Old 11-21-2006, 10:32 AM   #1
Jae.Thomas
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Default a routing challenge for you.

ok.

I have BFDALL inserted on track 1.

BFD ALL has 17 VSTi outputs.

1/2 - Overheads
3/4 - Room mics
5/6 - PZM mics
7 - kick in
8 - kick out
9 - snare top
10 - snare bottom
11 - hi hat
12 - low tom
13 - med tom
14 - high tom
15 - crash cymbal
16 - ride cymbal
17 - other cymbal

this is what i want to accomplish using reaper, and only reaper.

I want a track at the top to serve as the "master track" where all of these subsequent routings go to, and therefore it has the only send to master. I want to put my midi tracks in here as well, for BFD. I dont want ANY of the individual channels going here exclusively. I simply want this for master control of BFD.

I want to next have 3 more stereo tracks for
overheads (which would make it track 2)
room (track 3)
pzms (track 4)

after that, i want to bus them to

wet mix (track 5)

to raise and lower the sound of all of the tracks together, or process them together if i wish. this would send to the master BFD track.

after that, i want 2 mono tracks

kick in (track 6)

kick out (track 7)

(would be nice if these were collapsable cause it wouldnt be too often i would need to process the in or out of a kick)

I want to sum them to mono (most sequencers, like reaper, have a tendency to put the kick in on the left and the kick out on the right, which of course screws alot up, so...) and send them to a bus

kick bus (track 8)

the same for snare top and bottom.

snare top (track 9)

snare bottom (track 10)

( I would also want these to be collapsable because i wouldnt always want to say, put compression on the bottom snare mic)

I would like these to sum to mono (most sequencers, like reaper, have a tendency to put the snare top on the left and the snare bottom on the right, which of course screws alot up, so...) and send to

snare bus (track 11)

then a single track for hihat (track 12)

for the toms, i would like to combine channels 12-14 into one track for toms. This would probably require sending each tom to a track

low tom (track 13)
med tom (track 14)
high tom (track 15)

would be nice to have these tracks collapsable.

and then bussing those to

toms bus (track 16).

same thing with the cymbals.

crash cymbal (track 17)
ride cymbal (track 18)
other cymbal (track 19)

and then bussed to

cymbals bus (track 20).

after this i would like all of the bussed tracks (8,11,12,16 and 20) to send to a "DRY MIX" track (track 21).

then this one would send to the master BFD track.


of course, it would be very nice if this whole thing could just fold up underneath the BFD master track (track 1)...


if ANYONE understands what i just wrote, any help would be appreciated. I dont want to have to use an external host for routing. And reapers routing, although flexible, leaves a bit to be desired in this situation.



Track 1: BFD master
Track 2: Overheads (sent to wet mix track 5)
Track 3: Room (sent to wet mix track 5)
Track 4: PZM (sent to wet mix track 5)
Track 5: Wet Mix (sent to BFD master)
Track 6: kick in (sent to kick bus track 8 as mono, centered)
Track 7: kick out (sent to kick bus track 8 as mono, centered)
Track 8: kick bus (sent to "Dry mix" track 21)
Track 9: snare top (sent to snare bus track 11 as mono, centered)
Track10: snare bottom (sent to snare bus track 11 as mono, etc)
Track11: snare bus (sent to "dry mix" track 21)
Track12: hi hat (sent to "dry mix" track 21)
Track13: low tom (sent to tom bus track 16)
Track14: med tom (sent to tom bus track 16)
Track15: high tom (sent to tom bus track 16)
Track16: tom bus (sent to "Dry mix" track 21)
Track17: crash cymbal (sent to cymbal bus track 20)
Track18: ride cymbal (sent to cymbal bus track 20)
Track19: other cymbal (sent to cymbal bus track 20)
Track20: cymbal bus (sent to dry mix track 21)
track21: dry mix (sent to master BFD track)

I used this routing in FL studio all the time and it kicked butt for ultimate control of every aspect of the drum sound

Last edited by Jae.Thomas; 11-21-2006 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 11-26-2006, 09:47 AM   #2
Amether
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I think working out what the crux of the issue is, (ignoring the problem free areas and the same problem repeated) might be more likely to receive a response than what I think must be the longest question of all time.

