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Old 05-28-2020, 08:43 PM   #1
Soli Deo Gloria
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Default Kontakt in Ubuntu Studio - some stutter

I've just installed Kontakt 6.2.2 with Native Access. Previously, I installed Winetricks and did the override setting (native) of the mscvp140.dll in the /.wine/drive_c/Windows/System32 folder. I also set the Windows mode in Wine to Windows 10. After all of this NA worked OK.


Now, with Kontakt, I see a very similar performance to the Windows install, except for one important thing : there is some stutter when I play live with a patch from LASS 2.5, or the Oboe 1 from Berlin Woodwinds Legacy libraries, which are the first instruments I tested. The CPU usage and RAM are just fine (I even tried setting multi-core processing off and increasing the pre-load buffer size). This seems to be something related to disk streaming xruns, which is strange since all my libraries are on a dedicated SSD. The buffer size in Reaper changed from 128 to 1024, with similar results, so I can't attribute the problem to a low block size.

Am I missing some Wine setting or anything similar to get proper disk access?


Thanks in advance!

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Old 05-29-2020, 06:01 AM   #2
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You can always "cheat" and try the Liquorix Kernel, was very good for playback and removed lots of "hair" spikes on the Graph i was eyeballing, should be easy to install and try on Ubuntu if you are curious and in the mood

During startup, press (left?) SHIFT, so you can end up chosing what ever kernel you have installed, you can also try install, use Grub Customizer.

Also, if you check run the program Htop, you can see if your specific scenario likes SWAP or , what..
I am not on Liquorix anymore because all is good now, just a tip and because, if it even lags on Liquorix, then something else is up, kind'a-thing.

Ooops, https://liquorix.net/#install
Type: uname -sr in the Terminal and you should see what kernel is in use
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Old 05-30-2020, 06:44 AM   #3
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I usually install jackd2 (sets up some realtime things by choosing yes when prompted, and jackd2 gets installed with the Ardour install as well) and rtirq-init and irqbalance and the Liquorix or Debian rt kernel for Debian or the Ubuntu low-latency kernel is ok for Ubuntu.
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Old 05-30-2020, 11:05 PM   #4
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You can always "cheat" and try the Liquorix Kernel, was very good for playback and removed lots of "hair" spikes on the Graph i was eyeballing, should be easy to install and try on Ubuntu if you are curious and in the mood

I'll certainly try it, and will even test AV Linux, to see if it makes any difference at all...


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I usually install jackd2 (sets up some realtime things by choosing yes when prompted, and jackd2 gets installed with the Ardour install as well) and rtirq-init and irqbalance and the Liquorix or Debian rt kernel for Debian or the Ubuntu low-latency kernel is ok for Ubuntu.

I've got those covered in Ubuntu Studio. Evidently, is not easy at all to get a reasonable performance from Kontakt in Linux, at least similar to Windows. I'll do more tests and then will post here the results and will make a bunch of other questions...
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Old 05-31-2020, 05:55 AM   #5
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I haven't had any problems with kontakt stuttering while playing live. The only time I had a similar problem was with Drumgizmo & I found out it was related to the cpu scaling which on Manjaro was set to powersave. Changing this to performance fixed my problem. Not sure how this is set in Ubuntu Studio but you can find out more about here on the arch wiki.
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Old 05-31-2020, 06:09 AM   #6
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I'm not sure how Ubuntu does things, but i think the Manjaro devs actually patch their Kernels abit, how much Vs Liquorix, i don't know, but
So, i don't really need a low-latency Kernel on Manjaro. (speaking for myself)
Main standard Kernels (https://www.kernel.org/) feel much better this year than the year before i think, also

--

i'm using the,

echo performance | sudo tee /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_governor

echo powersave | sudo tee /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_governor

thing'ie
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Old 05-31-2020, 06:22 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by SmajjL View Post
I'm not sure how Ubuntu does things, but i think the Manjaro devs actually patch their Kernels abit, how much Vs Liquorix, i don't know, but
So, i don't really need a low-latency Kernel on Manjaro. (speaking for myself)
Main standard Kernels (https://www.kernel.org/) feel much better this year than the year before i think, also

Same here, I never use a the RT kernel although I have it installed just in-case.
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Old 05-31-2020, 06:29 AM   #8
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Same here, I never use a the RT kernel although I have it installed just in-case.
I'm just using the low latency kernel from Xubuntu, which I installed with,

sudo apt-get install linux-lowlatency

and have never tried any of the RT kernels, because I'm not having any problems.
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Old 05-31-2020, 08:22 AM   #9
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I haven't had any problems with kontakt stuttering while playing live. The only time I had a similar problem was with Drumgizmo & I found out it was related to the cpu scaling which on Manjaro was set to powersave. Changing this to performance fixed my problem. Not sure how this is set in Ubuntu Studio but you can find out more about here on the arch wiki.

