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Old 07-16-2007, 07:19 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandruff View Post
what does the normalize dialog display (gain) on your machine for the saw-wave when normalizing it?
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Originally Posted by LOSER View Post
First off you got a different file than what you send "Saw Up A1 55Hz-imported-2.wav", but I assume it is identical. So I got +1.84dB Normalization gain here, while you got +3.76dB, which is likely the problem (hmm.. almost exactly twice what I got), anyway can you try to rebuild all peaks and see what that does also try it with the .wav that you originally posted.
And yeah I find this odd too (added for the sake of 10 characters).

EDIT: Yeah rechecked and its +1.84dB which will give me a peak of -0.1dB.
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Old 07-16-2007, 07:57 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOSER View Post
And yeah I find this odd too (added for the sake of 10 characters).

EDIT: Yeah rechecked and its +1.84dB which will give me a peak of -0.1dB.
Saw Up A1 55Hz-imported-2.wav is/was a duplicate (100% the same file).

but: i just found the reason, why it doesn't work here!

set your peak-resolution to "480" in the preferences ...


with the default "300" it works fine.


but this drumloop-example http://www.cockos.com/forum/showpost...3&postcount=42 has the problems also with the 300 setting.

Last edited by Dstruct; 07-16-2007 at 08:01 AM.
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Old 07-16-2007, 08:00 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandruff View Post
You see three items. Last two items are just resized duplicates of the first item.

Go and normalize each item and watch the level-meters. I've added my results in the item-names. All items don't get normalized properly here.
Yes, this is the same problem I am often having! The meters also peak here at the same values as you have given on the item names.

-X
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Old 07-16-2007, 08:07 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandruff View Post
Saw Up A1 55Hz-imported-2.wav is/was a duplicate (100% the same file).

but: i just found the reason, why it doesn't work here!

set your peak-resolution to "480" in the preferences ...


with the default "300" it works fine.


but this drumloop-example http://www.cockos.com/forum/showpost...3&postcount=42 has the problems also with the 300 setting.
Ahh so it is kind'a depending on / related to the peak cache resolution ... I think this will help Justin to track the problem down.
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Old 07-16-2007, 03:15 PM   #45
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Peak cache file - This sounds very plausible given that before normalization the wav file playback peaks at the same level in all my programs. Only after attempted normalizing is there something wrong (just in Reaper).

Do other programs have a render / playback peak resolution option like Reaper's? Can anyone enlighten me as to how other programs' analysis of peaks differs from Reaper's (and how it makes the process more accurate)?
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Old 07-16-2007, 10:07 PM   #46
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regarding this whole issue,


justin: what about "oversampled" normalization to avoid intersample peaks/overs (not strictly normalizing to 0.0dB maximum)?

this would be really stunning and unique (as no other host already supports such thing).
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:42 AM   #47
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So, is there an affirmation from Justin that peak resolution cache files were the problem? Or is there another issue? Is a fix going to appear any time soon?
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Old 07-19-2007, 05:42 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandruff View Post
Here a project with an example (drumloop) of this problem: http://www.outburst-audio.com/misc/normalize.zip (400kB)


You see three items. Last two items are just resized duplicates of the first item.

Go and normalize each item and watch the level-meters. I've added my results in the item-names. All items don't get normalized properly here.
it's better in 1.877, but still not perfect!


results:
item 1 = +0.4dB normalized
item 2 = -0.1dB normalized (ok for me)
item 3 = +0.9dB normalized


FIXED (1.885)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandruff View Post
Here two files where the normalize function seem to fail: http://www.outburst-audio.com/misc/normalize-me.zip

Saw Up A1 55Hz.wav -> Reaper's meters read +1.9dB when normalized
Square A1 55Hz.wav -> Reaper's meters read +0.2dB when normalized
still not working correctly (same problem) in 1.877 with the peak-cache resolution set to 480 samples/sec!


FIXED (1.885)

Last edited by Dstruct; 08-15-2007 at 04:36 AM.
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Old 07-20-2007, 03:39 AM   #49
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so let me get this straight, you mentioning a problem, and then within days (under a week) when the 2 people involved in the product have a presentation to make on one of those days, who both happen to be sick during that time, and who are traveling, preparing for this presentation, release an update within DAYS, to TRY to fix the problem....

thats not goood enough?

Im sure Justin will get to the bottom of this, have faith. Realize since we have had normalization, this is the first complaint regarding it, and it was jumped on immediately by Justin/Christophe...

im sure the problem will be fixed. Until then, workaround it. Were talking days, not months like other sequencers.
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Old 07-20-2007, 03:47 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill
Were talking days, not months like other sequencers.
http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8912 (months, just one example)
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Old 07-20-2007, 04:35 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandruff View Post
To quote from that post of yours: "how many bugs/issues did i report today? i don't know. here another one: [...]"

Maybe exactly THIS is the problem.
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Old 07-20-2007, 04:51 AM   #52
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Well I am a developer working for the largest software company in the world (thats not a brag, just a hit and run for relevance) and I'm telling you guys that aside from bugs, moans and groans, the boys have delivered a stellar product, and patience will go a long way...

Or they could start releasing Service Packs once every 2 years? :P
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Old 07-20-2007, 07:18 AM   #53
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I'm happy that the normalization almost works now!

I'm still wondering that maybe Reaper is trying to do it "too efficiently", based on pre-calculated data, that maybe sometimes too inaccurate for such a purpose. Why not have an option to calculate the normalization gain coefficient fully from a sample-by-sample calculation taken from the actual audio sample data from disk...? After all, that's how pretty much every other application seems to do it...It takes some more time to analyze the audio fully, but at least the peak level within the file/item might be detected more reliably that way.

-X
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Old 07-20-2007, 11:41 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenakios View Post
I'm happy that the normalization almost works now!

I'm still wondering that maybe Reaper is trying to do it "too efficiently", based on pre-calculated data, that maybe sometimes too inaccurate for such a purpose. Why not have an option to calculate the normalization gain coefficient fully from a sample-by-sample calculation taken from the actual audio sample data from disk...? After all, that's how pretty much every other application seems to do it...It takes some more time to analyze the audio fully, but at least the peak level within the file/item might be detected more reliably that way.

-X
It seems as if REAPER already does this, while building the peak file (to get the maximum loudness/peak/sample in the file), but I could be wrong (at least the peak file (and analysis) is needed to apply normalization.
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:01 AM   #55
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http://www.cockos.com/forum/showpost...7&postcount=51

justin? any clever solutions around the corner to get this thread "closed"?
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Old 07-26-2007, 06:21 PM   #56
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I think normalisation is useless, and I never do it, but if at least it could be done to always be under 0.0 that'd be fine. who gives a f about 0.5db up or down, just not beyond 0.0.
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