Old 02-21-2016, 03:19 PM   #361
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Thanks for checking, I need to add that if the note is very small and you get an 1/8th beam handle, the length adjustments are absolute. So one pixel to the right turns a 1/128th note to a 1/8th+ note.
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Old 02-21-2016, 03:27 PM   #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clepsydrae View Post
IMO the true measure of a score editor is how easy it is to fix things when you don't enter the notes perfectly the first time: inserting time in between notes, adjusting values and rests and ties, moving things around, inserting a measure with a different time signature than the others, ensuring that things don't go haywire when notes temporarily overlap each other, etc.

I personally support any and all energies toward that end. :-)
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Originally Posted by G-Sun View Post
btw: Really looking forward to the official release,
as I'm in a composing-phase of a song.
Reaper seems much better than Musescore in adjusting notes across bars and moving things around a little.
The entry/edit method in REAPER is already heaps better than MuseScore, for the basic note pitch and duration.

Thanks to the 'hybrid score' activists over the years

Also, I'd like to say at this point, that I'm NOT for any floaty note cursor. The way it is now you get 1) audition of your note by clicking on a space/line. 2) instantly draggable note pitch/postion if you WERE off by a pixel or two.

So I for one would really be happy not to have that really quite annoying floating note cursor that MuseScore has, and which I would happily turn off. (As an option, of course...)
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Old 02-21-2016, 03:27 PM   #363
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Note and rest placements are looking MUCH better in 5.20pre8 (i.e. bugs 31 and 32 have been fixed) - thanks for your hard work, Schwa.

Some refinements still needed:

1. Clefs: These are squashed up to the leftmost barline - there should be a small space between the barline and the clef.

2. Key signatures: accidentals should not touch or collide.

Here's a visual comparison to illustrate:

MuseScore (v2.0.2):


Reaper (v5.2pre8):
Attached Images
File Type: png MuseScore clefs and key sigs with Bravura.png (26.2 KB, 866 views)
File Type: jpg Reaper clefs and key sigs.jpg (18.0 KB, 795 views)

Last edited by Xasman; 02-22-2016 at 02:33 AM.
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Old 02-21-2016, 03:48 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by reddiesel41264 View Post
@pccartwright

These FRs have now been implemented: #23, #25, #33

FR #7 and FR #27 are essentially the same I think - it's the second #27 btw (I just realised there's an error in the numbering)
woops. fixed.
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Old 02-21-2016, 04:25 PM   #365
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Issues with dynamics positioning:

1. Dynamics should default to being centered below the note to which they are attached (at present, they are left-aligned by default to a point below the centre of the note - effectively making the dynamic position slightly to the right of the note). Dynamic markings can appear to the left but no dynamic marking should ever appear to the right of the note to which it applies (because the performer needs to see, and take note of, the dynamic marking *before* playing the note).

2. Free dynamic positioning helps, but it's fiddly to centre dynamics this way. Most importantly though, it seems currently impossible to position a dynamic marking to the left of the default position in the first note in a bar, e.g.:

Attached Images
File Type: gif Dynamics move-to-left problem.gif (20.6 KB, 738 views)

Last edited by Xasman; 02-21-2016 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 02-21-2016, 08:45 PM   #366
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I haven't tried moving dynamics left-right yet. Do they respond to grid snap? That would be the ideal state as a note could have multiple dynamics (whole note cresc from piano to forte, etc.).
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Old 02-22-2016, 01:59 AM   #367
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I haven't tried moving dynamics left-right yet. Do they respond to grid snap? That would be the ideal state as a note could have multiple dynamics (whole note cresc from piano to forte, etc.).
Yes, dynamics snap to grid by default - shift+drag overrides. Either way though, it's not currently possible to drag further left than the first snap point in the bar. Come to think of it, an option to change alignment of the dynamic markings would be useful...

e.g. where | is the snap point (i.e. the point on the dynamic marking which snaps to the grid):

either

|pp (left-aligned - current and least useful)

or

p|p (centre-aligned - should probably be default)

or

pp| (right-aligned - also useful)

In fact, we probably need only the centre- and right-aligned modes...

Last edited by Xasman; 02-22-2016 at 03:36 AM.
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Old 02-22-2016, 02:15 AM   #368
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True, dynamic markings should be able to be moved left of the first grid line.

