Old 05-10-2019, 07:55 AM   #1
JamesO512
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Default Reaktor FX issues

I would greatly appreciate any help!

In the section of preferences for VST plugins, there is the checkbox that says “Do not scan VST names/types (deprecated)”. If I leave it unchecked, Reaktor 6 FX does not show up when I try to add it to a track. Instead, these are the available options:

VST: Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (16ch)
VSTi: Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (2->16ch)

If I check the box for “Do not scan VST names/types (deprecated)”, I see these instead:

VST: Reaktor 6
VST: Reaktor 6 FX

One might be tempted to think that the "2->16ch" part in the first two is just another way of naming Reaktor 6 FX. Not so. That version exhibits some strange behavior. If, for example, I bring in audio from a microphone to use the vocoder effects in Razor, Reaktor produces the vocoder output but also passes the unmodified dry signal. I don't see any setting in Reaktor to avoid this. I found a workaround using a special routing setup in Reaper that is a little messy that I can explain if needed.

If, on the other hand, I use the true Reaktor FX version, when doing as above with a vocoder effect, the dry signal is not passed. This is how it should function.

Also, there are differences in the routing options for "VST: Reaktor FX" as opposed to "VSTi: Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (2->16ch)". See attached image.

In my VST folder, I only have two files for Reaktor, the regular, non-FX version and the FX version:
Reaktor 6.dll
Reaktor 6 FX.dll

I prefer not to have the box checked for “Do not scan VST names/types (deprecated)”, as issues have arisen for me with other VSTs when that is checked.

I would rather not have to change that setting every time I want to load Reaktor FX and then have to clear the cache and rescan, as I have so many instruments that it takes a while.

Any ideas why Reaktor FX doesn't show up when that box is unchecked? Are my only options to check it or to use the "2->16ch" VSTi version with the messy workaround?

Thanks!
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File Type: jpg reaktor FX vs VSTi.jpg (53.4 KB, 189 views)
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Old 05-10-2019, 08:35 AM   #2
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VST folder is where your effects plugins are listed, the version of Reaktor you find there is the Reaktor FX. In the VSTi or Instruments folder you will find your synths, so if you want to use it as a synth more or less, and not send audio to it for further processing, load Reaktor from here.
So Reaktor 6 = Reaktor 6 (in VSTi/Instruments, 2-16 ch) and Reaktor 6 FX = Reaktor 6 (found in the VST folder)
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Old 05-11-2019, 06:31 AM   #3
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Opaque, thanks for the reply and attempt to help!

Unfortunately, what you describe doesn't address the issue I am having. You seem to be referring to the categories that show up in the "add FX" window, not folders on my hard drive, correct? What is in those categories doesn't matter here. In the window that appears when I add a plugin, I always have "all plugins" highlighted and just type in "reakt" or something like that at the bottom, where it says "filter" to get the plugin I want. If I use those categories or folders as you describe, my same problem still exists.

There are multiple versions of Reaktor. The regular version, what Reaper lists (when the "deprecated" option is unchecked in preferences) as "VST: Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (16ch)" will not process incoming audio. It has no audio inputs. It can only be used as an instrument. It will take MIDI information in, but not audio, such as from my microphone input. The version listed (again, with "deprecated" option unchecked) as "VSTi: Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (2->16ch)" DOES take both MIDI and audio input and will process that audio. However, it also passes the dry signal and this is not wanted and cannot be turned off. Also this version only takes two channels of input audio.

If, however, I check that box in preferences that says it is deprecated, a different version of Reaktor becomes available when I am adding a plugin. The VSTi version with the dry signal problem and only 2 input channels no longer appears. These are the options that are then available:

VST: Reaktor 6
VST: Reaktor 6 FX

That second option is the one that works as expected for use as an effect. It will take in both MIDI signals and audio. And it will process both properly and not pass the unwanted dry signal. And it will take in up to 16 channels of audio input.

My problem is this. Why is the FX version that I want not available when the "deprecated" box in preferences is unchecked? I can access it if I check that box, but having that box checked causes me issues with other plugins. And switching that option back and forth and clearing the cache and re-scanning is a pain, as it takes Reaper several full minutes to scan my plugin folder, as it contains many plugins.

And strangely, considering what you say about a VSTi being an instrument and not an effect, between the two options that are available when the "deprecated" box is unchecked, the only one that can actually be used to process audio or be used as an effect is the VSTi version. The other version, the VST version, simply does not have audio inputs. It only takes in MIDI and can only be used as an instrument. This seems backwards!

But of the options that are available when that deprecated box is checked, neither one of the two is a VSTi. Both of those can be used as an instrument. The FX version can also process incoming audio and can therefore be an effect.

