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11-10-2020, 11:23 PM
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#41
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 30
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I'm happy with the MBP 15 2019, didn't have any issues yet. The fan gets active when processing Amp-Sims or Sample/Synth Libs with very low latency. They get pretty loud but for recording it's not that bad. When mixing most of the Tracks are bounced and i'm using a much higher buffer size and the fans keep quiet most of the time.
Yes VSTs have exactly the same problem like any other software. That's what i'm concerned about the most. DAWs will be ported for sure. But a lot of VSTs will take much longer. Especially independent developers and free VST devs maybe don't have that much time to port everything to a new platform and optimize everything for multiple architectures at the same time. But i really hope most of them can be wrapped using Rosetta 2, maybe not running as fast as native but at least running!
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11-11-2020, 03:01 AM
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#42
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Deepest South Bucks, UK
Posts: 96
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iOS Apps
Will Reaper be able to host auv3s? And even inter app audio apps via an M1 enabled Mac? That would be rather useful.
__________________
Mac Pro 3.1, Emagic AMT8, iconnectivity Audio 4+, Zoom R24, Novation Mininova.
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11-11-2020, 04:35 AM
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#43
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 171
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This is what happens if you start REAPER 6.15 on an ARM Mac running Big Sur RC1 with Rosetta2 emulation:
So any news on a schedule?
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11-11-2020, 08:05 AM
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#44
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium
Posts: 5,246
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What happens if you run Reaper on a non-501 account?
Segfaults too?
__________________
In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
George Orwell
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11-11-2020, 09:14 AM
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#45
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstockm
This is what happens if you start REAPER 6.15 on an ARM Mac running Big Sur RC1 with Rosetta2 emulation:
So any news on a schedule?
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Interesting, that's a similar crash to if you run it on a Ryzen hackintosh. Perhaps there's an ICC update that will work, but for now you can try running the clang builds: https://landoleet.org/old/reaper615-clang_x86_64.dmg (not notarized so you'll have to run it via holding shift/right click-opening).
There's a native ARM build: https://landoleet.org/old/reaper614_arm64_notarized.dmg
It should mostly work except for JSFX/video processors/EEL2 reascripts which will all probably crash.
We'll have more information about timing for macOS ARM64 support in a week or two.
Edit: also, can you try the latest (non-clang) ICC prerelease build? It is built with a slightly newer ICC which might fix this issue (it is also not notarized so it will have to be run via shift/right clicking).
Last edited by Justin; 11-11-2020 at 11:27 AM.
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11-12-2020, 05:21 AM
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#46
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 45
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The benchmarks for M1s are looking very good.
https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/11...rst-benchmark/
I need a new computer for audio so based on this it feels like getting an intel at this point would be the wrong call.
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11-12-2020, 07:38 AM
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#47
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ohio
Posts: 978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intoxicat
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I'm looking at the M1 Mac Mini for my studio... I'm currently running a hacked Mac Pro 1,1 (running El Capitan) with maxed out processor and RAM, and it's perfectly fine for tracking a band and mixing with Reaper. However, add softsynths and things start getting sluggish. And I don't even bother running a Logic Pro X session!
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11-12-2020, 07:49 AM
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#48
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intoxicat
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The initial benchmarks are definitely looking good, but we don't know the real world performance yet, not to mention we have to see how quickly drivers, DAWs and plugins are updated to work well with the new architecture. It's one thing for your apps to run under Rosetta 2, but it may be a while before they're properly optimized. So at this point I'd suggest holding off until you can verify that all your gear and software/plugins work well. And again, it will likely be a while before ALL your software/plugins are actually *optimized* for it. But again, those initial benchmark numbers are looking good and I'm definitely planning on buying one myself... just waiting to see what happens with all the plugins I use, which are many, from many indie developers, so I'm probably going to take my time.
If you have to make a decision right away, and MUST get a machine now, keep in mind there will be ton of Intel Macs going on the used market and you'll have a good chance of scoring a good deal. Then you can move to Apple Silicon when the dust settles.
My two bits.
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11-14-2020, 05:57 PM
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#49
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
Interesting, that's a similar crash to if you run it on a Ryzen hackintosh. Perhaps there's an ICC update that will work, but for now you can try running the clang builds: https://landoleet.org/old/reaper615-clang_x86_64.dmg
There's a native ARM build: https://landoleet.org/old/reaper614_arm64_notarized.dmg
It should mostly work except for JSFX/video processors/EEL2 reascripts which will all probably crash.
