Old 11-04-2018, 06:24 AM   #1
deeb
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Default req: Pre Chain and Pos Chain

It would be really useful i think a pre and pos fx chain, to setup things like this: pre equalizer, pos equalizer, pos gate, pos compressor, so that while adding instruments or musical fx in the "main fx chain" it wouldn't mess with the orders of this fixed fx. This way set default chains would be much more useful and pratical to use IMO.

I did a bad mockup! just to get the idea. Ofcourse mockup is always easy. Devs know how to implement if they want to.

Something like this:



(original https://i.imgur.com/mvJFrw8.png)

By default everything would go to "main fx chain" as it is now.

And then some proper actions like:
- Save All Fx as Default Pre Chain
- Save All Fx as Default Main Chain
- Save All Fx as Default Pos Chain

Hope you get the idea! edit: and suggestions are more then welcome
All the best and thank you!

Last edited by deeb; 11-04-2018 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 11-04-2018, 06:35 AM   #2
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Happily Reaper is constructed in a straight forward way, completely ignorant about what kind of plugin the user decides to put where in the effect chain. Deviations from this would not be compatible with decently clear (Pin and Midi) routing mechanisms.

(Unfortunately) this seems to be impossible with ARA plugins which for working decently seemingly need to be placed at the beginning of the chain, and Reaper forcibly puts them there.

-Michael
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Old 11-04-2018, 06:48 AM   #3
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edit: anyway

Last edited by deeb; 11-04-2018 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 11-04-2018, 07:26 AM   #4
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Your request is empty content (pre FX staying at 1st slot is same as regular 1st slot FX) and illogical to existed routing design (I doubt most users fully understand how regular routing works, even without such pre/post mess).
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Old 11-04-2018, 07:46 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpl View Post
Your request is empty content (pre FX staying at 1st slot is same as regular 1st slot FX) and illogical to existed routing design (I doubt most users fully understand how regular routing works, even without such pre/post mess).
ok mpl! i don't think you believe i wanted to fix pre fx to one plugin!and pos fx to 3 plugins.
also! pre/post mess is somewhere else! i am not thinking about pins. i am thinking about a feature. If pins are related, devs take care if they want to.

also ! in the way i see Pre and Pos don't need pin at all! Pin system stays as is in the "main chain". That is why request is to had 2 other "special" chains.

edit: i will update later the mockup to be visually more clear the independence of the 2 chains i am requesting

Last edited by deeb; 11-04-2018 at 08:28 AM.
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Old 11-04-2018, 08:37 AM   #6
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totally want this feature too
I thought of this also a few days ago.

Some plugins should stay last in chain no matter what you insert, and others should be first no matter what. Of course depending on each case and how the user wants to use it.

Pins can stay unaffected and just work as they work already.
All FX-chain related actions can and should stay as they are and just target the "main-FX-area" (so just ignore the pre and post FX-area.)

I dont see any problems why this should mess with anything that is already there.

Hope it gets a thought from the devs.
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Old 11-04-2018, 11:00 PM   #7
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In other threads there have been discussions on allowing for combining chains of plugins ("Macros") to virtual super-plugins, that can be used like plugins in a track's chain. Those "Macros" would feature "Macro-Parameter" controls that within the Macro will tweak many parameters via a dedicated function curve each.

Internally such a Macro wold look like an effect chain, externally such a Macro would log like a single plugin, Audio- and Midi- function-wise it would do nothing, it's only about managing plugins in the GUI and in the automation.

Having this would satisfy the OP's request in a much more versatile and "Reaper-like" (i.e. not forcing a predefined workflow) way.

I seem to remember that there have been scripts attempting to create something like this.

In fact I would like do have such a Macro combining two ReaVerbs to a true stereo reverb.

-Michael
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Old 11-05-2018, 12:30 AM   #8
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Mschnell op doesn't want super effects. Op asking for a pre chain and a post chain for the current fxChain. Nothing fancy or complex ... It's quite the opposite. The aim is to simplify workflow and make better use of default chains and not messing with their orders when Adding new plugins.

