Old 09-18-2019, 09:32 AM   #1
Neutronic
Human being with feelings
 
Neutronic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 402
Default v5.983+dev0918 - September 18 2019

v5.983+dev0918 - September 18 2019
+ ARA: do not inform plug-ins that samples are available if the source audio has been deleted or moved
+ ARA: improve loading projects with missing media
+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC

Neutronic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 09:46 AM   #2
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 23,883
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutronic View Post
+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC


It's in I/O dialog, just so everyone knows.



+/- 500 ms might not be enough. Please allow for typing in larger values. Right now if I type in 1000 ms, it is not remembered after reopening the I/O dialog. Or just extent the range of the knob to +/- 2000 ms, I'd say that should be enough. Thanks


Also the knob behaves weirdly. It hides the mouse cursor, but when releasing the mouse the cursor is NOT in the place where it was when clicking on the knob. Very confusing! The cursor should not move after releasing the mouse - there's no point in hiding the mouse cursor then. I see that track pan/vol and track control knobs behave the same... This ain't cool

Last edited by EvilDragon; 09-18-2019 at 10:05 AM.
EvilDragon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 10:04 AM   #3
Neutronic
Human being with feelings
 
Neutronic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 402
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Also the knob behaves weirdly. It hides the mouse cursor, but when releasing the mouse the cursor is NOT in the place where it was when clicking on the knob. Very confusing! The cursor should not move after releasing the mouse - there's no point in hiding the mouse cursor then. I see that track pan/vol and track control knobs behave the same... This ain't cool
The knobs work as expected here, so looks like the issue isn't universal.

Neutronic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 10:06 AM   #4
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 23,883
Default

Hmmm weird. Is there a setting that influences this?

EvilDragon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 10:21 AM   #5
Neutronic
Human being with feelings
 
Neutronic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 402
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Hmmm weird. Is there a setting that influences this?
There's the "Use pen/table-safe mode - do not reposition mouse cursor while adjusting knobs/etc" option under Editing Behavior --> Mouse.

I have it unticked but if ticked it causes the behavior your described (just tried it).
Neutronic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 10:24 AM   #6
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 23,883
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutronic View Post
There's the "Use pen/table-safe mode - do not reposition mouse cursor while adjusting knobs/etc" option under Editing Behavior --> Mouse.

I have it unticked but if ticked it causes the behavior your described (just tried it).
Ah thanks - that was it!
EvilDragon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 01:58 PM   #7
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 8,483
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
It's in I/O dialog, just so everyone knows.
Hoping for a video by Kenny

-Michael
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 10:01 AM   #8
dupont
Human being with feelings
 
dupont's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: France
Posts: 688
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutronic View Post
v5.983+dev0918 - September 18 2019

+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC
If there an advantage over using reainsert for managing latency from hardware synth audio return ?
dupont is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 10:03 AM   #9
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 23,883
Default

That feature is purely for dealing with virtual instrument latency (i.e. orchestral sample libraries etc.).

See this thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=224593
EvilDragon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 10:08 AM   #10
heda
Human being with feelings
 
heda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Spain
Posts: 5,675
Default

I was expecting per note delay parameter... not only track based delay. But this is good news
I will test it asap. I hope it is also in the API
heda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 10:09 AM   #11
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 23,883
Default

Hmmm, per note delay might be very unwieldy in practice... What would be the use case? (It's pretty obvious why track based delay makes sense.)
EvilDragon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 10:15 AM   #12
lucor
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 58
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Hmmm, per note delay might be very unwieldy in practice... What would be the use case? (It's pretty obvious why track based delay makes sense.)
I'm also curious. Maybe for orchestral instruments with keyswitches, where you'd need a different delay for different articulations? But then again this seems like it would be very cumbersome, and should be part of a articulation management system instead (I know Tack had a prototype for this for his Reaticulate script at one point, where you could set a different delay for each articulation).
lucor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 10:16 AM   #13
heda
Human being with feelings
 
heda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Spain
Posts: 5,675
Default

Because some libraries might have different attack times on lower notes than on high notes. Contrabass for example. Or maybe even FX libraries where any note have complete different sounds. Then it would be very easy to quantize those reverse cymbals in MIDI
Or because it is the REAPER way to go one step ahead when implementing features
heda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 12:12 PM   #14
dupont
Human being with feelings
 
dupont's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: France
Posts: 688
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
That feature is purely for dealing with virtual instrument latency (i.e. orchestral sample libraries etc.).

