Sonible SmartEQ4 – strange behavior in REAPER

[Valle]

It seems like SmartEQ4 doesn’t fully load its state/settings on project startup – no change in sound even though the "smart filter" curve is visible. For the plugin to refresh/activate, I need to activate it by changing to a(nother) preset and back, or drag the impact thumb, or turn the filter parameter section off and on, etc.

I have checked/done the following:

- I have not enabled the "disable saving full plug-in state" in REAPER preferences
- I have un- and re-installed SmartEQ4
- I have cleared cache and re-scanned VST
- SmartEQ3 works fine, as expected (as well as the rest of the Sonible smart-plugins)
- It's only the (learned) "smart filter" state that doesn't work/refresh (while added standard EQ filters load and work as expected on startup)
- I have done tests on latest public release (v7.08) and on pre-releases (from v707+dev1213 and on). 64-bit, Windows 10 Pro

If anyone has the time, please try this and see if it you experience the same

1. Start a new/empty project
2. Add a track and a wave file
3. Add (FX) SmartEQ4 and run its learning function/process
4. Make sure you can clearly hear the filter
5. Save the project and close it
6. Re-open the project

When I do this, SmartEQ4's "smart filter" is not working until I touch/move some of its components (as described above). While, as mentioned, standard EQ-filters that I may have added work.

Any feedback will be much appreciated!

[nosucherror]

Hi Valle,
yes, exact same problem here with 7.08 on Windows10. I have told Sonible and you can do the same here:
https://help.sonible.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
I hope they get it sorted soon as it doesn't work properly in Bitwig either!

[Valle]

Originally Posted by nosucherror

Hi Valle,
yes, exact same problem here with 7.08 on Windows10. I have told Sonible and you can do the same here:
https://help.sonible.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
I hope they get it sorted soon as it doesn't work properly in Bitwig either!

THANK YOU!

[IXix]

Yes, same here. Win11, Reaper 7.08 x64.

[IXix]

While we're waiting for a fix (which probably won't take long), I made a script to 'wake up' all instances of Smart EQ4 in a project (only Track FX chain though).

You'll might need to set the project playing for it to work. If I load a project and just run the script straight away it doesn't fix the problem, I have to hit play and then run it but that might be something to do with my Reaper preferences.

It's an EEL script, just unzip it to your scripts folder and load it via the actions window.

[Valle]

Originally Posted by IXix

While we're waiting for a fix (which probably won't take long), I made a script to 'wake up' all instances of Smart EQ4 in a project (only Track FX chain though).

Impressive, IXix! Thank you!

Let's hope the fix is around the corner. Sonible seems to be a very quiet company. No response what so ever. But then again, I guess I've been spoiled by the awesome instant support/respond from companies like FabFilter, Cockos and a few others

[IXix]

Originally Posted by Valle

Impressive, IXix! Thank you!

Let's hope the fix is around the corner. Sonible seems to be a very quiet company. No response what so ever. But then again, I guess I've been spoiled by the awesome instant support/respond from companies like FabFilter, Cockos and a few others

I'd imagine they'll jump on this pretty quick. Incorrect recall is a serious problem which will annoy a ton of people.

FWIW I think it's only the Universal filters that fail in this way. I could be mistaken but it seemed that if I set it to guitar/vocal/whatever it loaded properly but I didn't test much.

[Valle]

Originally Posted by IXix

FWIW I think it's only the Universal filters that fail in this way. I could be mistaken but it seemed that if I set it to guitar/vocal/whatever it loaded properly but I didn't test much.

Just tested Bass, same behavior.

[IXix]

Originally Posted by Valle

Just tested Bass, same behavior.

Ah, I must have been mistaken. I hope they do fix it soon because obviously it's all over three of my most recent projects!

[IXix]

Had a reply from Sonible to say they're working on it.

[subsound]

Originally Posted by IXix

Had a reply from Sonible to say they're working on it.

Thank you for the update!

[Valle]

Originally Posted by IXix

Ah, I must have been mistaken. I hope they do fix it soon because obviously it's all over three of my most recent projects!

Heh ... Well, that's how I noticed it. I replaced all the instances of smartEQ3 in a project, added v4 and fooled around a bit. Everything sounded nice. I saved and closed the project. Next day I loaded the project, hit play and ... WTF!? It all sounded "wrong", and I was like "Did I really think this is good?". Luckily enough I had the song playing when I opened a smartEQ4 instance on the snare. Because I just randomly moved a (standard) filter and the snare suddenly jumped out. After a few tests on other tracks/instances the "bug" was obvious. Then I turn to this forum.

What's a little strange, though - I read a post on another forum from January 7, where the user wrote that smartEQ4 works just fine on his REAPER. Go figure.

(I also had a reply from Sonible. Hopefully the fix is not far away.)

[sekim]

Originally Posted by Valle

What's a little strange, though - I read a post on another forum from January 7, where the user wrote that smartEQ4 works just fine on his REAPER. Go figure.

I may have posted it was fine on Reaper, but that was based on an initial look, not on your scenario. When I have a chance I will try your scenario and tbh expect to find the same thing you are seeing.

