REAPER CONTEST - AUGUST 2018 (FEEDBACK)

[DaveKeehl]

I need to address something before someone starts complaining.

As some of you have already pointed out, some mixes were slightly distorted and to be honest it's because of me.

I've always said that I want this contest to be like a real world experience. Not only as far as recorded material but for the loudness aspect as well. This month a few mixes were way quiet while others were really on point. Obviously, after the usual normalization to -14 LUFS the quiet masters were clipping.

I'm sorry if you're mix doesn't sound good anymore compared to last week but it didn't seem fair to me that some people spent time getting things right and then having their product turned down.

I'm sure that the ones that were affected will do better next month

[aftercutrecords]

Haha, I'm 3rd again. Guess I'm consistently 3rd, across the board! Overall, this was a really really hard one, and weirdly I think my mix came out a little distorted. The vocals and the kick, usually my bread and butter, were the toughest part of the mix this time! Glad we could all enjoy ourselves, though! Good job to everyone.

[D Rocks]

Originally Posted by Dex

Just a general comment - music can always be made punchier and it's possible to overdo it. You want your music to be pleasant to listen to even if it's aggressive music, not punch you in the face as hard as it can. Please reference commercial mixes you enjoy listening to.

Anyway I got my vote in. Looking forward to the results and the feedback!

Yes of course this is exactly whatI found was lacking in others. It was in need of serious punch and clarity for the genre and aome were flabby kicks that resonate too longin the low end. I was seek8ng to hear tight punch and good bass balance with overall pleasing tones and interest in vocals

By the way Dex I think I vote for you first. And was hesitating with id 9

[Dex]

Anyone else have feedback? C'mon, I know at least 13 of you all listened to all the submissions

[DaveKeehl]

My plan was to give you guys feedback either tonight or tomorrow! I was busy studying and doing some work for the last week

[kgarello]

Nice job Grass!

Lots of good mixes with tough tracks.

Hopefully I'll be a contender next month!

[RiffStreet]

Sorry guys but I did not have time last month to give the mixes a close listen and post feedback. I barely had time to mix the song myself. One quick thing I wanted to mention... if you noticed that I cut out the "It's a war....." backing vocals during the chorus, it was intentional because I really disliked them. (My mix was ID #4.) I just couldn't bring myself to leave them in....!

[Not_Here]

Originally Posted by Dex

Anyone else have feedback? C'mon, I know at least 13 of you all listened to all the submissions

Yeah I made notes on my listening passes.
Thanks Dex for your notes on my train wreck - helped out tremendously.(not really... )
Thanks for noticing the guitar dive.. it was wacked but I was bored and took a risk...

Then I realized... all this feedback we get, what do we do with it? are there going to be any great conversations where we try others advice and listen back? will there ever be a really fantastic radio ready mix of this song?


I totally made a rookie mistake (my own assessment) in that I "assumed" I had the EQ switch on the back of my Monitors at +3db for treble. UMMMM no... turns out they were at -3db. while I was mixing I figured if I was hearing a hot high end that I might want to keep it down a little.. Well what I was really doing was ensuring that there was not enough top end on my whole mix once it was out of my system.
I also proved to myself the adage
'if it doesn't grab the listener in the first three seconds...."
So in turn not one person noticed the work and detail that was in there.. Too bad for me - I'll know better to double check my system and Not F around with it between mixes (then forget).

In fact I went back and did a mix without the stock only rule, and my monitors set correctly - and it f'n jams. But does any of this matter? nope. Will the feedback make any difference? nope... none that will ever be heard by anyone that provided any.

I was surprised how many people just ignored the Sub hit. I put a lot of time into that and got it done well... but again my bad for - what was the term "underwater"? error.

So all of you did well in my opinion. ALL of you did better than I did because at least you didn't f up your mix with a rookie mistake.

I thought the mixes that actually took time to add some tasty delays to the vox were better than the ones that played it safe. I loved the mixes that let other instruments fade out just leaving some solo vox.

but I didn't see any comments on any of that.
I would have liked some feedback on where the hell that clang of the cymbal was. (I've since found it). Or maybe some feedback on how to reverse the "underwater" error with some of the stock stuff ( I'm not diggin many of those at all)

I apologize just a little for taking a bit to post feedback, but work....
Whatever.... meh.

here are the raw notes:



1 ok nice even mix throughout nothing out of the lines safe and clean KICK QUIET
SNARE QUIET no sub hit good job on the pressure bldng up and bk vox little quiet

2 good spread on gtrs snare present kick quiet but nice bottom end with base on chord changes I want rest of the drums to hit as well as snare at times bass has nice rumble
good job with sub hit vox getting lost in guitar in 1st little bridge part after sub drop

3 mi problema absolutamente

4 is kick a little too metal? great sound like old days of "tape the credit card where the beater hits". it fades in and out sub drop almost there just a little quiet?