Ubuntu Studio has some nice, integrated controls to set up all of that. In fact, I have it set to "performance", too. This sounds more like some disk access issue, to me. Anyway, I'll be doing some tests during these days, if I find the time, changing the kernel to Liquorix, reinstalling a Rescuezilla system image with a better dual partition scheme (I have some grub problems due to the previous Windows 7 install, which apparently have been preventing me from testing another kernel), and even trying out another distros, if necessary.



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I'm just using the low latency kernel from Xubuntu, which I installed with,

sudo apt-get install linux-lowlatency

and have never tried any of the RT kernels, because I'm not having any problems.

Well, it's really good to know that other users are using NI stuff without any problem in Linux. I'll have to find my optimal settings/setup before reaching that stage. For now, with "vanilla" Ubuntu Studio - as I commented in the "Time Critical" thread - I have more than achieved my initial goals with Linux. Taking full advantage of Komplete 10 would be like the ice on the cake, really.

Do you know, first hand or with trusted references, that it's indeed possible to run heavy orchestral projects with many, many Kontakt instances in Linux,with a similar performace to Windows?
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Old 06-01-2020, 12:03 PM   #10
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I only have Komplete 12 stuff from Native Instuments, if you have anything that is demoable, then sure, i can try stuff.
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Old 06-08-2020, 08:46 AM   #11
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I only have Komplete 12 stuff from Native Instuments, if you have anything that is demoable, then sure, i can try stuff.

Thanks Smajjl! I'm trying out all the possibilities, before asking you for such a thing. I had to do a fresh install of Ubuntu Studio and deal with some Wine issues - already solved -. If I cannot find the optimal performace for Kontakt, I 'll ask you top try out something...
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Old 06-14-2020, 10:07 PM   #12
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Kontakt continues xrunning like crazy... With Alsa, it's not stutter but silence, and I see that the meter in the track goes down and then up again, as if something muted temporarily the instrument. Is that normal with xruns in Linux? I think I have covered various of the tweaks for audio...

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Old 06-14-2020, 11:10 PM   #13
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I'm on WindozeTenners atm (don't tell Glennbo)
Long shot but you can also check the BIOS for stuff, hyperthreading on or off, p-states, eist, and other throttling stuff of what have we, make sure all looks good.
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Old 06-15-2020, 03:26 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soli Deo Gloria View Post
Kontakt continues xrunning like crazy... With Alsa, it's not stutter but silence, and I see that the meter in the track goes down and then up again, as if something muted temporarily the instrument. Is that normal with xruns in Linux? I think I have covered various of the tweaks for audio...
In some cases, due to computer hardware/OS
variables, you should turn off Kontakt's multi-core support.
I've experienced it both ways in different linux setups,
very little is carved in stone. And then it's worth searching out a set of Reaper's own optimization possibilities that will suit your
current gear.

The sound wavering is far from normal, don't recall
reading that happening to anyone, it's almost like
some products demo limitation
Cheers
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Old 06-15-2020, 08:19 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by SmajjL View Post
I'm on WindozeTenners atm (don't tell Glennbo)

A-haaaa! Gotcha! You change OS's as you do with your socks, don't you?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SmajjL View Post
Long shot but you can also check the BIOS for stuff, hyperthreading on or off, p-states, eist, and other throttling stuff of what have we, make sure all looks good.

Hyperthreading is off, here. I did it long ago for Windows, and it has remained like that. Regarding P-states, eist and throttling, I don't remember if I tweaked any of those during my Win optimizations, years ago. I don't even know or remember what are those things, honestly...


Quote:
Originally Posted by 4duhwinnn View Post
In some cases, due to computer hardware/OS
variables, you should turn off Kontakt's multi-core support.
I've experienced it both ways in different linux setups,
very little is carved in stone. And then it's worth searching out a set of Reaper's own optimization possibilities that will suit your
current gear.