[edit] Yup, I do your steps and when I reopen the project, no generated curve is even showing. I have to move the envelope handle on the top and then do ctrl-Z to make it show up. And the sound follows what is being displayed...no curve showing then no EQ, once the curve shows up the EQ is as expected. Hopefully this gets fixed soon.

[sekim]

Originally Posted by IXix

While we're waiting for a fix (which probably won't take long), I made a script to 'wake up' all instances of Smart EQ4 in a project (only Track FX chain though).

Thanks for posting your script!

It does wake up the EQ sound (without having to play first) but does not wake up the displayed curve until I do ctrl-z if the SEQ4 UI is open when the script is run.

However, if I run the script when I first open the project (before hitting play works here) the sound is right and then when I open the UI the curve is there.

So until Sonible and or Reaper fixes the problem I've referenced your script in "SWS/S&M: Set project startup action" and fortunately everything acts the way we'd expect.

Note that SWS project start action is project specific so you have to add it for every project you already have SEQ4 in for it to be automated. But you can also add it to your project template(s) and then all new projects will automatically run the fix when you open them. At least this eases the pain until they fix the problem.

[IXix]

Originally Posted by sekim

Thanks for posting your script! ...

You're welcome. I'm glad it's working for you as a startup. That would be the ideal for me too but there must be something in my audio/plugin settings that stops it.


Not a big deal though. I have it on a toolbar button so I just have to remember to press it.

[sekim]

Originally Posted by IXix

I have it on a toolbar button so I just have to remember to press it.

Thats probably the better option than spamming up my projects with what is hopefully a temporary fix, lol... And I do hope they fix it soon, I like what it does a lot.

A bit of a tangent, after testing I noticed it seems to only incorporate (or "listen to") those plugin upstream of SEQ4 when it does its analysis, even when multi-track analysis to do de-masking. I contacted Sonible and they confirmed that this is indeed how it works. And this is actually preferable for me since I plan to use SEQ4 to do "technical EQ" (i.e. eq to target, demask, etc.) and will use a channel strip or discrete EQ after it to do "aesthetic EQ" with my ears once its roughed-in by SEQ4. Of course if SEQ4 comes up with the right sonic solution from an aesthetic perspective too, no need for that. But it is nice imo that we have control to do this sort of thing, kinda get to have our cake and eat it too in this regard imo.

[mks]

Any idea why this script isn’t showing up in actions for me?

[IXix]

Originally Posted by mks

Any idea why this script isn’t showing up in actions for me?

Did you load it as a new action? Just dropping it in the folder isn't enough (sorry if you already know this.)

[sekim]

Anyone heard anything about this from either Sonible or Cockos?

[airon]

Still on 1.0.0 right now.

I'm not using this in a regular session until this is addressed.

[sekim]

Originally Posted by airon

Still on 1.0.0 right now.

I'm not using this in a regular session until this is addressed.

I understand the frustration, but can say doing a toolbar button pointing to the script posted above does work fairly painlessly as a temporary workaround.

[IXix]

Originally Posted by airon

I'm not using this in a regular session until this is addressed.

Wise. I won't be using it on any new sessions either. The script is just to help those who (like me) plastered it all over a project or two in their initial enthusiam.

[IXix]

Originally Posted by sekim

Anyone heard anything about this from either Sonible or Cockos?

Sonible replied on the 15th saying they were on it. I'd expect an update fairly soon.

[sekim]

Originally Posted by IXix

Sonible replied on the 15th saying they were on it. I'd expect an update fairly soon.

I'm new with Sonible. Do you know if/how they notify customers of updates since they don't have a product support portal app?

[Valle]

Originally Posted by sekim

I'm new with Sonible. Do you know if/how they notify customers of updates since they don't have a product support portal app?

In their reply to me they wrote "you'll be notified as soon as an update is available."

Yet, frustrating. I bought it but can't use it. And one can wonder their test routines, because on their website they list a handful DAWs in which the plugin should work, and one is REAPER ...

[sekim]

Originally Posted by Valle

In their reply to me they wrote "you'll be notified as soon as an update is available."

Yet, frustrating. I bought it but can't use it. And one can wonder their test routines, because on their website they list a handful DAWs in which the plugin should work, and one is REAPER ...

Thanks for the info.

I suppose I'm a bit more adventuresome and not opposed to using it with the script posted above. But then I used to be in the software business and have a pretty good feel for problems that are manageable with workarounds and problems to avoid until fixed. Knock on wood, lol.

[jbraner]

It seems to be working OK here :-\


Basically, you're saying just add smarteq4 to a track (drums for me), let it "learn" an eq, save the Reaper file - then when you load the Reaper file back up - the SmartEQ4 isn't doing anything?
It seems to still be working when I open the file back up.
I can hit bypass and hear that it's still working...

[Valle]

Originally Posted by jbraner

It seems to be working OK here :-\


Basically, you're saying just add smarteq4 to a track (drums for me), let it "learn" an eq, save the Reaper file - then when you load the Reaper file back up - the SmartEQ4 isn't doing anything?
It seems to still be working when I open the file back up.
I can hit bypass and hear that it's still working...

That’s interesting.