ALSO - Can we have play cursor and edit cursor separate, as in the piano roll editor?

Currently edit cursor position can't be set by mouse click without causing the play cursor to jump to that position.

Will this come with some Notation editor mouse modifiers?

I can set edit position during playback via certain actions that I have mapped, but this issue (of unwanted seeking) bugged me for years in the piano editor before some other people made enough noise about it.
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Old 02-22-2016, 03:37 AM   #369
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Default Feature request

Flip Stems (up or down): Since stem direction sometimes depends on context, the ability to flip stems (as per the "x" command in MuseScore) and tuplet markings/brakets manually, *regardless* of voice or MIDI channel would be very useful.
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Old 02-22-2016, 05:35 AM   #370
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Will Reaper have notation for drum kits? That would be awesome!
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Old 02-22-2016, 05:37 AM   #371
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Will Reaper have notation for drum kits? That would be awesome!

Please offer up any suggestions for percussion notation.
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Old 02-22-2016, 05:57 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Please offer up any suggestions for percussion notation.
We should be able to choose the symbol for each notehead, rather than changing the note shape globally per notation editor instance. We should also be able to have drum maps that convert standard drum notation to actual MIDI notes that are supposed to be played.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percussion_notation


Ideally the drum map would contain both the MIDI note to notation position correlation as well as the notehead type for each entry.

Last edited by EvilDragon; 02-22-2016 at 06:07 AM.
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Old 02-22-2016, 08:00 AM   #373
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Default Staff Folder FR

Hello!
Please add an option to display more than one track on one musical staff!

It would be natural to locate the control of it in the Track List area. A button "Media items on this track are (not) listed" is not used for the notation editor - so let it work similar with folders in the track panel in three positions:
1 This is first track in a staff folder (down arrow)
2 This track is not in staff folder (right arrow)
3 This is last track in a staff folder (up arrow)

Let this tool be an option for the voice separation as well.

Please! I could not find this feature in any daw. But I need it so very much especially for my huge orchestra scores.

Thanks!
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Old 02-22-2016, 08:20 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
We should be able to choose the symbol for each notehead, rather than changing the note shape globally per notation editor instance. We should also be able to have drum maps that convert standard drum notation to actual MIDI notes that are supposed to be played.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percussion_notation


Ideally the drum map would contain both the MIDI note to notation position correlation as well as the notehead type for each entry.

Following-on from what ED has said, I think we need to start a percussion-notation guide thread or document here in the forum as percussion notation is different to melodic notation. We can provide sensible ideas and information from, and using this, that will help Schwa write a decent percussion mapping editor. There seem to be plenty of notation users here to home in on a manual of "good practice" and notation explanation.

Ultimately this guide and some percussion mapping presets should help any user display their drum/percussion MIDI as dots. Maybe the guide can be accessed through the Action list or help menu, and/or downloaded as PDF or similar at a later, more mature stage in the notation editor's development.

Essentially, the mapping should consist of note to line and note-head rows, but some (eg Hi-hat trigger notes) need to consider CC values to determine the notes' dot status. I'm not enough of an expert here to contribute on other "notation punctuation" and how might relate to percussion MIDI, but I'm sure other users will add to the picture.


Edit: I hadn't considered what MM&U has added, with drum rudiments and their shorthand symbold. Perhaps the guide might be more of a good idea, as many users who might be use normal notation would not be so familiar with the convention for drums. That wiki page is certinly a good start!




>

Last edited by planetnine; 02-22-2016 at 08:27 AM.
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Old 02-22-2016, 09:10 AM   #375
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The one alteration we will have to look at pertaining to the notation view being locked to the midi editor is Percussion Notation. It should line up with GM General Midi.

Otherwise when you put the notes in the notation view it won't trigger anything. It need to trigger the appropriate notes. Addictive drums and too track have settings for GM.

This link between the notes on the percussion line and the GM is VERY important.

http://www.finalemusic.com/UserManua...ussionMaps.htm
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Old 02-22-2016, 09:12 AM   #376
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Originally Posted by memyselfandus View Post
The one alteration we will have to look at pertaining to the notation view being locked to the midi editor is Percussion Notation. It should line up with GM General Midi.

Otherwise when you put the notes in the notation view it won't trigger anything. It need to trigger the appropriate notes. Addictive drums and too track have settings for GM.