It is odd that changing that setting makes different versions of Reaktor available, versions with different routing options and different behavior when processing incoming audio. It would seem that the option would only change how the plugins are labelled in the list.

I attached an image of the "deprecated" option I've been talking about.
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File Type: jpg dep.jpg (51.3 KB, 199 views)
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Old 05-11-2019, 09:40 AM   #4
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First of all, I left that option in the preferences unchecked and I never use it.
If you create a new track, you should be able to load the FX version of Reaktor (16 ch) and process audio. Of course if you just insert Reaktor on a track, the audio won't be heard immediately, or it won't go through, to put it differently. The reason is because you have no inputs and outputs which you have to insert manually when you are creating a new ensemble or, naturally, if you load an effect ensemble in Reaktor, the audio will go through and you will hear it affected, because all of these ensembles already contain audio inputs and outputs.
So, the audio won't go through when you just load Reaktor on a track with a media file or instrument alrady on it, but you will hear it (it will go through) when you load an effect ensemble in Reaktor or just create and connect the inputs and outputs yourself.

The VSTi (2-16ch) version is intended to be used as an instrument. If you want to use it as such, load it on an empty track. Now, what happens within Reaper when you insert an instrument on a track containing media items, or vice versa, is a bit unclear to me, but it seems that it creates a prallel audio stream so that you can hear both simultaneously, which I think is somewhat expected and justified, since the only reason to have both an instrument and an audio file on a track is to hear both at the same time (for whatever reason). Otherwise (normally), you would just use it either as an instrument or an effect. Btw, this is how it works with any instrument (VSTi), not just Reaktor.
Hope that helps.
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Old 05-11-2019, 10:21 AM   #5
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Thanks for your help!

I finally get it. In my case at least, it is that when the "deprecated" box is unchecked, the actual FX version doesn't say "FX" on it at all, while it does say that when the box is checked. This confused me. The version that I thought was the non-FX version is in fact the FX version! So you're right, the VSTi version, which I was trying to use as the FX version isn't the FX version. I had them backwards. The lack of "FX" label and my failure to understand what VSTi means confused me.

Thanks again!
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Old 11-08-2019, 01:01 PM   #6
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Hello.

I am struggling with the same issue. I have the box unchecked as well.
I confirm that in the reaper-vstplugins64 file there are two separate lines, one for Reaktor 6 VSTi! and another line for Reaktor 6 FX .dll.

Yet, as the OP said, Reaper does NOT show Reaktor FX dll no matter what. Unless that stupid box is checked in preferences which has it's own problems. Deprecated.

Please tell me how to fix this I really need to use the plugin. Thank you.
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Old 11-09-2019, 07:57 AM   #7
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lowellben,

Don't worry that it doesn't say "FX". The version you want is still available. Leave the "deprecated" box unchecked. If you are generating and not processing incoming audio and want the instrument version of Reaktor, use this version that shows up:

VSTi: Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (2->16ch)

If, on the other hand, you want the FX version to process audio passing into the plugin, use this version, which is actually the FX version (just not labelled as such):

VST: Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (16ch)



The VSTi, or instrument version, will pass the completely unaffected dry signal of anything placed before it, seemingly no matter what. If you want to process incoming audio and NOT pass the dry signal, such as, say, using Razor as a vocoder, you want the FX version, which, for whatever annoying reason, in Reaper, shows up as:

VST: Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (16ch)
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Old 11-09-2019, 08:15 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesO512 View Post
lowellben,

Don't worry that it doesn't say "FX". The version you want is still available. Leave the "deprecated" box unchecked. If you are generating and not processing incoming audio and want the instrument version of Reaktor, use this version that shows up:

VSTi: Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (2->16ch)

If, on the other hand, you want the FX version to process audio passing into the plugin, use this version, which is actually the FX version (just not labelled as such):

VST: Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (16ch)



The VSTi, or instrument version, will pass the completely unaffected dry signal of anything placed before it, seemingly no matter what. If you want to process incoming audio and NOT pass the dry signal, such as, say, using Razor as a vocoder, you want the FX version, which, for whatever annoying reason, in Reaper, shows up as:

VST: Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (16ch)
But I don't see the ReaktorFX anywhere in Reaper. Nowhere. Not even an option.
It's only in the config file I mentioned. How do I "see" it in Reaper's FX list anywhere? I'm so lost.
I literally only have "1" Reaktor 6 dll and it's the instrument one with VSTi: Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (2->16ch)
Thanks you please
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Old 11-09-2019, 08:51 AM   #9
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Not sure but something may have happened with your install. I have both Reaktor 6.dll and Reaktor 6 FX.dll in my plugin folder.
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Old 11-09-2019, 01:35 PM   #10
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lowellben,

How many Reaktor DLL files do you have in your plugins folder when you look using your file manager rather than Reaper? I have two:

Reaktor 6 FX.dll
Reaktor 6.dll

However, even though one of the DLL files says "FX" in it, "FX" doesn't show up in the listing inside Reaper. But this is actually the FX version:

VST: Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (16ch)


If you don't have Reaktor 6 FX.dll in your plugins folder, you might just search your hard drive for it. And if you find it somewhere else, put a copy of it in your plugin folder.