That means it’s not necessarily (only) a sonible issue.

What OS/REAPER-versions are you running?

EDIT: BTW, did you by any chance have the group view active? Because, I noticed, that SMART EQ4 saves/reads/loads correctly when using Group View (even if it's just one instance).

[jbraner]

Originally Posted by Valle

That’s interesting.

That means it’s not necessarily (only) a sonible issue.

What OS/REAPER-versions are you running?

Oh sorry, I should have mentioned that.
Reaper 7.09
windows 11

[Valle]

Originally Posted by jbraner

Oh sorry, I should have mentioned that.
Reaper 7.09
windows 11

BTW, did you by any chance have the group view active? Because, I noticed, that SMART EQ4 saves/reads/loads correctly when using Group View (even if it's just one instance).

[jbraner]

Here's what it looks like




It's just a drums preset running over Superior drummer - for a test.
It's not doing a lot - but you can hear it, and it stays set after reloading Reaper.

[Valle]

Originally Posted by jbraner

It's just a drums preset running over Superior drummer - for a test. It's not doing a lot - but you can hear it, and it stays set after reloading Reaper.

Thank you for your time and patience, jbraner! I also take you're running on 64-bit OS/REAPER.

However, this was kind of "bad" news (not your fault, jbraner ). Because, it's not an obvious bug on the sonible side anymore, which also means sonible has no reason to prioritize this issue (and I assume they know, because, still, they have tested the plugin themselves in REAPER).

I bet it's a setting/configuration issue in either Windows or REAPER. I mean, it could even be such a simple (stupid?) thing as a Windows Services that is or isn't running as expected ...

So here I sit, with $130 plugin that won't work on my system, because I don't have a clue.

[jbraner]

Hi Valle,


Well, that is why I've been worried that I'm not testing the same thing as you. I certainly haven't done anything clever to make it "work", and you aren't the only one having the problem. :-\


I really don't do anything special with smarteq - the only thing I might say is - I have "adaptive" set to 100, which makes it "wiggle" all the time.
Could this this be different than your setting?
Have you got adaptive set to 100?
Have a look at the other settings on the graphic - have you got anything different?

[blumpy]

It's crashing constantly on my end and is unusable when grouping. I've reported it to sonible.

[Valle]

Originally Posted by jbraner

Hi Valle,


Well, that is why I've been worried that I'm not testing the same thing as you. I certainly haven't done anything clever to make it "work", and you aren't the only one having the problem. :-\


I really don't do anything special with smarteq - the only thing I might say is - I have "adaptive" set to 100, which makes it "wiggle" all the time.
Could this this be different than your setting?
Have you got adaptive set to 100?
Have a look at the other settings on the graphic - have you got anything different?

HAH! You're absolutely right!

I tested back and forth. If I set "Adaptive" > 0 (even as low as 1) it will work. Kind of ... still not as expected:

- I set the adaptive to > 0 – after all the "learning" process.
- I Leave the SEQ4 FX window open. Save and close the project.
- Re-open the project.

Now, I see SEQ4 FX window, and all the settings are there except for the curve (it's not there at all). Then when I hit play, the curve appears and the sound is there.

So there are still some strange issues going on.

If you have the time, could you please test with "Adaptive" set to 0?

[jbraner]

Originally Posted by blumpy

It's crashing constantly on my end and is unusable when grouping. I've reported it to sonible.

Grouping doesn't work here either.

[jbraner]

Originally Posted by Valle

HAH! You're absolutely right!

I tested back and forth. If I set "Adaptive" > 0 (even as low as 1) it will work. Kind of ... still not as expected:

- I set the adaptive to > 0 – after all the "learning" process.
- I Leave the SEQ4 FX window open. Save and close the project.
- Re-open the project.

Now, I see SEQ4 FX window, and all the settings are there except for the curve (it's not there at all). Then when I hit play, the curve appears and the sound is there.

So there are still some strange issues going on.

If you have the time, could you please test with "Adaptive" set to 0?

Valle - I set adaptive = 0 and I got it to misbehave
After reloading Reaper, it wasn't doing anything. Then I turned adaptive up a little and it started working. It actually "does" a lot more with adaptive turned all the way up (to 100).


So, neither of us is making it up - and turning on "adaptive" is your workaround
(I think it works better this way anyway...)

[Valle]

Originally Posted by jbraner

So, neither of us is making it up - and turning on "adaptive" is your workaround
(I think it works better this way anyway...)

Maybe, but I just can’t use a broken plugin. I can’t really tell, but I imagine that there’s a slight delay before the effect kicks in. And I still feel I need to go through any instance to make sure they are running. No ...

This is really frustrating. I was really excited to be using v4 in my new projects. And while v3 is OK, there are functions in the new version that I thought was so great. It’s like buying a brand new bad ass car but being forced to drive your old fart car because the damn thing won’t start – unless you push it down a hill …

GAH!!!

I wonder how sonible did their test in REAPER and missed this glitch.

[jbraner]

Well, that's a good question.


Personally, I would want to have it running in "adaptive" mode anyway - and it seems fine as long as this is enabled.

[IXix]

V1.01 is out and it seems to have fixed the problem, for me at least.