5 verb on bk vox too loud? or just bk vox themselves too loud? NIce sub drop, not to loud but missing that big growl? snares are nice throgh out


6 kick is nice and low but still has nice little beater hit coming through
Gtr is reallly nice where you added in extra fx. must be a gtr player that mixed this one good sub hit bass gets buried a little bit nice vox fx on pressure bldng part
Guitars might be covering bass gtr just a little? or bass needs a little harmonics boost?

7 kick muffled but drums still nice like the snare verb nice bk vox delay vor vox could be at tempo, seemed like the feedback was a little high? unless you did that on purpose in which case awesome for taking the risk and steppin out of the box.


8 sub hit barely there great guitar sound but might be covering up other parts of perc and bass? bk vox just a little quiet? might just be me

9 nice change to vox at Pressure bldng up

10 nice job on sub hit Something is building up in lower mids? is it the Vox verb? or low mids on snare? Kick verb i think is what I'm hearing. could work if it could be massaged into place a bit more.

11 nice punch in the mix right at begining vox up front, nice guitars. snare is a little quiet at parts seems to fade in and out a bit. No sub hit..cymbals missing from stereo spread. nice Filter effect on vox, I like the risky stuff.

12 got the sub drop just right nice snare coming through with good punch. cymbals seem quiet at first, but they do work in the mix. nice fresh approach vox at pressure bldng. Great choice for a bit of a breakdown. helps song pick up and build for the end.


13 I hear a delay on vox.. nice idea seems like that or a verb is building up a bit.
Love the vox mix w/bk vox on the pressure blding part

[Dex]

Sorry I didn't post more about your mix. I listened to them in random order and yours was one of the ones I wrote my comments about before I decided to comment section by section.

If you want to post your mix with non-reaper plugs I'll listen to it. You could also try posting it on the MT forums but it seems like there aren't a lot of people giving feedback on mixes there.

I went back and listened to your submission and you're right, it's a lot better with a significant high end boost. I'm not a fan of the snare sound you settled on. It sounds too boxy for me and can be fixed with EQ. I thought you did a great job with your vocal effects from 1:30-1:45, during the pressure building up part, and during the break right before the final chorus. Your choruses hit well too. Your final chorus handled the strings well and in an interesting way.

As for not getting any comments on the sub drop, first of all not everyone is listening for the same things when evaluating the mix and also maybe not everyone has a listening environment that goes down to 20 Hz. I thought yours was alright but too loud. It's a little startling when it hits. Also look at the waveform you submitted - you can easily see where the sub drop is, a hint that maybe it's standing out too much.

[Not_Here]

for sure on the sub hit - I agree after going back and giving look after the last night rush to submit.

It hit hard yes... that was my goal. I doubled that track and the 2nd I pitched an octave up. The hit was the high transient and no transient from low sample, and as it faded the octave higher blended in to give it more of that slide down the neck effect. Stole that idea from this song and I tried to make it so that it would still be heard on systems without the sub feq's... it kinda worked... but as you correctly noticed I was a bit "hot" on that level.. as you said... "maybe that's a hint" you had me fallin off the chair with that one... good one...

I said I was surprised how many people ignored the sub hit - but I wasn't ( poorly stated is why) trying to make it about my mix, but in general that there seemed to be more mixes where the sub hit was skipped altogether. I could have worded that a little better.

The snare and I were doing battle... it shows. on my current mix I used the OH and ROOM for my drums, I used the Kick and SNare tracks as a trigger for ducking the Bass a bit, and as a send only to a snare REV.
sounds a bit better

In that mix I used the extra snare tracks to build up ( volume envelopes) that Chorus bit and for added energy during the harder parts... seems to have worked ok, but as you say the sound was not as even as I wanted.

I did struggle a bit with her main vox a bit eq-wise but I'm still learing when it comes to female vox.

I have another song I mixed posted in the Music/Collab forum, a couple persons have seen it there and on some cross posts on other forums. It's definitely NOT the same style and I used about 65% aftermarket plugs and 35% stock plugs. It turned out pretty well, surprised myself.

I'll post Aug song there as soon as I can squeak in a few more tweaks and dead unicorn dust. Because work.... meh

And do you play guitar? Was I right in assuming a guitar player was mixing those guitars on your submission?

