Old 08-09-2020, 04:04 PM   #1
Steviebone
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Default Turn off auto route for folders

Is there a way to turn off the auto routing for folder tracks in reaper? I don't use this feature in reaper as I route to my own busses in my own way. But if I accidentally move a track and drop it in the wrong place it destroys my routing without asking and there doesn't seem to be any way to make it work again without re-creating the tracks from scratch.

I looked in preferences for a while but didn't see anything that stood out. Can anyone please tell me how to prevent this default behavior?
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Old 08-09-2020, 04:11 PM   #2
ashcat_lt
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??? If you’re routing via explicit sends, you should have the master/parent sends off anyway. Then it completely won’t mater where a track sits in a folder structure, and nothing at all should change from moving things around.
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Old 08-09-2020, 04:24 PM   #3
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??? If you’re routing via explicit sends, you should have the master/parent sends off anyway. Then it completely won’t mater where a track sits in a folder structure, and nothing at all should change from moving things around.
No, I don't think so. Don't use master/parent anywhere but if I drag tracks and they happen to accidentally drop underneath another parent track is auto assigns them to the parent.

I don't use folder tracks for routing audio - I use them for visual convenience only. My parent tracks have no audio going in or out of them. This is important for my particular set up.

I have run into this a few times now where I tried to move a group around in the template and if I don't place it just right or my hand slips off the mouse then all the routing screwed up. At this point, even if I tried to reset the routing something in reaper internally keeps it from going back to the original bus and I end up having to re-create the bus on a new track to get the sends to work again.

This is a feature of reaper allowing you to drop the attract into a folder and have it automatically routed to the folder track. None of these tracks had anything checked on master parents send.

It makes sense that would work the way you suggest though so I will do some more testing in a blank template before reach any solid conclusions.
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Old 08-09-2020, 04:31 PM   #4
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No, I don't think so. Don't use master/parent anywhere but if I drag tracks and they happen to accidentally drop underneath another parent track is auto assigns them to the parent.
how strange, maybe i misunderstand, but just moving tracks / folders doesn't reassign/reset sends for me.
Are you using any custom actions or scripts etc which might be assigning routing?
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Old 08-09-2020, 05:47 PM   #5
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It does sometimes happen that the folder routes to a track in the folder, which routes to the folder. See, for example:

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=239307
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Old 08-09-2020, 05:54 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Steviebone View Post
This is a feature of reaper allowing you to drop the attract into a folder and have it automatically routed to the folder track. None of these tracks had anything checked on master parents send.
Thing is the master/parent send tickbox is enabled for new tracks by default because when created as top level tracks they would be silent otherwise (because not sending to master).
Now when putting a top level track in a folder the master send becomes a parent send which you don't want right?
So you'd need an option saying along the lines of "automatically disable master/parent send when track is a child"?

I don't think this option exists currently (someone may correct me) but maybe worth a feature request?

edit:
Hm..I guess you want child tracks to directly send to the master instead?
I wonder if that's even possible currently, not that I know..

Last edited by nofish; 08-09-2020 at 06:04 PM.
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Old 08-11-2020, 02:07 AM   #7
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Thing is the master/parent send tickbox is enabled for new tracks by default because when created as top level tracks they would be silent otherwise (because not sending to master).
Now when putting a top level track in a folder the master send becomes a parent send which you don't want right?
So you'd need an option saying along the lines of "automatically disable master/parent send when track is a child"?

I don't think this option exists currently (someone may correct me) but maybe worth a feature request?

edit:
Hm..I guess you want child tracks to directly send to the master instead?
I wonder if that's even possible currently, not that I know..
Sorry, I had a very busy Monday and have not had a chance to keep up with this thread, nor have I had a chance to do more testing.

But let me be a little more specific about my situation. I don't use folder tracks in reaper the way most people use folder tracks in reaper. I never liked the way things get routed and I wanted to be able to place my busses together in my screen-sets so I use folder tracks for visual purposes only. In other words I deliberately disable all routing to parent tracks. These tracks have no input or output intentionally. Instead I use these tracks for collapsing groups and visual reference only. I intentionally lock their screen height and controls. For me this works better, as I can place all my busses in one place on the screen. It also makes more sense to me because sometimes I have a track going to multiple busses.