This link between the notes on the percussion line and the GM is VERY important.
It should be customisable because not all drum sample libraries follow the GM standard, and the GM standard is limited
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Old 02-22-2016, 09:29 AM   #377
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GM General MIDI Map

https://i.imgur.com/iuzS2Rt.jpg



Orchestral Percusion GM Map


https://i.imgur.com/4GU0laQ.jpg



Matching Percusion GM Map

https://i.imgur.com/eX18ewO.jpg
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Old 02-22-2016, 09:33 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by reddiesel41264 View Post
It should be customisable because not all drum sample libraries follow the GM standard, and the GM standard is limited
Agreed. Loading customized note names text file could determine what notes are triggered in percussion view? No idea how. Hopefully GM and note names file by default option in prefs.
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Old 02-22-2016, 09:36 AM   #379
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Being able to paste in all the standard rudiments and flam stuff would be killer!!!
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Old 02-22-2016, 09:49 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by memyselfandus View Post
This link between the notes on the percussion line and the GM is VERY important.

http://www.finalemusic.com/UserManua...ussionMaps.htm
That GM table is more than the standard GM list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_MIDI
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...ardDrumMap.gif

[Hmm, that GM gif was, I think, one I did some time ago, complete with one of my typos.]
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Old 02-22-2016, 09:54 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
That GM table is more than the standard GM list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_MIDI
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...ardDrumMap.gif

[Hmm, that GM gif was, I think, one I did some time ago, complete with one of my typos.]
Cool!
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Old 02-22-2016, 10:31 AM   #382
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Please offer up any suggestions for percussion notation.
Heya Schwa - this is the resources page for the 4th year seminar I'm taking right now on MIDI drums and percussion. The links are worth checking out.

https://drumperc.wordpress.com/resources/

The "broad brush strokes" outline is that for drumkit, instruments played by the foot (kick, foot-closed hi hat) are notated/beamed stems down, instruments played by the hand are notated/beamed stems up (there are some exceptions when this would decrease clarity rather than increase it). It's a two-voice system (foot/hand) and both voices should make musical sense and be musically complete when viewed separately. "Shell" drums like toms and kick are notated with regular note heads; cymbals are notated with other note heads as indicated etc.

Last edited by kerryg; 02-22-2016 at 01:46 PM.
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Old 02-22-2016, 11:40 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by kerryg View Post
Heya Schwa - this is the resources page for the 4th year seminar I'm taking right now on MIDI drums and percussion. The links are worth checking out.

https://drumperc.wordpress.com/resources/

The "broad brush strokes" outline is that instruments played by the foot (kick, foot-closed hi hat) are notated/beamed stems down, instruments played by the hand are notated/beamed stems up (there are some exceptions when this would decrease clarity rather than increase it). It's a two-voice system (foot/hand) and both voices should make musical sense and be musically complete when viewed separately. "Shell" drums like toms and kick are notated with regular note heads; cymbals are notated with other note heads as indicated etc.
Nice!
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Old 02-22-2016, 11:59 AM   #384
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Single line percussion or staff line PLEASE



With rhythm slash option too

For rhythms!
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Old 02-22-2016, 12:15 PM   #385
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Single line percussion or staff line PLEASE



With rhythm slash option too

For rhythms!
Slash notation will be particularly important once chord name events are implemented. Sibelius handles this by letting you insert slash heads on notes (with and without beams); Logic handles this by allowing you to convert rests to slashes (a bit less controllable).
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Old 02-22-2016, 01:15 PM   #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Please offer up any suggestions for percussion notation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
We should be able to choose the symbol for each notehead, rather than changing the note shape globally per notation editor instance. We should also be able to have drum maps that convert standard drum notation to actual MIDI notes that are supposed to be played.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percussion_notation


Ideally the drum map would contain both the MIDI note to notation position correlation as well as the notehead type for each entry.
What ED said!!!!
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Old 02-22-2016, 02:01 PM   #387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
We should be able to choose the symbol for each notehead, rather than changing the note shape globally per notation editor instance. We should also be able to have drum maps that convert standard drum notation to actual MIDI notes that are supposed to be played.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percussion_notation


Ideally the drum map would contain both the MIDI note to notation position correlation as well as the notehead type for each entry.
Spot on. We need to map note-numbers individually to both staff line and note-head symbol. Slash notation and repeat marks are also important if they can be implemented.