Personally I would set defaults:
Pre chain: midi tool, equalizer (both off)
Main chain: probably nothing
Pos chain: equalizer, compressor, gate, spectrum analyzer (off)

This way, I would have a midi controller which would show, and control each of them, and when adding plugins to main chain pre and post chain would stay intact.
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Old 11-05-2018, 07:17 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
Nothing fancy or complex ...
But completely incompatible with the ways of Reaper, as it dictates a predefined workflow.

Hence strictly -1 for that.

-Michael
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Old 11-05-2018, 07:42 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
But completely incompatible with the ways of Reaper, as it dictates a predefined workflow.

Hence strictly -1 for that.

-Michael
For curiosity .. what other workflow would be needed?
With your criteria, when there was no fxchain you would -1 too because fxchain also predifines a workflow. More .. if you got the time you should probably -1 every request because everyone of them predifines a workflow. Also every new released feature you should complain about it because it predifines a workflow.

Last edited by deeb; 11-05-2018 at 07:48 AM.
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Old 11-05-2018, 07:47 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
... a pre and pos fx chain ...
Since you can move FX up and down in the chain I don't
understand your suggestion. What is the advantage of a
special separation of insert-FX into pre-insert-fx and
post-insert-fx?

You can just drag any FX up and down wherever you want -
that is maximal flexibility already.
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Old 11-05-2018, 08:04 AM   #12
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Enroe! Because it is more flexible and logicaly separated each step of the chain. Pre and post are more static and so more suitable for reusing default chains - Depending on the needs of each user.

Do you have a default chain?
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Old 11-05-2018, 05:09 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
But completely incompatible with the ways of Reaper, as it dictates a predefined workflow.

Hence strictly -1 for that.

-Michael
not at all incompatible, the "middle-chain" is the normal regular FX-chain.
You dont have to use the pre and post-chain if you dont need it.

I don't get how people don't get the usefulness of pre- main and post-chain division xD
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Old 11-05-2018, 10:35 PM   #14
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Why do you want to have exactly three chains in a chain, instead of just one ?
Why not two, seven or 26 ?

This makes absolutely no sense to me.

-Michael
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Old 11-05-2018, 10:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Why do you want to have exactly three chains in a chain, instead of just one ?
Why not two, seven or 26 ?

This makes absolutely no sense to me.

-Michael
Why pre fader, fader, and pos fader? Why a sandwish is pre bread slice,ham and pos bread slice?
To surround something.. in this case the fxchain

Last edited by deeb; 11-05-2018 at 11:04 PM.
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Old 11-06-2018, 01:56 AM   #16
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IEnroe: More... imagine actions like: load pre chain in selected tracks.. load post chain on selected tracks, delete pre chain on selected tracks, delete post chain on selected tracks ... Bypass all pre FX plugins on selected tracks, bypass all post plugins on selected tracks,. And their reverses too.
Now Imagine doing this manually.. track by track, plugin by plugin .. as it is now. Is it the most versátil ?. . Maybe not? You are just thinking in single changes.. but not in bulk changes.

Now Imagine this applied on item FX too. Imagine To do this manually item by item vs bulk way:
- load pre chain in selected items..
- load post chain on selected items,
- delete pre chain on selected items ,
- delete post chain on selected items,
- Bypass all pre FX plugins on selected items,
- bypass all post plugins on selected items ,
- enablr all pre FX plugins on selected items,
- enable all post plugins on selected items ,
- show /enable/bypass/remove first on pre FX chain on selected items

- and on and on

Last edited by deeb; 11-06-2018 at 03:31 AM.
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Old 11-07-2018, 07:51 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Why do you want to have exactly three chains in a chain, instead of just one ?
Why not two, seven or 26 ?

This makes absolutely no sense to me.

-Michael
ok, as you obviously don't want it, here is 1 simple use-case in everyday mixing here at my place:

- pre-chain: attack-sustain-splitter OR a mid-side-splitter
-> goes into: MAIN-fx-chain
here i put in my processing fx likes comps, eqs, or whatever I want.
-> this goes into "post-chain":
where i have my mid-side-mixer or attack-sustain-mixer to balance mid-side or attack-sustain that I previously seperated.

Without pre-main-post-fx-chain it is very very tedious to add fx and try out some processing, because you always have to take care where the fx goes when you load it into the fx-chain.

One other quick example could be to put any filter in the post-chain, which always stays the same, and I can try out different processing in the main-fx.


