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Old 11-14-2020, 11:25 AM   #1
stw
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Default Big Sur

Hi IPlug fellows,
Apple just released Big Sur. I tested my plugs in a virtual machine and couldn't discover any failures. But this feels too good to last...
Since almost any big OSX update introduced some big trouble as well i'm curious if anyone had any bad experience?
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Old 11-21-2020, 09:41 AM   #2
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So far it appears that all of my iPlug1 plugins that work in Catalina ALSO work in Big Sur - including Logic Pro X and Pro Tools 2020.11 (a freakin' miracle). As a matter of fact - everything seems to work BETTER on Big Sur - smoother/faster.

This is with Big Sur running on Intel - I do not have an M1/ARM Mac to test with so that is unknown and will be shown as unsupported for now.

Last edited by Nonlinear; 11-23-2020 at 07:26 PM.
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Old 12-17-2020, 11:45 AM   #3
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I've tested mine on Big Sur with an M1 macbook and everything seems to be working as expected.
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Old 12-18-2020, 10:43 AM   #4
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I've tested mine on Big Sur with an M1 macbook and everything seems to be working as expected.
Can you let us know about build process?

I am about to update plugins for Catalina and Big Sur (notarization) included M1 support.

I built one of my plugins with Xcode 12 on Catalina and it's working on older versions with no issue. But it's test drive. No notarization, yet.

I did universal binary.

https://developer.apple.com/document...l_macos_binary

Correct way? Will plugins work with M1 when we build like this?

Thanks.
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Old 12-18-2020, 11:29 AM   #5
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Can you let us know about build process?
Nothing different from what I've been doing for the past 8 years. Even plugins I compiled 8 years ago seem to open fine in Big Sur on the M1. And they run plenty fast. Rosetta seems to do a pretty good job of keeping things running normally.
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Old 12-18-2020, 11:30 AM   #6
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If you have a plugin you want me to try out on it, I'd be happy to give it an install and let you know if it kills me.
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Old 12-18-2020, 11:46 AM   #7
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If you have a plugin you want me to try out on it, I'd be happy to give it an install and let you know if it kills me.
Thanks for your help!

Just sent PM.
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Old 12-20-2020, 11:48 AM   #8
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Nothing different from what I've been doing for the past 8 years. Even plugins I compiled 8 years ago seem to open fine in Big Sur on the M1. And they run plenty fast. Rosetta seems to do a pretty good job of keeping things running normally.
I have seen a lot of plugin developers warn that they are not yet compatible. So what causes PROBLEMS on Big Sur/M1/ARM? Is it plugins that use optimized assembly-level code? If you stick with high level C/C++ and compile on X-code are you OK - or are there other issues?
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Old 12-28-2020, 05:23 AM   #9
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The most serious issue I have found is that on ARM/Big Sur, Logic and Garageband run all AUv2s out of process, and that process has the tightest macOS sandbox restrictions. i.e. your presets etc need to be in ~/Music. There are other restrictions that might affect you if your plugin does anything unusual like hoping its only MIDI ports (i think).
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Old 01-04-2021, 02:18 PM   #10
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Happy new year to all!

Finally i got one...
AU version of my plug doesn't write automation data on Big Sur.
VST/VST3/AAX seems to have no probs.

