that just have one button (example Macs), .. and right click is for opening options in general. You on windows, right?

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Tool-less editing? It was a core feature in the early days, and I think Justin based it on his experience and likes with a video app called Vegas. The interface is reason that you can do so many things with just the mouse and a key press, and was a breath of fresh air after using the audio and video editors at the time. I still don’t like the editing workflow of other DAWs and video editors having used REAPER for so long.
I don't know the history.
Ripple editing mode is a tool. To be coherent , this tool should be in modifiers, but it is not? because it makes sense to separate. Other things would make sense too.
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Old 08-09-2020, 11:07 PM   #60
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unless you want to to be noise corrected by personal opinions on your posts too.
That's a given whether I like it or not
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Old 08-09-2020, 11:13 PM   #61
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That's a given whether I like it or not
It's a given but avoidable like any kind of conflict.
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Old 08-09-2020, 11:17 PM   #62
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So it's because there is some need!



there are mouses and input interfaces that just have one button (example Macs), .. and right click is for opening options in general. You on windows, right?



I don't know the history.
Ripple editing mode is a tool. To be coherent , this tool should be in modifiers, but it is not? because it makes sense to separate. Other things would make sense too.

I think “need” is subjective here, but go look at dev0809

And there are phones that people use as music players without headphone sockets...

It was developed on Windows originally, but you can get proper mice for Mac. I bought jog/shuttle wheels and transport controllers for my machine because I want to have the best workflow...

Ripple editing is a mode. A three-state mode that it is useful to see the status of when (eg) editing radio interviews.


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Old 08-09-2020, 11:27 PM   #63
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I think “need” is subjective here, but go look at dev0809

And there are phones that people use as music players without headphone sockets...

It was developed on Windows originally, but you can get proper mice for Mac. I bought jog/shuttle wheels and transport controllers for my machine because I want to have the best workflow...

Ripple editing is a mode. A three-state mode that it is useful to see the status of when (eg) editing radio interviews.


>
Mac has a proper mouse , for proper application design.
Also having external mouse makes portability less portable.

A mode to switch item selection to area selection would be as useful, if not for you , for other users cases. I use 20% of reaper, the other 80% well not for me but I guess it's useful for someone else. Maybe You can agree this can happen To you too.

I'll check, latest pre, but seems the continuation of left drag on empty space or items only.
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Old 08-09-2020, 11:52 PM   #64
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A mode to switch item selection to area selection would be as useful,
It sound more like an action/script to transform one to another than a "mode"
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Old 08-10-2020, 01:24 AM   #65
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Title, date, and time metadata are added automatically. We'll add an option for this.
Thanks. And FWIW: The option in v6.13+dev0809 seem to work.
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Old 08-10-2020, 01:43 AM   #66
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It sound more like an action/script to transform one to another than a "mode"
Everything is an action while in one mode do something with left drag while in another do something else.
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Old 08-10-2020, 05:50 AM   #67
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I think I am interested on this if it is what I think it is, but I don't know how to test it... anyone knows?
+ MIDI: allow forcing each device control messages to a particular channel
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Old 08-10-2020, 06:44 AM   #68
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I think I am interested on this if it is what I think it is, but I don't know how to test it... anyone knows?
+ MIDI: allow forcing each device control messages to a particular channel

Hi Heda!


That option is found in the MIDI Devices section of the Preferences :





It's rather straightforward; you can simply force an external MIDI controller to send data on a specific MIDI channel - or to respect its source channel, which is the default -.
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Old 08-10-2020, 07:31 AM   #69
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Hi Heda!


That option is found in the MIDI Devices section of the Preferences :




It's rather straightforward; you can simply force an external MIDI controller to send data on a specific MIDI channel - or to respect its source channel, which is the default -.
ahh! Thanks
so it is a global setting... I was looking for something project specific. But it's ok to have it as global setting too.
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