So, only because you don't get it, don't act like it's a stupid idea please.
It is very useful feature-wish, and I myself thought about this already a few times and wished for it.

If you don't like it, don't use it. Very simple.
I for example NEVER use the already built-in "pre-FX-chain" but a lot of people are. Should I now complain that it is there??
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Old 11-07-2018, 11:31 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dasombre View Post
I for example NEVER use the already built-in "pre-FX-chain" but a lot of people are. Should I now complain that it is there??
You supposedly mean the "input FX chain". But same is at a completely different location in the routing diagram, (i.e. before the point of recording/playing from/to disk) than the standard FX chain and not just the standard chain split into multiple chunks.

-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 11-07-2018 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 11-07-2018, 11:36 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
You supposedly mean the "input FX chain". But same is a t a completely different location in the routing diagram
reaper is for users or for routing diagram? : )
Anyway! again ! this thread is not about routing diagram
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Old 11-07-2018, 12:07 PM   #20
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request seems fairly logical/sensible,like many requests are + can be.
@deeb >this is what your after right,but native= yes! > does it not work for you?



eugen2777 also solves the 'multichanneling problem' quite nicely with this,as it appears to sum all channels back to 1/2=sorted.
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Old 11-07-2018, 12:15 PM   #21
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Welcome back bri1! Yes that is similar to what I am requesting.
That script is awesome, but as a few show stoper bugs, so I cannot really on it. (It is Almost there tho)
Plus all the action/funtionality that refered during this thread are missing.
Lots of them or all: ) for adding, save , enable, disable , etc for selected item fx or selected track FX , pres and post

Last edited by deeb; 11-07-2018 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 11-07-2018, 12:27 PM   #22
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Quote:
That script is awesome, but as a few show stoper bugs, so I cannot really on it.

yep-obviously your not a fool-your quite right and quite often i agree with points made elsewhere.
thing is,none of us casual users write the programme: so that's that.
hope is a great thing.i hope for a lot-and 1 day it will all appear!
hf!
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Old 11-07-2018, 12:44 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bri1 View Post
hope is a great thing.i hope for a lot-and 1 day it will all appear!
hf!


I try to argument but until now I am not very lucky in any of my requests!
I hope for you too! Specially good music and happiness because Daw is not in our hands!
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Old 11-07-2018, 01:28 PM   #24
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I try to argument but until now I am not very lucky in any of my requests!
I hope for you too! Specially good music and happiness because Daw is not in our hands!

heh- well you do have all the powers that reaper offers in a working state.
you also have the power to argue,or discussion--but then,at which point does 1,become the other?!
arguing i do not support,as it eventually leads to wars.
discussion,or conversation about a topic on the other hand,invites open mindedness and often changing of old ways to make for the new.
a request may simple in people's minds-but they do not have todo lengthy code writing sessions to just 'make it all work' 1st time,all the time.
the only constant i see is change..music is just that: changes over time.
softwares also change,over time,or not.
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Old 11-07-2018, 02:17 PM   #25
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I could go on and on. About arguing vs discussing. This thread is a bit of example what is arguing in reaper forum, but sincerely not today ! : )


About spending time with coding, it's just option of justin. altho many people contribute for what reaper is, he is the one who decides everything. I feel reaper unbanlanced and that his decision And direction. if you search my requests and nitpicks you see Manny things are really primary for audio editing. I feel I am using a true monster robot full of great features and really powerful and muscled but dummy on some really basic things.

Anyway! I need to rest : ) bye bye

PS: I thought to argue is the act of giving arguments and facts. Am I wrong?

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Old 11-08-2018, 03:58 AM   #26
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I feel I am using a true monster robot full of great features and really powerful and muscled but dummy on some really basic things.