See this thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=224593
I made a test and it can be used to offset the audio coming from the external synths.
Track 1 with midi clip delayed by -40ms send to hardware synth
Track 2 receive the audio from the hardware synth through the audio interface
result : track 2 is also offset and audio interface delay is compensated.
dupont is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 10:07 AM   #15
lucor
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 58
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutronic View Post
v5.983+dev0918 - September 18 2019
+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC
Thank you devs, this is awesome!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Also the knob behaves weirdly. It hides the mouse cursor, but when releasing the mouse the cursor is NOT in the place where it was when clicking on the knob. Very confusing! The cursor should not move after releasing the mouse - there's no point in hiding the mouse cursor then. I see that track pan/vol and track control knobs behave the same... This ain't cool
FWIW this doesn't happen on my end, cursor stays at the same place. But I agree that 500ms might not be enough, there are some REALLY sluggish instruments out there.
lucor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 10:55 AM   #16
Thonex
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 961
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutronic View Post
+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC
Woooohooo.... this is fantastic. Thanks so much Reaper Dev Team!!

Ok... since we have your attention on this... one TEEENSY little Feature request: An ON/OFF button for that control. If there is not enough space, I'd take that over the knob any day. Here's the reason why...

If there is a bypass button, you can do patch changes (or articulation changes) that don't need negative delay, and this will alleviate the need to create a new track for the same patch. It also helps A/B groove. That was actually one positive about the SJFX insert... it could be bypassed with automation.

Just throwing that out there.

Thanks again guys!!

Cheers,

Andrew K
__________________
Cheers,
Andrew K
v6.03+dev0114 - January 14 2020 • Mac 10.12.+ • i7 Quad 2.9GHz • 24GB
Thonex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 11:08 AM   #17
mccrabney
Human being with feelings
 
mccrabney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Dundle, Louisiana
Posts: 2,206
Default

ahhhh, no more rendering my strings out just to get them to hit correctly. thanks!
__________________
° using REAPER as host/arranger/sequencer to write instrumental beat music.
° striving for a loop-based, controller-centric midi recording/editing workflow.
° colored tracks/items: optionally respect "selected track/item" theme color
mccrabney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 11:09 AM   #18
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 23,883
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thonex View Post
If there is a bypass button, you can do patch changes (or articulation changes) that don't need negative delay, and this will alleviate the need to create a new track for the same patch. It also helps A/B groove. That was actually one positive about the SJFX insert... it could be bypassed with automation.
I wonder if that's a can of worms or not, but yeah, if we can automate send parameters, we should be able to at the very least automate toggling track delay on/off.
EvilDragon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 11:13 AM   #19
mccrabney
Human being with feelings
 
mccrabney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Dundle, Louisiana
Posts: 2,206
Default

hmm, this works beautifully with static tempos, but in songs with dynamic tempos, it only works where you set it.

FR for automation of this param, or for a beat-based option
__________________
° using REAPER as host/arranger/sequencer to write instrumental beat music.
° striving for a loop-based, controller-centric midi recording/editing workflow.
° colored tracks/items: optionally respect "selected track/item" theme color
mccrabney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 11:15 AM   #20
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 23,883
Default

How do you mean "where you set it"?
EvilDragon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 11:19 AM   #21
mccrabney
Human being with feelings
 
mccrabney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Dundle, Louisiana
Posts: 2,206
Default

hm, i actually think i'm off the mark here - let me reconsider for a while. i suspect i was thinking in reverse.

