Old 07-09-2020, 04:59 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by RobinGShore View Post
I don't think the name makes sense actually. Even before area selection appeared in the dev versions, "move with media items" was not an accurate description. Here is how the option currently works when editing using plain old time selections.


As you can see the envelopes are not tied only to the media items
I agree EDIT: ( idk if I agree anymore see some post bellow )
I have to say that just now I seen this behavior that EPMWTS also move points under time selection(if selection is between items).

Between 1,2 there is an TS
Between 2,3 There is not an Ts

I like this, but I havent notice till today hahaha

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Old 07-09-2020, 05:46 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by RobinGShore View Post
I don't think the name makes sense actually. Even before area selection appeared in the dev versions, "move with media items" was not an accurate description. Here is how the option currently works when editing using plain old time selections.


As you can see the envelopes are not tied only to the media items
I agree that the name could be better now that we have area selection, but I don't exactly see what's wrong in your example.

The envelopes are moving WITH the media items and since you created a time selection you probably want the envelopes within that time to also move WITH the items. Otherwise you would have just selected the items normally (without a time selection). No?
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Old 07-09-2020, 06:32 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by puddi View Post
I agree that the name could be better now that we have area selection, but I don't exactly see what's wrong in your example.

The envelopes are moving WITH the media items and since you created a time selection you probably want the envelopes within that time to also move WITH the items. Otherwise you would have just selected the items normally (without a time selection). No?
I think the name is more or less fine/good I really don't know

The thing more people is commenting ( I Think ) Is to what envelopes points the action is referring to


As I demonstrated here

Quote:
Originally Posted by daniellumertz View Post
I agree
I have to say that just now I seen this behavior that EPMWTS also move points under time selection(if selection is between items).

Between 1,2 there is an TS
Between 2,3 There is not an Ts

I like this, but I havent notice till today hahaha
I really don't have any better Ideas to how should be named hahaha maybe it is good idk....
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Old 07-09-2020, 07:08 PM   #164
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If I'm understanding correctly, he wants to be able to automatically copy/move hidden envelope points with media items AND have the ability to disable the general "move envelope points with media items" setting so that he can at the same time also select only the visible envelopes of his choosing with one area selection.
That's the part where the possible misunderstanding is. You don't disable Move envelope points with media items to be able to move visible envelope points, if you want to keep that option how it actually works right now. Because right now you can move envelope points without ever touching that option. It's only when you want the envelope points covered by the selected items to move with them that you have to have that option engaged.

I can already area select envelopes and items, I'm not missing anything in that regard. I'm talking about the FR where people also want to get hidden envelopes to follow item selection. I said that I can understand that request. But trying to make it happen by forcing it under the current "Move env points w/ items" option doesn't quite calculate here.

That option is not about moving hidden envelopes. It's about moving envelope points with items. Disable it or not, you can still always select and move envelope points. Same thing with items. Regardless of this option, you can select/move items. AS adds the marvellous ability to do either or both and everywhere on Arrange area.

What I'm saying is, if you start toggling options, why not start toggling on/off if the hidden envelopes are also affected along with the related items? If not changing current option behavior, that could be specific just to area selection. You can already control with your mouse what you select from the visible area of arrange. Add hidden envelopes to that with an option and you can have both. Both together? I don't need it now, you don't need it now. But if it would be possible, why not?
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Old 07-09-2020, 08:16 PM   #165
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I can already area select envelopes and items, I'm not missing anything in that regard. I'm talking about the FR where people also want to get hidden envelopes to follow item selection. I said that I can understand that request. But trying to make it happen by forcing it under the current "Move env points w/ items" option doesn't quite calculate here.
If I select an area of media items using area selection and move them - am I not moving the media items?
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Old 07-09-2020, 10:21 PM   #166
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Telling people to use item selection because they have a different use case than you for area selection is a really sh**ty response. Everyone has different workflows. By your standard Cockos might as well scrap area selection entirely since technically speaking, there is nothing you can accomplish with area selection that can't already be done with some clumsy combination of the existing tools.
Not at all! for me Area Selection has a purpose just like items selection, .. the combination of both do the job. If you had noticed i have been argumenting for years now about the benefits of area selection. But I don't want to do everything with area selection because then area selection might loose the main purpose.