Now this new song for Sept... DAMMIT! stock plugs? ::::::shaking head::::

Thanks Sir for your time and posting back... I genuinely appreciate it..
~ you alright....


***** COOL POST ALERT!!!!******

Check out this guys efforts with some JS PLUGS !

[kgarello]

Originally Posted by Not_Here

f

Now this new song for Sept... DAMMIT! stock plugs? ::::::shaking head::::

Was there a thread started for September? I've been on the lookout, but didn't see one.

Ken

[G-Sun]

Where are the submittet masters?

[DaveKeehl]

Originally Posted by G-Sun

Where are the submittet masters?

They are still on the website

[Not_Here]

Originally Posted by kgarello

Was there a thread started for September? I've been on the lookout, but didn't see one.

Ken

Right?! I been lookin too...

I was just on a roll

[DaveKeehl]

Jeez what’s happening to me? I’m constantly late! Creating it right now!

[Dex]

Originally Posted by Not_Here

I doubled that track and the 2nd I pitched an octave up. The hit was the high transient and no transient from low sample, and as it faded the octave higher blended in to give it more of that slide down the neck effect. Stole that idea from this song and I tried to make it so that it would still be heard on systems without the sub feq's...

Neat, cool technique.

I said I was surprised how many people ignored the sub hit - but I wasn't ( poorly stated is why) trying to make it about my mix, but in general that there seemed to be more mixes where the sub hit was skipped altogether. I could have worded that a little better.

Ah, gotcha. I kept it in but tried to make it subtle, where it can be heard if you're paying attention but it doesn't knock you over. I hope that's how it came across.

And do you play guitar? Was I right in assuming a guitar player was mixing those guitars on your submission?

Drums actually, although I dabble on guitar and I've spent a long time trying to figure out how to mix distorted guitars well. (Most of that time was spent banging my head against the wall with techniques that didn't work.)

[DaveKeehl]

new thread created!

[Not_Here]

Originally Posted by DaveKeehl

new thread created!

....And there was much rejoicing....

Time to go over there (☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞

[DaveKeehl]

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Not_Here]

Originally Posted by DaveKeehl

Jeez what’s happening to me? I’m constantly late! Creating it right now!

You're a Dave, late doesn't apply. No worries.....

[Not_Here]

Originally Posted by Dex

Neat, cool technique.



Ah, gotcha. I kept it in but tried to make it subtle, where it can be heard if you're paying attention but it doesn't knock you over. I hope that's how it came across.



Drums actually, although I dabble on guitar and I've spent a long time trying to figure out how to mix distorted guitars well. (Most of that time was spent banging my head against the wall with techniques that didn't work.)

I think you nailed your sub hit just fine. You got it to sit just right. Mission accomplished.

You doin fine in the guitar dept. you had a sound that I would have been quite satisfied with
If I had dialed it in on a rig and been playing.


Jumpin over to other thread..

[Dex]

Thanks

As far as this goes, by the way,

will there ever be a really fantastic radio ready mix of this song?

I hope this is not too egotistical, but after stepping away from this song for over a week and then sampling all the mixes here again and several (but not all) of the ones on the MT forums, I think my mix is the best one I've heard and is the closest to radio ready. I didn't vote for myself because I think that's tacky (and also because I don't really care whether I win or lose - I'm here to learn), but it's honestly how I feel. That's why I'm a little annoyed that the feedback has been so thin this month - I think I did a really good job, but I don't know for sure!

I think if anything my mix could use a small stereo narrowing and a small vocal boost to help with mono compatibility, but other than that I think it sounds really good and quite close to the commercial tracks I referenced, quality-wise. I know my listening environments aren't great so I don't know if it's translating well to you guys, but I've checked my mix in several locations and I think it holds up pretty well.

[aftercutrecords]

Hey man, just a couple things. I master things for people, and mix crits are my specialty. So I figured, I'd do you a solid here.
For one thing, the vocals are simultaneously very loud and very verby. The reverb in particular seems to be a little abrasive.
For another, everything overall is lacking between 100hz and 500hz most of the time.
The brightness of all the instruments can actually come up a little bit, with the exception of the overheads. They were a little whack.
The drums have a plasticky thing going on at 4k.
You actually have plenty of room between 1k and 2k. The sibalance of the vocals is also a little much. Other than that, you have a really good ear for this stuff. I just think that you could work on flattening things out a little bit and filling those spectral holes, while taming the overheads.
I look forward to see what you bring next month!