If you can, get a copy of the book mentioned in the wikipedia link - Norman Weinberg’s Guide To Standardized Drumset Notation (2002, ISBN 0-9664928-1-1).). That's the bible, not universally accepted but it's the closest thing we have to a standard.

If REAPER could do decent drum notation that would be awesome.
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Old 02-22-2016, 02:43 PM   #388
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Reaper 5 pre8 32bit, Windows 7 64bit. The same bug:
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Old 02-22-2016, 02:46 PM   #389
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Spot on. We need to map note-numbers individually to both staff line and note-head symbol. Slash notation and repeat marks are also important if they can be implemented.

If you can, get a copy of the book mentioned in the wikipedia link - Norman Weinberg’s Guide To Standardized Drumset Notation (2002, ISBN 0-9664928-1-1).). That's the bible, not universally accepted but it's the closest thing we have to a standard.

If REAPER could do decent drum notation that would be awesome.
Indeed. If that's too much or too late, then at least for drum kit, in the course outline link above there's a pretty comprehensive 13-page PDF and a short form drum key here that are pretty in line with authorities like the Percussive Arts Society.
https://drumperc.files.wordpress.com...itkeynt091.pdf
https://drumperc.files.wordpress.com.../notation1.pdf
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Old 02-22-2016, 03:22 PM   #390
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Reaper 5 pre8 32bit, Windows 7 64bit. The same bug:
It's not a bug that you can edit notes to be very far away from their staff, the bug would be if you can drag the note to somewhere that you can no longer grab it with the mouse.
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Old 02-22-2016, 03:29 PM   #391
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It's not a bug that you can edit notes to be very far away from their staff, the bug would be if you can drag the note to somewhere that you can no longer grab it with the mouse.
Nope. Is it normal that notes aren't in the same bar, but you see it like they are on the same?
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Old 02-22-2016, 03:33 PM   #392
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You're saying it's an issue of staff spacing/collision?
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Old 02-22-2016, 03:37 PM   #393
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We'll eventually add an octave notation to handle this, but for now, notes will be displayed even if they are very far from their staff, even if this means they are drawn over a different staff. The alternative would be to hide these notes, which wouldn't be good, at least as a default. Far-away notes can exist in the MIDI (recorded, edited elsewhere, etc) so you need to be able to edit them in the notation editor, at least by default.
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Old 02-22-2016, 03:44 PM   #394
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Well thanks for giving us the option to hide 'far from staff notes' anyway. It is very much appreciated!

When using ie VSL strings in the Kontakt 5 Library, and there are 4-5 keyswitches per instrument, you absolutely definitely do not want these shown on the notation.

Currently however for me to write a standard classical guitar part on one clef (treble -8) with Spicy VSTi the notation editor is not up to it, because the part can have 3 ledger lines and the hide action is set to two ledger lines. And spicy has some articulations that are keyswitched.

Last edited by hamish; 02-22-2016 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 02-22-2016, 03:58 PM   #395
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at least by default.
Ok, understand. Thank you. Btw, the bug with notes above the staff is still here
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Old 02-22-2016, 04:00 PM   #396
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Default Request: staff input method

Hello,

As for notation editor, Cakewalk sonar adopts a sort of filtering method, that is, one can usually drag & input staff notes diatonically. If you want input accidentals, you should drag staff while pushing right button. I think this method is very smart.
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Old 02-22-2016, 09:01 PM   #397
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Rhythm slashes

These


And these
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Old 02-22-2016, 09:12 PM   #398
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Custom symbols like this in notation or piano roll view would be incredible. Users could just add anything.

https://i.imgur.com/7zmG6Xs.jpg
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File Type: jpg image.jpg (29.3 KB, 167 views)
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Old 02-22-2016, 10:34 PM   #399
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Default a track is inside the staff folder

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaDim View Post
It would be natural to locate the control of it in the Track List area. A button "Media items on this track are (not) listed" is not used for the notation editor - so let it work similar with folders in the track panel in three positions:
1 This is first track in a staff folder (down arrow)
2 This track is not in staff folder (right arrow)
3 This is last track in a staff folder (up arrow)
I forgot to mention one more arrow position when a track is inside the staff folder (maybe an empty checkbox)
Thanks!
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Old 02-22-2016, 10:59 PM   #400
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Guitar tab would be great
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