We'll have more information about timing for macOS ARM64 support in a week or two.
Edit: also, can you try the latest (non-clang) ICC prerelease build? It is built with a slightly newer ICC which might fix this issue
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Thank you very much, we're seeing some progress:
- clang build 616rc4 runs perfect (!) - with JSFX,VST and reascript.
- ICC 616rc4 - crash at starT
- native ARM 614 - REAPER itself seems to work, but as predicted VSTs and JSFX crash.
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11-16-2020, 05:37 PM
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#50
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tasmania
Posts: 553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstockm
- clang build 616rc4 runs perfect (!) - with JSFX,VST and reascript.
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That looks promising!
I hope you don't mind me chiming in with a question, but have you tried it with any third party VSTs? I've been hunting around for info on whether Rosetta 2 will translate plugins, or just applications...
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11-16-2020, 09:40 PM
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#51
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,356
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vst 3.7 does arm
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11-17-2020, 06:19 AM
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#52
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 37
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So is there anyone that ran reaper on a M1 Mac successfully?
What is the status for reaper and for non reaper plugins?
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11-17-2020, 12:50 PM
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#53
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tasmania
Posts: 553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobobo
vst 3.7 does arm
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Thanks... TBH in the short term I’m mostly curious to see if Rosetta will translate existing plugins.
Presumably most VSTs will be recompiled for the new hardware eventually, but that’s likely to take quite a while.
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11-18-2020, 01:59 AM
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#54
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SF CA USA
Posts: 23
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I just found this video on YouTube of someone doing a brief test of Reaper and some plug-ins on his new Air:
https://youtu.be/xlvx_-drCE4
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11-18-2020, 03:20 AM
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#55
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noisyfrog
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Thank you, it looks ok!
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11-18-2020, 10:12 AM
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#56
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intoxicat
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Of course they are. With their own silicon in place, Apple can custom tailor the whole platform to work as efficiently as possible. That alone is a huge advantage compared to universal X86 PCs. But even if every bit of audio software was compatible from day one (which is not the case), those geekbench scores would tell very little about real life performance in a professional audio environment. Running Geekbench on a brand new device is one thing. Running a large scoring session with lots of VI and FX after your mac has been on for 2 months straight is another. I'm sure it's all going to work out eventually, but keep in mind that no one can tell, if the next couple of months are going to be a breeze or a f!cking dumpster fire.
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11-18-2020, 03:50 PM
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#57
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,721
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Hmm looks like with Big Sur 11.1 the x86_64 6.15 release of REAPER works with Rosetta, anybody want to check that?
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11-18-2020, 11:10 PM
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#58
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Scandinavia
Posts: 8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
Hmm looks like with Big Sur 11.1 the x86_64 6.15 release of REAPER works with Rosetta, anybody want to check that?
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I does run with Rosetta2 on macOS 11.0.1, it works very well! I'm the guy who made the YouTube video that was linked above.
https://youtu.be/xlvx_-drCE4
One issue though: Quitting REAPER sometimes causes it to hang or crash.
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11-19-2020, 08:35 AM
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#59
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,247
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Great amazing vid, thank you !
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11-19-2020, 10:08 AM
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#60
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,721
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There's now a native arm64 build on landoleet (maybe move discussion of that to the pre-release forum? thanks!)
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11-19-2020, 10:26 AM
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#61
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 531
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Trying to keep up with Rosetta info, sorry if these questions are mundane. So Rosetta works at the install level and not on the fly? Are there any issues with using an arm native daw and Rosetta emulated plug-ins? Is it better or worse than both the daw and plugins being emulated?
I saw this video of FL studio running through emulation and it did not work out - https://youtu.be/KvdfCqAJ4dE
Based on comments it seems Reaper is able to work, what is the difference between the two?
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11-19-2020, 11:59 AM
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#62
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,721
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Based on what I've seen so far, if you have mostly x86_64 plug-ins (you likely do), then I'd probably run REAPER x86_64 in emulation, it's still pretty good!
If you use mostly REAPER built-in plug-ins or have arm builds of the plugins you use, then the native build is probably better.
The arm build can bridge x86_64 VST2s (with a small performance penalty as usual), but we don't yet support bridging VST3s.
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11-19-2020, 12:23 PM
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#63
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,247
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Many thx Justin for chiming in with this valuable info.