^ agreed.
differences in argue v discuss> emotion and handling of emotions while engaging!
many requests are great -
*but*
it seems illogical to keep trying to renovate a house sitting on a flood plain.,with gaping great holes in the floors+roof.

this is a house justin built- i would rather the footings had been dug deeper and filled with concrete,so the walls don't keep cracking,so we do not have to keep redecorating a foundation that's liable to floods,every now n then.
spore a methaphor.
many people input to reaper's developing-- but cockos,as a team,stay small in number- so things take much longer to initiate with less heads to focus and think on subjects+implement after considering.

a house needs strong foundations to stand in the waters it rests apon.
many requests actually go back years-meanwhile other new features come along that nobody requested.. oops.
if it were i - would fix all known faults,**before** adding anything new,making sure i never have to return to any shoddy workmanship.
do it right 1st time-walk away. > all are happier.
2 dents worth^
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Old 11-08-2018, 04:29 AM   #27
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ok! agree to! the thing is that house is really solid already! but seems like constructor leaves per purpose some nails just because he wants or he can't see them! because he is used to walk always with construction shoes and users like me walk inside house barefoot : )
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Old 11-08-2018, 04:41 AM   #28
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^lolz- try boots!

sometimes i do feel like it's a construction site where having to wear boots,hardhat+high vis vests + site rules/regulations + high levels of health+safety are in force-daily!
not knocking it tbh-reaper is very smart now--just wait until it gets the dna upgrade it so long waited for!!
glhf using reaper-- i do a lot!
cheerzzz.
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Old 11-08-2018, 04:45 AM   #29
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"i do yoga"! and tend do take bath every day! boots nahh : )

cheers!
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Old 11-11-2018, 07:26 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bri1 View Post



eugen2777 also solves the 'multichanneling problem' quite nicely with this,as it appears to sum all channels back to 1/2=sorted.
Bri1, i am curious do you use this? you don't have bugs with it? i am on OSX, you on windows? it's so near to be useful and perfect, but tinny bugs there so i can't use it.
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Old 11-11-2018, 07:28 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dasombre View Post
here is 1 simple use-case in everyday mixing here at my place:
- pre-chain: attack-sustain-splitter OR a mid-side-splitter
...
excuse me! i am curious what is attack-sustain-splitter? where can i find it and read about it? sounds interesting even without a clue what it does : ) , but i don't find it anywere
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Old 11-11-2018, 10:12 AM   #32
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Here is my underwhelmingly popular take on this issue: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=130438

And a couple more:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=192783
https://forums.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=1321932
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Old 11-11-2018, 01:59 PM   #33
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Quote:
curious do you use this? you don't have bugs with it? i am on OSX, you on windows? it's so near to be useful and perfect, but tinny bugs there so i can't use it.

ello-well tbch..no bugs noticed yet.. do not use it regular enough to have actually found any faults with it... seems to work well from times i did try though using windoze-

my only gripe might be that this is another floating script.. much preferring all functions to be completely integrated into reaper rather than 3rd party un_attached code..no offense meant.
using scripts kinda leaves me feeling the main programme should have these functions written in..and without it's rather incomplete.
the greater functions are put there from other peoples inputs and efforts- like the example from eugen2777 + many others.
+don't mind paying 1 small crew,but not a whole army of writers. some are making a small living out of all this..lol>?

this fxrack is usefull-make it native + fully functional=sold!
+ it looks more interesting than the current set of native plugs!! looks great to me=simple=effective-usefull.
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Old 11-14-2018, 08:54 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxAsteria View Post
Here is my underwhelmingly popular take on this issue: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=130438
i like your mockup in general! i also like the simplicity of cubase inspector! I specially agree with "TOO MANY DIFFERENT FX WINDOWS" : )
some times i wonder if they do this per purpose! a (not so) little stone on this wonderful shoe just to annoy us

i could see the information in your mockup in cubase style inspector with accordion:
like: https://getbootstrap.com/docs/4.0/co...ordion-example

plus a preference for single-target or multi-target (i'd set single target since i have most of the time 1280x800 screen)
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Old 05-26-2019, 09:30 AM   #35
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B u m p
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Old 05-26-2019, 09:47 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
I specially agree with "TOO MANY DIFFERENT FX WINDOWS" : )
some times i wonder if they do this per purpose!

Yea it's annoying but I'm fairly certain that's not the case. Reaper's complexity has grown organically over time. Sometimes that has the appearance of things being "tacked on."

I think some issues would probably require a code rewrite from the ground up and just aren't worth it. I think it would be cool someday to do a complete overhaul or Reaper to work out the kinks and modernize, but maybe it's just not feasible with a small team.
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