You might just try reinstalling Reaktor, being careful to specify where your plugin folder is located, making sure that location is listed in the VST plugin paths in Reaper.
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Old 11-10-2019, 04:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Not sure but something may have happened with your install. I have both Reaktor 6.dll and Reaktor 6 FX.dll in my plugin folder.
Hi ED. I confirm that in the windows explorer I see two DLL files, yes. In the same VST folder that is normally scanned in Reaper. Yet, only the non-FX DLL shows in Reaper's FX browser scheme.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesO512 View Post
lowellben,

How many Reaktor DLL files do you have in your plugins folder when you look using your file manager rather than Reaper? I have two:

Reaktor 6 FX.dll
Reaktor 6.dll

However, even though one of the DLL files says "FX" in it, "FX" doesn't show up in the listing inside Reaper. But this is actually the FX version:

VST: Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (16ch)


If you don't have Reaktor 6 FX.dll in your plugins folder, you might just search your hard drive for it. And if you find it somewhere else, put a copy of it in your plugin folder.

You might just try reinstalling Reaktor, being careful to specify where your plugin folder is located, making sure that location is listed in the VST plugin paths in Reaper.
Both DLLs are in the path correctly yes. Thank you.
Here is why I am so confused.
In reaper-vstplugins64.ini there are two DLL files listed correctly.

Reaktor_6.dll=0058AF1BD501,13525174,Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (2->16ch)!!!VSTi

and

Reaktor_6_FX.dll=0098C758AF1B01

Please Help me I'm going crazy. Why would Reaper's INI show this yet your problem (OP) is exactly what I'm having.See how the FX version DLL has no , "name" attached to it at all in the INI?? Bug?

I don't want to have to check that box deprecated scan et al.

Many thanks.,
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Old 11-11-2019, 12:11 AM   #12
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The FX .dll doesn't have the extra info after the name (the date hash etc). So remove that line from the ini file and let Reaper rescan plugins.
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Old 11-11-2019, 05:53 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
The FX .dll doesn't have the extra info after the name (the date hash etc). So remove that line from the ini file and let Reaper rescan plugins.
Hi ED. yes I mentioned that in my previous post. I noticed the missing info but even after doing what you said, deleting the line, Reaper is still breaking trust me lol.

Now, on the splash screen of Reaper (after deleting the line in INI), I see "scanning Reaktor 6 FX DLL". BUT, I promise you, it's still not showing ANYwhere in Reaper.

And sure enough, in the INI file again. Is now

Reaktor_6_FX.dll=0098C758AF1

at the bottom.

I really think this is a reaper thing Do I need to check the deprecated box just to have reaktor FX work? How exactly did the OP solve this what am I missing? Thanks!!
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Old 11-11-2019, 06:08 AM   #14
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I didn't need to check the deprecated box for it to scan correctly...
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Old 11-11-2019, 07:23 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowellben View Post
How exactly did the OP solve this what am I missing?
I still don't have a version in Reaper that says "FX" explicitly. However, the version that says the following, which I do see listed, actually IS the FX version:

VST: Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (16ch)



And that version does everything I need the FX version to do. If you see that version listed, use that if you need to use Reaktor as an effect rather than as an instrument.

When I go to add a plugin to a track in Reaper, and I type "Reaktor" in the "filter" field at the bottom of the window, two versions of Reaktor show up for me:

VST: Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (16ch)
VSTi: Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (2->16ch)

Like you, I do NOT see a version that says "FX". However, the first of those two versions that I do see in fact IS the FX version. Do you see what I'm saying?