Amazing that there is already a Reaper - ARM version !
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11-19-2020, 05:01 PM
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#64
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SF CA USA
Posts: 23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rustonium
I does run with Rosetta2 on macOS 11.0.1, it works very well! I'm the guy who made the YouTube video that was linked above.
https://youtu.be/xlvx_-drCE4
One issue though: Quitting REAPER sometimes causes it to hang or crash.
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Cool - thanks for making that video. I was psyched to stumble across it.
Does anyone have any opinions about whether plugins running under Rosetta might run into time-based problems?
I don't need to render huge 8K videos, so I don't care that much about the raw horsepower of M1. What I do want to know is whether I'll be able to record and overdub live instruments without something going awry.
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11-20-2020, 07:23 AM
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#65
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Ukraine
Posts: 150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
The arm build can bridge x86_64 VST2s (with a small performance penalty as usual), but we don't yet support bridging VST3s.
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always wondered, if it will be possible to use x86_64 AU plugins on ARM.
is that something that could be supported or it looks like a hard 'no' from Apple?
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11-20-2020, 02:42 PM
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#66
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
Based on what I've seen so far, if you have mostly x86_64 plug-ins (you likely do), then I'd probably run REAPER x86_64 in emulation, it's still pretty good!
If you use mostly REAPER built-in plug-ins or have arm builds of the plugins you use, then the native build is probably better.
The arm build can bridge x86_64 VST2s (with a small performance penalty as usual), but we don't yet support bridging VST3s.
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Thank you very much. If any, what are the more specific problems you have seen come up?
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11-21-2020, 06:42 PM
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#67
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily
always wondered, if it will be possible to use x86_64 AU plugins on ARM.
is that something that could be supported or it looks like a hard 'no' from Apple?
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It looks like Apple is making that supported natively, however at least with REAPER’s use of their implementation, it is unreliable. Maybe they’ll fix it (or maybe we will?)
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11-22-2020, 02:37 PM
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#68
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Leipzig
Posts: 6,621
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
There's now a native arm64 build on landoleet (maybe move discussion of that to the pre-release forum? thanks!)
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I created a dedicated thread for that:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....61#post2368261
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12-18-2020, 03:32 AM
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#69
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Finland
Posts: 23
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Would be interesting to see real-life daw performance comparision M1 vs Intel, on native apps ofcourse.
So far I came only by Guiborratto https://www.instagram.com/p/CIy2ctdFIGv/ running Macbook Pro 13" M1, Logicprox with 287 "1040 space designer reverbs". He says "M1 is limitless [compared to Intel]" but does not give any direct comparision ie how many intel can handle.
edit: Gearslutz has some info https://www.gearslutz.com/board/musi...l-macs-96.html
Last edited by frspp; 12-27-2020 at 02:18 AM.
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01-10-2021, 05:07 AM
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#70
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 479
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Are projects created in the ARM version of Reaper compatible with the Intel version? I'm contemplating getting an M1 MacBook Air for on-location recording and then open those projects on my Intel Mac Pro at home for editing and mixing. I don't normally use any plugins when recording so that shouldn't be an issue, I'm just wondering if a project I create on the M1 Mac can be opened on the Intel Mac.
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01-15-2021, 12:23 PM
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#71
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 185
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Yes, I migrated all my Reaper folders to my new M1 Mini and haven't had any problems opening and working with old projects, aside from the unregistered plug-ins.
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01-20-2021, 02:00 PM
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#72
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave 2099
Yes, I migrated all my Reaper folders to my new M1 Mini and haven't had any problems opening and working with old projects, aside from the unregistered plug-ins.
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Thanks, but my question was the other way around: if I create a project on an M1 Mac, will I be able to open that same project on an Intel Mac?
I currently use a Windows laptop to record in Reaper and then open those projects on my desktop Mac where I do all my editing and mixing, just trying to see if I could use the same workflow if I replace the Windows laptop with an M1 MacBook Air (which would be more than powerful enough for my recording needs). Obviously I could just import the .wav files (and midi files if I save them as midi files) but it would be more convenient to be able to open the actual project and pick up from where I left off.
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01-21-2021, 06:16 PM
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#73
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Ukraine
Posts: 150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjohn
Thanks, but my question was the other way around: if I create a project on an M1 Mac, will I be able to open that same project on an Intel Mac?