edit, yup, i thought the issue would be conceptually similar to how, in a sidechain compressor, the release param in milliseconds doesn't change in response to tempo changes. in that case, if you're using it as a rhythmic effect, you have to automate it to follow the tempo.

i worried that this feature would have a similar issue, but it does not -- since it's compensating for a static value that likely has no relationship with bpm.
__________________
° using REAPER as host/arranger/sequencer to write instrumental beat music.
° striving for a loop-based, controller-centric midi recording/editing workflow.
° colored tracks/items: optionally respect "selected track/item" theme color
mccrabney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 11:22 AM   #22
lucor
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 58
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I wonder if that's a can of worms or not, but yeah, if we can automate send parameters, we should be able to at the very least automate toggling track delay on/off.
Thinking about it, it could be fantastic to be able to automate the delay amount. This could also make it fairly easy for @tack to implement a articulation-dependent delay amount for Reaticulate.
lucor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 12:03 PM   #23
Thonex
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 961
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucor View Post
Thinking about it, it could be fantastic to be able to automate the delay amount. This could also make it fairly easy for @tack to implement a articulation-dependent delay amount for Reaticulate.
Agreed, but considering where it's located, I'm not sure it would be automatable. But hey.... Those guys have surprised us before
__________________
Cheers,
Andrew K
v6.03+dev0114 - January 14 2020 • Mac 10.12.+ • i7 Quad 2.9GHz • 24GB
Thonex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 12:17 PM   #24
Klangfarben
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 889
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucor View Post
Thinking about it, it could be fantastic to be able to automate the delay amount. This could also make it fairly easy for @tack to implement a articulation-dependent delay amount for Reaticulate.
If track delay is accessible via API then tack, heda and others could send a specific delay amount when switching articulations, yes? Might be a little easier to manage that then making the track delay amount automatable.

EDIT: Also, holy crap balls. Thank you so much!!

Last edited by Klangfarben; 09-18-2019 at 12:29 PM.
Klangfarben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 12:29 PM   #25
Thonex
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 961
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klangfarben View Post
If track delay is accessible via API then tack, heda and others could send a specific delay amount when switching articulations, yes? Might be a little easier to manage that then making the track delay amount automatable.
+1000

API integration would be HUGE!!... and a natural next step.
__________________
Cheers,
Andrew K
v6.03+dev0114 - January 14 2020 • Mac 10.12.+ • i7 Quad 2.9GHz • 24GB
Thonex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 02:55 PM   #26
lucor
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 58
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klangfarben View Post
If track delay is accessible via API then tack, heda and others could send a specific delay amount when switching articulations, yes? Might be a little easier to manage that then making the track delay amount automatable.

EDIT: Also, holy crap balls. Thank you so much!!
True, that should be good enough and sounds much easier to implement for the devs.
lucor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 03:31 PM   #27
tack
Human being with feelings
 
tack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 933
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucor View Post
This could also make it fairly easy for @tack to implement a articulation-dependent delay amount for Reaticulate.
Yep and that's been on my to-do list for a while. I built a PoC which was finicky and I wasn't looking forward to a real implementation. This new feature will be a great help. We can set a fixed negative track offset and then Reaticulate can delay notes according to the current articulation.

It doesn't need to be automatable as such, but API support for setting the track offset definitely needed.

Great addition!
tack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 12:01 PM   #28
Thonex
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 961
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I wonder if that's a can of worms or not, but yeah, if we can automate send parameters, we should be able to at the very least automate toggling track delay on/off.
Looking at where it's located (in the I/O), I think you are right. Anyway... sometimes it's worth it to ask. I've written enough scripts to know that sometimes you get lucky and there are side-benefits that work
__________________
Cheers,
Andrew K
v6.03+dev0114 - January 14 2020 • Mac 10.12.+ • i7 Quad 2.9GHz • 24GB
Thonex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 11:35 AM   #29
srdmusic
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 647
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutronic View Post
v5.983+dev0918 - September 18 2019
+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC
This is fantastic. Can we please please please offer an option to delay in samples? I'd like to be a little more accurate especially with drums. Could be a toggle button in the I/O menu or global preference.