Now what happens is if I need to move a particular group and I select the entire group including the parent tracks, and then accidentally drop them underneath another parent folder trying to position them correctly (which can happen quite easily the way the mouse works trying to decide where or what level you want to place the track) then all of the routing for all of those tracks that I was moving seems to get reset and routed to the new parent track which was supposed to receive no input. (Remember that there are no master/parent since checked here. All tracks have this feature to disabled.) This not only screws up the tracks I moved but all of the tracks that were originally underneath the parent folder as well. The children tracks seem to be reassigned to the wrong bus. But reassigning the sends to the proper bus no longer works for some reason. Even after reassigning the tracks to the proper bus, although reaper says the tracks are assigned to the proper bus, that bus never gets their signal. The only way to fix the problem is to destroy the bus and re-create all of the sends. If there are a lot of tracks between the new and old original children this can be quite tedious and annoying.

Granted, I don't do a lot of wholesale moves like this very often but it's still a pain. I know now to do a save directly preceding the move so that if I screw something up I can reload the project and try again. Still it would be nice if there was a way to disable this auto routing feature reaper. Unfortunately I'm not seeing that there is a way to do that. It's not the end of the world, but I was curious if anyone else had ever had the need to disable that feature.

For what it's worth, I've had the behavior of the disappearing sends occur once or twice before and was never able to understand what caused it. By that, I mean that a bus would stop working even though several tracks were assigned to send to it. The tracks would show meter and all of the connections would indicate that they were where they were supposed to be but the bus track would never receive any audio. Destroying the bus track and re-assigning always fix the problem.

@domzy: No I'm not using any scripts for this, just dragging the group with the mouse.
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Old 08-11-2020, 05:41 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Steviebone View Post
The children tracks seem to be reassigned to the wrong bus. But reassigning the sends to the proper bus no longer works for some reason. Even after reassigning the tracks to the proper bus, although reaper says the tracks are assigned to the proper bus, that bus never gets their signal. The only way to fix the problem is to destroy the bus and re-create all of the sends
I still think that the behaviour described suggests feedback routing.

Eg

Tracks 1 to 5 are Folder & children
Track 1 sends to track 8
Track 8 is to be moved, and ends up (accidentally?) in the folder.

So....
Tracks 8 ends up sending to Track 1
(remember, Track 1 sends to track 8)
Where....

File > Project settings > Advanced > Allow feedback in routing

....is unchecked.

The mystery here is why the behaviour wouldn't be corrected as soon as the tracks are removed from the folder. It shouldn't be necessary to rebuild a bus.

Then again....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steviebone View Post
I know now to do a save directly preceding the move so that if I screw something up I can reload the project and try again.
This sot of thing is why I no longer use folders. I do screw things up, frequently, and it's a PITA.

What would be really useful would be some kind of visual indication that feedback routing has occurred.
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Old 08-11-2020, 11:18 AM   #9
Steviebone
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I still think that the behaviour described suggests feedback routing.

Eg

Tracks 1 to 5 are Folder & children
Track 1 sends to track 8
Track 8 is to be moved, and ends up (accidentally?) in the folder.

So....
Tracks 8 ends up sending to Track 1
(remember, Track 1 sends to track 8)
Where....

File > Project settings > Advanced > Allow feedback in routing

....is unchecked.

The mystery here is why the behaviour wouldn't be corrected as soon as the tracks are removed from the folder. It shouldn't be necessary to rebuild a bus.

Then again....

This sot of thing is why I no longer use folders. I do screw things up, frequently, and it's a PITA.

What would be really useful would be some kind of visual indication that feedback routing has occurred.
At one point I actually looked at that feedback routing very closely. I couldn't see that anything like that was occurring. All of the routing appeared to be correct except that the sends to the bus ended up going to a different bus. Reassigning the sends to the correct bus did not fix the problem. For some reason the bus would not receive the information even though it showed both places that the connection was made, that is to say the buss showed a receive from the proper track and the track showed a send to the proper bus. However no meter nor any audio would pass from the track to the reassigned bus. The only thing that fixed it was deleting the bus and re-establishing all of the sends. This included not only the tracks that got moved but other tracks that had not been moved but were sending to that bus.

I know all this sounds confusing because it is. At this point I know how to work around the problem, I know to save the project immediately before any move, and I know to check everything carefully after I make the move before proceeding. Not as easy as simply unchecking a preference but apparently there is no preference to uncheck.

So asked and answered, back to making music...

Thanks for all the input.
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Old 08-11-2020, 12:29 PM   #10
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Can you give us a before and after .RPP to play with? I don’t think we’d need any audio or plugins, as long as we can see the routing and folder structure.
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Old 08-12-2020, 02:50 AM   #11
Steviebone
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Can you give us a before and after .RPP to play with? I don’t think we’d need any audio or plugins, as long as we can see the routing and folder structure.
Well the project in question is 350+ tracks. I can see about maybe trying to load a copy without any of the VST's and then posting that. At the moment I'm under quite a workload and I've moved on. (The workaround works for me - it's not something that comes up often).
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