In Reaper, when you try to add a plugin, do you see two versions of Reaktor listed?
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Old 11-11-2019, 08:35 AM   #16
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I looked at my INI file and here is how the Reaktor DLLs are listed there for me:

Reaktor_6_FX.dll=005B598BB4EED401,1314010730,Reakt or 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (16ch)
Reaktor_6.dll=00B66D52B5EED401,1315525174,Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (2->16ch)!!!VSTi


I had never looked at the INI file before. It occurred to me that I can probably just manually modify that line to make Reaper say whatever I want it to say for that DLL. So I changed that first line to the following, adding "FX" to the second part:

Reaktor_6_FX.dll=005B598BB4EED401,1314010730,Reakt or 6 FX (Native Instruments GmbH) (16ch)

And now it shows up in Reaper as:
Reaktor 6 FX (Native Instruments GmbH) (16ch)


In your case, lowellben, your INI file only says the following:

Reaktor_6_FX.dll=0098C758AF1

As ED pointed out, it is missing all that info after the comma. I don't know what the number is after the first comma. What comes after the second comma it seems can be anything you want. Just copying the number after the first comma from my INI file probably won't work for you. I don't have a clue why the line in your INI file is missing the extra stuff. Maybe your Reaktor_6_FX.dll file is corrupt or something and so when Reaper scans it, something goes wrong. I'd suggest removing Reaktor completely and then reinstalling with a fresh download from Native Instruments through Native Access.
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Old 11-11-2019, 11:15 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesO512 View Post
I still don't have a version in Reaper that says "FX" explicitly. However, the version that says the following, which I do see listed, actually IS the FX version:

VST: Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (16ch)



And that version does everything I need the FX version to do. If you see that version listed, use that if you need to use Reaktor as an effect rather than as an instrument.

When I go to add a plugin to a track in Reaper, and I type "Reaktor" in the "filter" field at the bottom of the window, two versions of Reaktor show up for me:

VST: Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (16ch)
VSTi: Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (2->16ch)

Like you, I do NOT see a version that says "FX". However, the first of those two versions that I do see in fact IS the FX version. Do you see what I'm saying?

In Reaper, when you try to add a plugin, do you see two versions of Reaktor listed?
No. I do not see any
VST:

only
VSTi:

No reference to the 6 FX dll anywhere in any area of Reaper, other than seeing it on the splash screen clearly being "scanned" yet ignored after.
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Old 11-11-2019, 11:21 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesO512 View Post
I looked at my INI file and here is how the Reaktor DLLs are listed there for me:

Reaktor_6_FX.dll=005B598BB4EED401,1314010730,Reakt or 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (16ch)
Reaktor_6.dll=00B66D52B5EED401,1315525174,Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (2->16ch)!!!VSTi


I had never looked at the INI file before. It occurred to me that I can probably just manually modify that line to make Reaper say whatever I want it to say for that DLL. So I changed that first line to the following, adding "FX" to the second part:

Reaktor_6_FX.dll=005B598BB4EED401,1314010730,Reakt or 6 FX (Native Instruments GmbH) (16ch)

And now it shows up in Reaper as:
Reaktor 6 FX (Native Instruments GmbH) (16ch)


In your case, lowellben, your INI file only says the following:

Reaktor_6_FX.dll=0098C758AF1

As ED pointed out, it is missing all that info after the comma. I don't know what the number is after the first comma. What comes after the second comma it seems can be anything you want. Just copying the number after the first comma from my INI file probably won't work for you. I don't have a clue why the line in your INI file is missing the extra stuff. Maybe your Reaktor_6_FX.dll file is corrupt or something and so when Reaper scans it, something goes wrong. I'd suggest removing Reaktor completely and then reinstalling with a fresh download from Native Instruments through Native Access.
I just checked the deprecated box, as you mentioned earlier, and tried a rescan. And like magic, I get the FX dll great.

Reaktor_6_FX.dll=00C758AFD501,0,FX/NI/Reaktor 6 FX

in my INI file.

But, like you said, it's a pain to keep checking deprecated each load to use this FX in a project
And get this, even WITH the entry in the INI file, the plugin doesnt load in Reaper.
Says offline/can't be loaded.
So it's not working even when Reaper "sees" it. Ugh.

I wish I was lucky like you. I guess I have to redownload and try all over?

Any other ideas? So strange! Works in other DAWs and hosts.
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Old 11-11-2019, 01:23 PM   #19
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Your DLL must be corrupted. Reinstall from a fresh download.
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Old 11-11-2019, 02:15 PM   #20
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What's best is that the FX DLL is just a very small "header" sort of thing that calls on the larger DLL, it's basically just setting the I/O differently.

It's supposed to be 49784 bytes, and MD5 checksum is 72ad829d411fce988ca36db0c76aa4db.
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Old 11-11-2019, 02:44 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
What's best is that the FX DLL is just a very small "header" sort of thing that calls on the larger DLL, it's basically just setting the I/O differently.

It's supposed to be 49784 bytes, and MD5 checksum is 72ad829d411fce988ca36db0c76aa4db.
Oh, interesting. I'll check my hash here thanks ED you are a savior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesO512 View Post
Your DLL must be corrupted. Reinstall from a fresh download.
I guess I'll have to thanks! Just can't afford much downtime, ugh. Stress!
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