[G-Sun]

Originally Posted by DaveKeehl

They are still on the website

Ok,
I used 3min trying to find it, and couldn't.
Maybe I'll try again, maybe not

Edit: Found it now. Wasn't there yesterday.

[kgarello]

I often wish we could get a small panel of non-biased judges to vote.

I have so much time invested to make it how I want it, that it is difficult to be objective when I vote for others.

I did not vote for myself on this mix.

Btw - did anyone come across the CLA mix of this on cambridge-mt?
I got myself in trouble trying to match it.

There are a couple of other professional sounding mixes on the site.

[Dex]

Originally Posted by aftercutrecords

Hey man, just a couple things. I master things for people, and mix crits are my specialty. So I figured, I'd do you a solid here.
For one thing, the vocals are simultaneously very loud and very verby. The reverb in particular seems to be a little abrasive.
For another, everything overall is lacking between 100hz and 500hz most of the time.
The brightness of all the instruments can actually come up a little bit, with the exception of the overheads. They were a little whack.
The drums have a plasticky thing going on at 4k.
You actually have plenty of room between 1k and 2k. The sibalance of the vocals is also a little much. Other than that, you have a really good ear for this stuff. I just think that you could work on flattening things out a little bit and filling those spectral holes, while taming the overheads.
I look forward to see what you bring next month!

Hey, that's awesome! Thank you so much for taking the time to write that up. Just to be sure, you're talking about mix #6, right? (Same as the one here: http://discussion.cambridge-mt.com/s....php?tid=24297 ) The only reason I ask is because the lead vocals only have a 2-tap delay on them, no reverb whatsoever. I can hear that they sound a little phasey though with the delay times I chose. I probably should have EQ'd the wet signal too, which I didn't do. Doh!

By the way in case you're curious my main reference mix for my work was this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzDabVRab9c

[Not_Here]

Originally Posted by kgarello

I often wish we could get a small panel of non-biased judges to vote.

I have so much time invested to make it how I want it, that it is difficult to be objective when I vote for others.

I did not vote for myself on this mix.

Btw - did anyone come across the CLA mix of this on cambridge-mt?
I got myself in trouble trying to match it.

There are a couple of other professional sounding mixes on the site.

For sure found the other mixes of the song. I like to hear other ideas, and also listen for other similarities in the mixes. But I usually end up doing my own thing anyways.

Sometimes IMHO it seems this is more a contest about what we can do with stock plugs, rather than a pure mix contest with an independent judging panel.
Either way, I learn something I suppose.

[DaveKeehl]

ID 01: Drums too quite (I can't hear the kick and the snare should really drive the listener) and so are the guitars. The bass is too loud and the vocals are too upfront compared to the rest of the instruments. The vocals have still a bit too much sibilances.

ID 02: Nice energy. The vocals are maybe a bit quite. The kick could be louder and the snare is a bit dark.

ID 03: Very dark mix. It's like if the speakers are covered with a cloth. The balance is there though.

ID 04: Good energy but has too much high frequencies that stick out. I didn't like the distortion effect on the vocals. The guitars are a bit covered. The kick is too clicky sounding imo.

ID 05: Good energy. Guitars could have a bit more bite. Vocals are a bit weird (too much reverb). Drums are a bit quite, especially the kick.

ID 06: Good energy. The kick is too quite and way too clicky. The guitars could have a bit more bit. The bass guitar and vocals could also be more upfront.

ID 07: Very dark mix. The vocals are too quite compared to the rest of the mix. The snare has a good sound, it sounds like it's halfway finished though. Some panned guitars track are really difficult to hear.

ID 08: Good energy. A bit harsh sounding. The balance is pretty good though. Again, guitars lack a bit of bite. The snare doesn't stick out and the kick is too quite.

ID 09: Nice mix. Nice snare. Nice balance. The kick is too quite. Nothing else to say.

ID 10: Very dark mix. I like the snare though. "Wrong" effects on the vocals. Guitars are buried. I can't hear the bass.

ID 11: Good energy. The snare sounds awesome. The balance is also decent (a bit more kick?). It sounds a bit harsh in general.

ID 12: It sounds a bit muffled. Vocals are a bit low and could have been more de-essed. The kick is too quite. Nice snare sound. Guitars sound like they are in mono (am I right?). The backing vocals are also too quite.

ID 13: It sounds very muffled and vocals' effects are a bit out of place. The balance is almost decent though

[pim van dorst]

i like the new song from grass a lot already made a remix mash up from it..

the original sounds good to joy to mix greetings from holland

[DaveKeehl]

Wrong thread? 😆