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Why are you opposed to having the option to move hidden envelopes with AS. Nothing that anyone has suggested would prevent you from using AS in the way that you'd like to, but what you're suggesting will definitely prevent other people from being able to use Area Selection.
I am opposed for making as main definition of area selection "what you hear" instead of what you see. By default should be what you see, anything else is an extra, not the main purpose of the feature in my point of view. People been living with item selections and manny manny manny people could not even understand why Area Selection was being so much debated, suddently they want to do everything with AS what it could be achieved until now with Item Selection.
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Old 07-09-2020, 10:23 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by puddi View Post
If I select an area of media items using area selection and move them - am I not moving the media items?
the examples you given is when moving item, .. basically its like we have with item selection and "move envelopes with items" . The area selection and relation with visibility is not shown. In the examples if i understand right, you grabbed item, if you would grab anything else of area behviour would not be the same. Copying/duplicating/ areas of automation of 1 or all envelopes does not carry any others automation.

the Exception is when grabbing item title, which then consider the preference "Lock Off Aka Move envelopes with Item". But is something on top and seems cockos would have to work on that.

Actually in ableton live area selection and how the UI is done, does not even allow to mix automations with item area selection. So there is much missleading information.
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Old 07-09-2020, 10:41 PM   #168
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Default Media Explorer

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already done (Options > Default action > Try to open non-media files)
Not quite the same.., with Windows you have an "Open with" sub menu that would allow you to choose which app. For example you might want to open a .txt file one time with Notepad, another time with Excel, or maybe Notpad++. By the way that new feature does not work with .txt files.

Another thing I found that was better with Windows Media Explorer was you could lasso multiple files at once with just the mouse, with REAPERs Media Explorer you have to use the Shift key, which means two hands.
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Old 07-09-2020, 10:44 PM   #169
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Default Hidden automation envelopes

Hi guys,

how do you deal with hidden envelope?

I would like to know how you know that a particular track has active envelope but not displayed without going right click the context menu.

Are you just toggling "Envelope: Toggle show all active envelopes for all tracks" on and off? or maybe you put a distinct color or name to theses track?

Thank you
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Old 07-09-2020, 10:46 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by deeb View Post
the examples you given is when moving item, .. basically its like we have with item selection and "move envelopes with items" . The area selection and relation with visibility is not shown. In the examples if i understand right, you grabbed item, if you would grab anything else of area behviour would not be the same.
My only point is that I'm moving the media item but the envelope points aren't following like the option says:



We'll just have to agree to disagree and wait for the devs to come up with a good solution.

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Originally Posted by deeb View Post
Actually in ableton live area selection and how the UI is done, does not even allow to mix automations with item area selection. So there is much missleading information.
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish.


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Originally Posted by tronce View Post
Hi guys,

how do you deal with hidden envelope?

I would like to know how you know that a particular track has active envelope but not displayed without going right click the context menu.

Are you just toggling "Envelope: Toggle show all active envelopes for all tracks" on and off? or maybe you put a distinct color or name to theses track?

Thank you
Yeah, that pretty much. Or the option that shows envelopes for the selected track(s).
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Old 07-09-2020, 10:54 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puddi View Post
My only point is that I'm moving the media item but the envelope points aren't following like the option says:
Then if option was named, "envelopes move with item selection" you would be ok? :P
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I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish.
The point is you are grabbing item title which is not the area of automation. Is different.
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We'll just agree to disagree

Me too
All good!
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Old 07-09-2020, 11:06 PM   #172
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Then if option was named, "envelopes move with item selection" you would be ok? :P
I guess that would at least make a little more sense.

Either way I (and many others) need hidden envelopes to move with area selection. There's no way around it.
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Old 07-09-2020, 11:16 PM   #173
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they will find for sure a good solution. Would be nice to have a lice cap of other DAWS doing the same:
- Individual duplication of envelopes
- duplication with "envelopes move with media items"

to see how they handle.

The point is that: Ableton makes an "hybrid" item/area selection when grabbing the item. So when grabbing item inside the AS, it considers the option "envelopes follow media items" but not when grabbing envelopes area of AS.

And i think i would be happy with that.
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Old 07-09-2020, 11:30 PM   #174
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Btw, I checked with an earlier pre (v6.11_dev0603) and there it worked as I would expect. Not really sure when we decided it should not work like that. Oh, well.



Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
The point is that: Ableton makes an "hybrid" item/area selection when grabbing the item. So when grabbing item inside the AS, it considers the option "envelopes follow media items" but not when grabbing envelopes area of AS.