The sound wavering is far from normal, don't recall
reading that happening to anyone, it's almost like
some products demo limitation
Cheers

I've just seen that my PCI audio card, an old M-Audio Audiophile 192, behaves much better than the USB Komplete Audio 6. I guess that indicates that there is indeed an IRQ conflict. I've already opened another thread about it, so I'll have to research on that topic, I think...
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Old 06-16-2020, 01:42 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Soli Deo Gloria View Post
A-haaaa! Gotcha! You change OS's as you do with your socks, don't you?

Hyperthreading is off, here. I did it long ago for Windows, and it has remained like that. Regarding P-states, eist and throttling, I don't remember if I tweaked any of those during my Win optimizations, years ago. I don't even know or remember what are those things, honestly...
On Linux distros hopping, caaa-a-an't say you're wrong there löl, this year, *i'm wewwy guilty* based on a try'e story
But without that^^, i would not know that i prefer Arch-based and the why's, Debian-based is 2nd, alt, Linux Mint

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At least the HT is so easy/fast to try on the exact same project, see if you notice good or worse for your personal current scenario.

4duhwinnn's tip also, adding that to my notepad myself

My daily bonus:
On Windows i install Wacom and the cookie-monster shows up... on Linux KDE Plasma, not so much
I'm not reason'less about Windoze yah know, but i will use dual-boot for a while, hopefully only a month, i will stay in peter-pan-mode, fear not, just doing some serious business that could do without any "oops" atm
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Old 06-23-2020, 09:12 AM   #17
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I think your problem is Alsa, I would better work with Jack. I installed Carla and Catia and Jack works better for me as I can properly see the patching and patch things easier (visually). I have no issues with stuttering like I had before.
BTW those old M-Audio seem to be working just fine in Linux while giving all sorts of problems in Windows and Mac (because of old drivers). Got a friend who bought one and tried it in Linux and has been a happy man since.
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Old 06-23-2020, 09:32 AM   #18
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I think your problem is Alsa, I would better work with Jack. I installed Carla and Catia and Jack works better for me as I can properly see the patching and patch things easier (visually). I have no issues with stuttering like I had before.
Well, first of all, take a look at Nspa's posts on this thread. I think he has nailed the issue regarding my use-case with utmost precision :

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=238340

And regarding Jack, yes, I agree that its modular environment is indeed a bliss. The only problem with any potential xrun in a live situation is that it seems to stutter in such cases, while ALSA only outputs a brief silence. For a live scenario, I vastly prefer a silence gap than a piercing "beeeep". Anyway, I 'm now working only with lighter Win instruments/FXs or native ones, and the performace is perfectly fine - aside from some strange bugs with things like some of the U- he native synths in conjunction with JS FXs, which I describe in another thread :

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=238653

Regarding Kontakt, I'll see if a dual boot with Manjaro or Arch is viable to run Komplete with Nspa's solution. According to him, a revision of Linux's kernel is pending, which could provide a solution to this issue, but we can never know when will it reach public widespread. For now, my goals with a good set of Win/Linux Fxs is more than achieved.


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BTW those old M-Audio seem to be working just fine in Linux while giving all sorts of problems in Windows and Mac (because of old drivers). Got a friend who bought one and tried it in Linux and has been a happy man since.
Yes, my Audiophile 192 works just fine, but in my current work scenario, it is way more comfortable for me to use NI's Komplete Audio (easier headphones plug, volume faders at the reach of my hands, etc.). Other users have had no problem with it, as it seems. The issue here, I'm almost sure, is what Nspa describes in the link above. It just matches all of my observations regarding Kontakt/wine performance in Ubuntu Studio and AV Linux, the two distros I have tried up to now.
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Old 06-23-2020, 12:39 PM   #19
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That makes sense, thanks for the information. I always blamed Alsa for the stuttering.
I'm glad you found the reason of your issues I know those things always drive me mad.

Thanks for the info.
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Old 06-24-2020, 01:35 AM   #20
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Do we need a ReaNux Distribution ?

-Michael
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Old 06-24-2020, 05:51 AM   #21
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That makes sense, thanks for the information. I always blamed Alsa for the stuttering.
I'm glad you found the reason of your issues I know those things always drive me mad.

Thanks for the info.

You're welcome! I'm glad it helped... For me at least, it was the insight I was looking for..


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Do we need a ReaNux Distribution ?

-Michael

We need it desperately!
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