From reading what you said, everything seems pretty straightforward and easily achievable in REAPER, alone, with perhaps a need for a JS plugin maybe perhaps, but then I'm probably missing something. Not being able to see the wood for the trees, as they say.
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Old 11-26-2006, 10:14 AM   #3
todd24
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I dont see why this cant be done in Reaper. Folders in folders would make it a breeze though.
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Old 11-28-2006, 12:19 AM   #4
Bogi
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I believe the problem is that you can't have BFD loaded in the BFD master track... BFD and its midi has to be loaded on its own track.

That's basically how Cubase works too. You create a midi track for the BFD. You then insert BFD into the VSTi rack which would then automatically create the 17 audio tracks. You would then create group channels and route the audio channels accordingly.

It would be much nicer if Reaper saw each output from the VSTi's as a true output and not channel within a track.
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Old 11-28-2006, 12:30 AM   #5
malcolmj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogi View Post
It would be much nicer if Reaper saw each output from the VSTi's as a true output and not channel within a track.
It would be great to have the option of routing the multiple outs from a VSTi automatically to Tracks. It would definitely simplify the current system, but I wouldn't want to lose the option of the current routing for the other.

Cheers,

Malcolm.
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Old 12-01-2006, 06:39 AM   #6
Jae.Thomas
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all of these points are vaild. I hope reaper has some updated routing in it (read: simpler and more effective)doe vsti and still retains the older, complex stuff for other stuff
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Old 12-01-2006, 08:48 AM   #7
Jae.Thomas
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Default works nicely in XT within reaper




but apply fx to new take creates delay.
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Old 12-02-2006, 10:50 AM   #8
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I was going to suggest using XT in Reaper for your routing. glad to see it works for you!
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Old 12-02-2006, 11:53 AM   #9
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Looks simple enough. If you're still interested in doing it with Reaper alone, I can't really give you a walk through as I don't have BFD but here's a quick rundown of how I'd do it:

Create eight tracks.
The top most will receive your wet mix from the third track.
The second down will be a parent track for all the drum tracks below.
The third will get the BFD plugin, your MIDI and send.
The fourth will get the kick channels.
The fifth will get the snare.
Thre sixth will get the HH.
The seventh will get the toms.
The eight will get the cymbals.

You control the wet mix from the single track, and the dry mix from the parent (which you can collapse) and every BFD output get it's own output track and FX chain. No need for eXT (unless you want to do your MIDI in there, of course). Once done, save it as a template so you don't have to do it again for every new projects (I have a similar setup but using DR008, not BFD). As to level concern when panning, you know you can define the panning law for every tracks, yes? Also, all those tracks can have their own color, so I suggest changing the color of the drum tracks for instant identification within a busy mix.

Last edited by bullshark; 12-02-2006 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 12-03-2006, 09:49 PM   #10
Jae.Thomas
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well, i answered my question here:

http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthre...2755#post32755

screenshot there. I posted a new thread to bring attention to the BFD users in the house
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Old 12-03-2006, 09:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post

I do admit i really like this spiderwebbed view.
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Old 12-03-2006, 10:05 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
well, i answered my question here:

http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthre...2755#post32755

screenshot there. I posted a new thread to bring attention to the BFD users in the house
I fail to see what it offers more than the suggestion I proposed, apart from the fact that it's awfully complicated for...well, I don't see the point at all to all that complexity as it doesn't seem to offer anything new mix wise; and you can't even collapse the whole shebang as with my suggestion (which is actually what I use), you wouldn't need to have more than 2 tracks opened in track view and still control every single part of the kit separately.

But hey, to each his own and I'm glad Reaper offers that capability.
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Old 12-03-2006, 11:09 PM   #13
Jae.Thomas
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well i like to be able to process certain cymbals and the snare top and bottom seperately... not sure if your config would do that.
thanks for your help though
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Old 12-03-2006, 11:40 PM   #14
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Yeah, but if you'd used only one folder track for the dry drums and used color coding instead of folders organisational scheme, you'd end up with the same control BUT you could collapse the whole shebang in track view AND you could "freeze" the lot by selecting the master folder track, selecting "render...", untick "master mix" but tick "render stems" and tick "add item to new track". Do the same for your wet mix, mute the wet and dry folder and you end up with two audio tracks instead of the CPU munching MIDI contraption.

Really take longer to write and read than to do, takes 2, maybe 3 seconds once you've done it once. The way you have it now, I'm baffled about how you're going to "freeze" or "bounce" the thing. But please do post if you have a solution for that as I'm curious.

Last edited by bullshark; 12-03-2006 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 12-04-2006, 06:52 AM   #15
Jae.Thomas
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Default youre right


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