Either way thank you very much!!!!
srdmusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 01:42 PM   #30
lyrex
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 19
Default

+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC

[/QUOTE]

Devs please, add option to switch between miliseconds, samples and frames.

Thank you!
lyrex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 05:05 PM   #31
Thonex
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 961
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyrex View Post
+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC
Devs please, add option to switch between miliseconds, samples and frames.

Thank you![/QUOTE]

+1.

Agreed. I'm just so happy that they even included... i'm afraid to ask for more features... as if it would make me sound ungrateful
__________________
Cheers,
Andrew K
v6.03+dev0114 - January 14 2020 • Mac 10.12.+ • i7 Quad 2.9GHz • 24GB
Thonex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 05:37 PM   #32
Soli Deo Gloria
Human being with feelings
 
Soli Deo Gloria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 922
Default

Well, first of all A BIG, BIG THANK YOU for the negative offset feature, devs!!!!! It´s, for sure, one of those key features, and a long awaited one - even I created one of the threads about it some years ago : https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=199172 -.


All of the suggestions and remarks posted above are relevant, in my opinion.
Soli Deo Gloria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2019, 06:50 AM   #33
Argle
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,264
Default

This negative offset looks interesting. I have always used a negative audio delay on the output channels of my orchestral tracks to individually fix the timing of instruments, and it's worked fine for me. Does this new method have additional uses? It would be nice to have that setting in the TCP vs a plugin.
Argle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2019, 08:30 AM   #34
mespotine
Human being with feelings
 
mespotine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Leipzig, Germany
Posts: 1,901
Default

Can the +/- delay be changed dynamically, so I could compensate for possible latency issues that way automatically?
__________________
Pronounce me with she/her, when referencing me, please. Thanks :)
Ultraschall-API - 1111 ReaScript functions for Reaper
Reaper Internals - Developerdocs4Reaper
mespotine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2019, 08:48 AM   #35
schwa
Administrator
 
schwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 10,526
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mespotine View Post
Can the +/- delay be changed dynamically, so I could compensate for possible latency issues that way automatically?
Changing the playback delay can be resource-intensive, so we're not going to support changing this dynamically for now.
schwa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2019, 11:20 AM   #36
heda
Human being with feelings
 
heda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Spain
Posts: 5,675
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Changing the playback delay can be resource-intensive, so we're not going to support changing this dynamically for now.
I hope it is not a problem for having a method to read/set it from API. It could be ignored when playing. And just work when stopped when used from API.
heda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2019, 01:22 PM   #37
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 8,483
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mespotine View Post
Can the +/- delay be changed dynamically, so I could compensate for possible latency issues that way automatically?
I don't understand what you exactly mean.

As PDC is only accepted by Reaper when starting, automatiing negative delay values does not make sense.

-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 09-19-2019 at 10:32 PM.
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2019, 12:54 AM   #38
bigjoe
Human being with feelings
 
bigjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 93
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyrex View Post

Devs please, add option to switch between miliseconds, samples and frames.

Thank you!
+1 on this!!
bigjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 02:17 PM   #39
puddi
Human being with feelings
 
puddi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 252
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutronic View Post
+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC
This is huge, thank you devs!

It got me thinking if the delay knob could also be somewhere more accessible (in addition to the I/O window). Maybe straight on the MCP for those quick fine tunings?
puddi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 04:32 PM   #40
Triode
Human being with feelings
 
Triode's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 589
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by puddi View Post
This is huge, thank you devs!

It got me thinking if the delay knob could also be somewhere more accessible (in addition to the I/O window). Maybe straight on the MCP for those quick fine tunings?
I agree - a delay readout in digits printed on mixer track panels would be lovely
And a way of bypassing via a modified click on them
__________________
Brush and Beater Drums Online: www.outoftheboxdrums.co.uk
Triode is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.