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likely yes, but may depend on plugins.
nothing specific to platform in Reaper itself, projects between Mac ARM, Mac PPC, Mac Intel and Windows are totally compatible. but the plugins may be not (or even not exist for all platforms).
I have a bunch of projects that I used both on Windows and Mac and had just several incompatibilities in years. sometimes a plugin writes its' state on one platform in the way it's not able to read on another (Addictive Keys, I'm looking at you). you're still able to open the project in this case though.
Last edited by Vasily; 01-21-2021 at 06:30 PM.
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01-23-2021, 03:55 AM
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#74
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 13
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Hi all,
Recently bought the base macbook air M1 as general purpose laptop, and was also curious how Reaper performs. Installed the ARM version and I'm impressed with the snappiness even under CPU load. One thing I was a bit underwhelmed by was the real-time CPU performance. I'm normally using Reaper as a glorified tape recorder and real-time effects processor. So for me low buffers (64) are important. As stated, I used the ARM version and only plug-ins using ARM architecture (Fabfilter / Valhalla Supermassive & Tal JUP8). Disabled bluetooth and WIFI, used only VST3 formats.
The test I performed was adding a track, inserting 5 plug-ins(Pro-C 2/ Pro-L 2 / Pro-Q 3 /Supermassive/ Saturn 2) and having audio go through. For Fabfilter Pro-Q3 I used a dynamic EQ preset, and for the Saturn an FX preset). After duplicating this on 5 tracks, the limit was reached and got RT xruns (RT CPU approx 45% / Total CPU 11%).
The same test performed on my Windows machine (8700K) I was able to run easily twice the amount of tracks.
About my Reaper buffering settings, these worked best on the Mac:
- Auto detect the number of cores disabled, manually set to 6.
- Allow live FX multiprocessing on 2 CPUS
Did anybody else experience this with Reaper Arm on the M1's?
Thanks.
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01-26-2021, 03:10 AM
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#75
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily
likely yes, but may depend on plugins.
nothing specific to platform in Reaper itself, projects between Mac ARM, Mac PPC, Mac Intel and Windows are totally compatible. but the plugins may be not (or even not exist for all platforms).
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Great, thanks. I use no plugins when tracking, except occasionally Pianoteq (which is now M1 compatible) so this shouldn't be an issue for my workflow.
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01-29-2021, 03:23 AM
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#76
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Finland
Posts: 23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poj
Recently bought the base macbook air M1 as general purpose laptop, and was also curious how Reaper performs. Installed the ARM version and I'm impressed with the snappiness even under CPU load. One thing I was a bit underwhelmed by was the real-time CPU performance.
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Not Reaper but:
Processing and exporting raw photos to jpg in Photoshop/Adobe Camera Raw (arm beta) _feels_ pretty much same on 2020 MBP as on 2012 Macbook Pro retina 15" i7 2,3ghz with 16gb memory. I expected quite a bit more processing speed, ie. exporting with basicly no wait, after 8 years of progress, but no...
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01-29-2021, 02:51 PM
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#77
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frspp
Not Reaper but:
Processing and exporting raw photos to jpg in Photoshop/Adobe Camera Raw (arm beta) _feels_ pretty much same on 2020 MBP as on 2012 Macbook Pro retina 15" i7 2,3ghz with 16gb memory. I expected quite a bit more processing speed, ie. exporting with basicly no wait, after 8 years of progress, but no...
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Thanks for your feedback!
For now I'm sticking with my overclokced 8700K Windows machine, hopefully in the near future some better specced apples for real-time audio performance.
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02-03-2021, 05:20 AM
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#78
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frspp
Not Reaper but:
Processing and exporting raw photos to jpg in Photoshop/Adobe Camera Raw (arm beta) _feels_ pretty much same on 2020 MBP as on 2012 Macbook Pro retina 15" i7 2,3ghz with 16gb memory. I expected quite a bit more processing speed, ie. exporting with basicly no wait, after 8 years of progress, but no...
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There is a new photoshop arm beta released yesterday that now includes the Adobe Camera RAW plugin so maybe that will speed things up a bit.
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02-08-2021, 03:41 AM
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#79
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Finland
Posts: 23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kypresso
There is a new photoshop arm beta released yesterday that now includes the Adobe Camera RAW plugin so maybe that will speed things up a bit.
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I have ACR 13.1 since December and release notes says ACR 13.1 is ARM native ( https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb...ncompatibility )
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