The AU plug does trigger a parameter write (e.g. when using touch write) and one value gets through but continuous data write fails. IPlug1 examples and most 3rd party plugins suffer from the same issue - though VirtualCZ from Oli works fine (i guess it's an early IPlug2 build..?). The IPlug2 examples do work.
If anyone has a clue of where to look at before i start digging in the dark...
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Old 01-04-2021, 02:52 PM   #11
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which DAW?
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Old 01-04-2021, 03:53 PM   #12
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which DAW?
at least Reaper and Logic. Live10 as well
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Old 01-04-2021, 04:35 PM   #13
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hmm. Automation seems to be working fine on the AU version of my plugins on my machine. I don't think I've done anything special to the automation, at least not that I can remember.
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Old 01-04-2021, 05:02 PM   #14
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hmm. Automation seems to be working fine on the AU version of my plugins on my machine. I don't think I've done anything special to the automation, at least not that I can remember.
This is strange. I tried your Imperial Delay 1.5 demo in Reaper 6.0.9 and Logic 10.6.1 on Big Sur 11.0.1.
Automation write fails in both DAWs.
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Old 01-04-2021, 05:24 PM   #15
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oh, wait. You are right. I'm getting the same thing over here.
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Old 01-05-2021, 07:39 AM   #16
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I've got automation problems on arm Logic/GB not intel
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Old 01-05-2021, 09:04 AM   #17
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I've got automation problems on arm Logic/GB not intel
With IPlug1 builds, or still with IPlug2?
Any ideas why IPlug2 plugs don't suffer from the write fails?
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Old 01-05-2021, 09:11 AM   #18
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VirtualCZ is iPlug1.5 which is using the Steinberg VST3 auwrapper... Not sure why this and iPlug1 are having problems
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Old 01-05-2021, 10:27 AM   #19
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VirtualCZ is iPlug1.5 which is using the Steinberg VST3 auwrapper... Not sure why this and iPlug1 are having problems
VirtualCZ works fine. That's why i asked.
So maybe the VST3 auwrapper is worth a look. Never touched that before...
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Old 01-05-2021, 10:43 AM   #20
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Is this problem only on ARM/M1 machines? I have tested my AU, VST, VST3 and AAX builds in Reaper, Logic Pro X and Pro Tools 2020.11 on Big Sur on an older Mac (Intel) and they all write and read automation as expected. All iPlug1 plugins.
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Old 01-05-2021, 10:53 AM   #21
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"VirtualCZ works fine. That's why i asked."

The ARM version does not!

Logic 10.61 AU hosting on Big Sur intel != Logic 10.61 AU hosting on Big Sur arm
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Old 01-05-2021, 11:32 AM   #22
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Is this problem only on ARM/M1 machines?
Sorry for the confusion. I tested only on intel.
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Old 01-05-2021, 12:25 PM   #23
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Logic 10.61 AU hosting on Big Sur intel != Logic 10.61 AU hosting on Big Sur arm
Then, IMO, Apple has some fixing to do as Rosetta 2 is supposed to make this "seamless": https://www.theverge.com/21304182/ap...rter-explainer

Meanwhile, old VST plugins I built and released on Windows XP still work on Win 10...

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Old 01-05-2021, 04:19 PM   #24
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So it's seems that automation is broken in different ways for my iPlug1 plugin "Endless Series" which can't write automation properly and for VirtualCZ (auwrapper) which doesn't display updates properly in its UI in response to automation curves
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Old 01-05-2021, 05:48 PM   #25
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I have tested my AU, VST, VST3 and AAX builds in Reaper, Logic Pro X and Pro Tools 2020.11 on Big Sur on an older Mac (Intel) and they all write and read automation as expected. All iPlug1 plugins.
Unfortunately I was wrong here. After further testing I have discovered that my AU plugins work properly in Reaper but do NOT work properly in Logic Pro X. The problem only affects BOOL and INT controls (switches) - rotary/linear controls (DOUBLES) write/read properly.

While in WRITE mode clicking on an INT or BOOL control changes the status shown in Logic's track info window - so Logic IS getting the signal - but it does not record those changes to the data lane. All plugin controls do respond properly in READ mode.

Whatever the problem is in Logic I traced it back to have started with OS Catalina and it has carried forward to Big Sur. Everything works properly in Mojave.

At least in my case this appears to be an issue internal to Logic Pro X - Write/Read works properly for all controls in the AU version in Reaper in all OS. VST and VST3 versions also work properly in Reaper and so does AAX in Pro Tools.

Since the status shows up properly in the Logic's info section - and all works in Reaper - this appears to be a problem in Logic Pro X and not the plugin, IMO. