2.4pre2 is up!

Justin · 06-30-2008, 09:05 PM

As usual.. sorry for so many (questionable) pre1s. I made a scrub/jog mode that hopefully will please the likes of Airon.. Try ctrl+middlemouse drag in the arrange view.. of course you can customize this some..

planetnine · 06-30-2008, 09:18 PM

i take it ctrl+ limits scrub to 1x speed?

Justin · 06-30-2008, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by planetnine

i take it ctrl+ limits scrub to 1x speed?

holding ctrl puts it in scrub mode, rather than jog, where the mouse movements = playhead movements.. you can choose whether to limit both modes to 1x in Prefs/playback.

Art Evans · 06-30-2008, 09:30 PM

Well, I have to say scrub works nicely now with the revised ballistics. But I'd still recommend down the track use of alt/scrub to provide looped scrub at playhead.

Justin · 06-30-2008, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Evans

Well, I have to say scrub works nicely now with the revised ballistics. But I'd still recommend down the track use of alt/scrub to provide looped scrub at playhead.

I'll look at this.. would the loop be centered on the edit cursor? How big a loop you thinkin? would it just play the loop once the cursor comes to a stop?

Art Evans · 06-30-2008, 09:43 PM

Centred on the cursor I think. In Audition it really does sound like you're at a precise point, so the loop must be pretty tiny. And I suspect they do something to kind of smooth it - like each end of the tiny loop being crossfaded? To be honest, I suspect if you were able to implement it as you first think fit, then try it on say the transient of a drum hit, you'll quickly hear how it should be if you haven't got it right, if that makes sense. In Audition, as you move the cursor, the sampling continues at the point the cursor is, and if you hold still, it just repeats that tiny bit forever. So as you get to the drum transient (for instance) you gradually hear it appear with tck tck tck as you move to the right. Maybe I can find a way to capture the sound in Audition and upload a little sample.

argee · 06-30-2008, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin

As usual.. sorry for so many (questionable) pre1s...

That's OK, we'll let it go this time...

Honestly man, with this kind of development speed, there is nothing to be sorry about.

I would think you wouldn't want the loop to play until the cursor is stopped to avoid a bunch of overlapping loops, but others may disagree.

cheers

planetnine · 06-30-2008, 10:07 PM

it would be useful to be able to change the loop so that the cursor is in the centre or at the start or end of the loop (helps in locating the start of a transient or event).

modifier keys anybody?

Art Evans · 06-30-2008, 10:18 PM

I'm thinking left edge now, actually. You want to cut where the cursor is.

Bevosss · 06-30-2008, 10:20 PM

It still has that selection bug when editing automation per-item (this doesn't happen with the track automation, I checked)...left-click in the same track after editing doesn't change item selection, neither does right-click drag. A small but annoying thing ...

An action or button for toggling scrub would be neat, seeing as it needs to be turned off fully to allow the 'select on top of items macro' to work without making unplanned noises.

Pretty useful otherwise, this is going to be a great update.

Bevosss · 06-30-2008, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by planetnine

it would be useful to be able to change the loop so that the cursor is in the centre or at the start or end of the loop (helps in locating the start of a transient or event).

modifier keys anybody?

Nice idea...

Bevosss · 06-30-2008, 10:31 PM

Quote:

+ click of middle mouse button now defaults to jog/scrub

Cool! Well, I hope no one needed their middle mouse button for navigating or something else (I'm pretty sure that vsti-select script/exe for cableguy won't work now for one)...

But it has a cool byproduct, in that you can now place the cursor without snapping, and without changing selection...not bad! No modifiers required for placement now, just left and middle click.

EDIT: ahh, just found a workaround to avoid that audio glitch when selecting with scrub enabled...click the middle button first, then Q (if that's your shortcut).

I think I'm starting to like that goofy sound it makes now...

Dstruct · 06-30-2008, 10:52 PM

Quote:

+ system: mousewheel is now always sent to a captured window

What is this for exactly?

I thought it would fix http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=22458 (Shortcircuit 1 - Zooming waveform with mousewheel ...), but it doesn't ...

Justin · 06-30-2008, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevosss

It still has that selection bug when editing automation per-item (this doesn't happen with the track automation, I checked)...left-click in the same track after editing doesn't change item selection, neither does right-click drag. A small but annoying thing ...

Hmm, the right click drag selects envelope points if an envelope is focused..

Not sure what you mean about "left click in the same track after editing doesnt change item selection".. does behave the same as a track envelope here..

Bevosss · 06-30-2008, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin

Hmm, the right click drag selects envelope points if an envelope is focused..

Not sure what you mean about "left click in the same track after editing doesnt change item selection".. does behave the same as a track envelope here..

Ahhh...now I can't reproduce that behaviour for item selection, seems to work now in both automation modes? Disregard then, it must have been user error (can't quite work out what happened there).

I do believe that if you right-click drag on an empty area of another track though, it should deselect any items as normal, and remove focus from the envelope ...(since that wouldn't be useful for automation envelopes on the focused track anyway)...it's just my standard de-selection technique since Art pointed that out.

Dstruct · 06-30-2008, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevosss

I do believe that if you right-click drag on an empty area of another track though, it should deselect any items as normal, and remove focus from the envelope ...(since that wouldn't affect automation envelopes for the focused track anyway)...it's just my standard de-selection technique since Art pointed that out.

yes, this could make sense.

Art Evans · 07-01-2008, 02:30 AM

Justin - and all -

I've created a file showing how loop scrubbing works in Audition. The file is at http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/...0scrubbing.wav - about 5Mb.

I created the file by connecting my R-44 recorder by SPDIF to the output of my Mia soundcard while I did some loop scrubbing in Audition. Then using the shiny new facilities in Reaper I annotated the resulting file with some explanatory markers and saved them as cues. So when you open the file, you should be able to see the points of interest and the comments, if you have display of cues enabled in Reaper. Cool, huh?

The file starts with the same very short music segment played back normally three times, so you know how it sounds (you'll probably recognise it anyway). Then I drag the play cursor across the same part of the file with Audition's loop scrubbing enabled. It sounds pretty gross but you should be able to hear how it is sampling the file continuously in tiny loops at normal speed, as I very slowly move the cursor to the right.

At a certain point (marked in the file by a cue) you'll hear that the cursor has come to the transient of a subtle rimshot (or the like). I rest there for a moment so the transient repeats about a thousand times! But that should give you an idea of how tight the loop is. Then I back off a bit before the transient, then go back to the transient edge, then back off a tiny bit as that's where I want to cut. Then you hear three short normal plays from where the cursor has come to rest (and the playback starts with the target rimshot).

And just for the hell of it, this is the capture of those cues in CueListTool -

File: Loop scrubbing.wav

1) unknown: : 0:01.086 Fragment of tune, three times
2) unknown: : 0:11.660 Loop scrubbing same part
3) unknown: : 0:24.983 Here is the rimshot transient
4) unknown: : 0:28.578 Back a bit off the transient
5) unknown: : 0:30.353 Back onto the transient
6) unknown: : 0:31.173 Yup, this is the point
7) unknown: : 0:32.681 Playing three times from that point

I hope that illustrates how loop scrubbing in Reaper might be implemented. Of course the Cockos team might want to improve on that, eg with a user-configurable loop length (with preset minimum and default value) somewhere in prefs... Audition has no adjustments to this facility.

lafours · 07-01-2008, 09:00 AM

is the scrub feature going to work with an MCU....please!?!?!

Tallisman · 07-01-2008, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Evans

Well, I have to say scrub works nicely now with the revised ballistics. But I'd still recommend down the track use of alt/scrub to provide looped scrub at playhead.

am not sure how melodyne does it... but you can slow their transport to 1 bpm and play with minimal artifacts!

.t

beatbybit · 07-01-2008, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallisman

am not sure how melodyne does it... but you can slow their transport to 1 bpm and play with minimal artifacts!

.t

i guess Melodyne is a totally different 'animal'..
it uses a resynth algo instead of slowdown/repitch/playrate.

but please correct me if im wrong.

Xenakios · 07-01-2008, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beatbybit

i guess Melodyne is a totally different 'animal'..
it uses a resynth algo instead of slowdown/repitch/playrate.

but please correct me if im wrong.

Yeah, it's a different thing in Melodyne and a really interesting one. You can actually even completely "freeze" the sound and it doesn't sound bad. And play also in reverse. Melodyne is Magic...

But just too expensive...And I am not interested in the VST plugin versions at all...

boka · 07-01-2008, 12:48 PM

I like the per-take env stuff but in the future this envelope stuff could be switchable if it refers to the whole item (multitake) or just to a single take. And i'm missing a simple pencil tool...
What do you guys think of these?

/boka

Tallisman · 07-01-2008, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boka

I like the per-take env stuff but in the future this envelope stuff could be switchable if it refers to the whole item (multitake) or just to a single take. And i'm missing a simple pencil tool...
What do you guys think of these?

/boka

did you say the other T word?

.t

HappyHarryNET · 07-01-2008, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin

As usual.. sorry for so many (questionable) pre1s. I made a scrub/jog mode that hopefully will please the likes of Airon.. Try ctrl+middlemouse drag in the arrange view.. of course you can customize this some..

trying out Reaper 2.13 trial with O1X. scrub light comes on when pressed but no scrub function. any chance of this getting wired up for O1X console?

also, is there a Reaper/O1X thread here already?

ive read ALOT of this forum already. you people are awesome!
its good to see an involved community and i also like hearing all of the songwriting and music people are recording using Reaper!

//cheers//