And i think i would be happy with that.
Huh? I still don't understand your point about Ableton.
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Old 07-09-2020, 11:37 PM   #175
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ableton area selection containing:
1 item,
3 envelopes

Inside this Area Selection:
If drag is on MediaItem then consider "envelopes move with item"
If drag is not in MediaItem then don't consider "envelopes move with item"
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Old 07-09-2020, 11:47 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
ableton area selection containing:
1 item,
3 envelopes

Inside this Area Selection:
If drag is on MediaItem then consider "envelopes move with item"
If drag is not in MediaItem then don't consider "envelopes move with item"
In your testing, did you disable the orange "Lock envelopes" button? The one above the track names.
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Old 07-09-2020, 11:49 PM   #177
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Devs, i would suggest: Maybe you could considering the same principle for area selection applied in Automation in Media Lanes. (it would make your life easier i guess, altho i would prefer area selection inside Media Lane too )
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Old 07-09-2020, 11:52 PM   #178
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In your testing, did you disable the orange "Lock envelopes" button? The one above the track names.
i went to options. The thing is that ableton live when dragging envelope inside area selection it does not even allow me to drag and drop to copy or move and It starts manipulating the envelopes instead, but still allows delete, copy paste and duplicate .. But when dragging the item it allow drag and drop to copy or move and it follows the Lock on/off option. I am not into Ableton, i just quickly checked - hopefully right.
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Old 07-09-2020, 11:59 PM   #179
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i went to options. The thing is that ableton live when dragging envelope inside area selection it does not even allow me to drag and drop to copy. It starts manipulating the envelopes instead. But allow when dragging the item and then it follows the Lock on/off option. I am not into Ableton, i just quickly checked.
Yeah, you can't drag copy envelopes in Ableton but need to select them and copy/paste.
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Old 07-10-2020, 12:39 AM   #180
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Although I'm sure the devs will come to the right solution for general area selection behaviours.

In a ai copying related note..

I was just copying some items/AI together and tried to select (by left clicking), an item on track one and also an automation item on track two that although was on a different track, was directly below the item on track one.

To my surprise, I couldn't actually move or copy both of them together..

What's with that? I really hope I've either got an option wrong or that get changed to make it possible!

I did end up using area selection to do it but it was fiddly as the item and the AI had different start and end points so I had to separately adjust each area to fit them which was made worse by snapping not being right for area selection yet. On top of that, area selection trims the background even with trim items off which I didn't want either and time selection doesn't do.

Please consider being able to move AIs along with items in the normal way (or remind me where the option is to do this please!) lol
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Old 07-10-2020, 12:48 AM   #181
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To conclude my suggestion:

1) Area selection containing:
--==========================
1 item,
3 envelopes

(or multiple areas)

Inside this Area Selection:
If drag is on MediaItem then consider "envelopes move with item" but exclude the visible envelopes which are not part of AS.

If drag is not in MediaItem then don't consider "envelopes move with item" at all.

2) Still no solution available for media item lane.
--==========================
I would prefer if Area Selection could be used in media lane, but i would not be shocked if copying media item lanes they would follow "envelope move with media item" or even "Always move with media item" but definitely not has good /flexible / desirable as if Area selection could work inside media lane, but anyway up to you!
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Old 07-10-2020, 03:34 AM   #182
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When zooming in the inline midi editor, a semi-transparent object appears:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/103C...ew?usp=sharing

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Old 07-10-2020, 04:25 AM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
I was just copying some items/AI together and tried to select (by left clicking), an item on track one and also an automation item on track two that although was on a different track, was directly below the item on track one. To my surprise, I couldn't actually move or copy both of them together..
yup, you can't lasso starting with AI and have them move. this has been a problem for a while. expected behavior: anything selected will move, regardless of which is selected first, and that AI will behave/move just like any other item.

related: if an AI is selected, and then you lasso select from an item area, your lasso is ineffective on items. expected behavior: order of selection should have no effect on what you can and can't select. as always, mentally substitute a midi item for the AI in the gif above (and assume the same unexpected behavior) for a clear demonstration of why this isn't right.

more evidence of why mouse modifiers for "select items," "select ai," "select all" are superior to my least favorite of toggles: "envelope points move with items" ...

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Old 07-10-2020, 09:14 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by puddi View Post
Btw, I checked with an earlier pre (v6.11_dev0603) and there it worked as I would expect. Not really sure when we decided it should not work like that. Oh, well.
Yeah, the way it worked in earlier versions was great. I didn't notice any confusion or complaints so I'm not sure why they decided to change things.
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Old 07-10-2020, 09:48 AM   #185
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Yeah, the way it worked in earlier versions was great. I didn't notice any confusion or complaints so I'm not sure why they decided to change things.
i guess it's an apparent step backward to give 5 forward
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Old 07-10-2020, 11:48 AM   #186
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Default Media explorer:

The last search is constantly erased when restarting the Media explorer and remembers only the last 15 phrases. Is it possible to increase this list to 50-100 keywords?

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Old 07-10-2020, 11:58 AM   #187
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Could the search field become automatically expanded when focused and the list could get filtered by what is being typed. Exactly like in explorer.

(Plus previously mentioned buttons for clearing the field and for search option.)

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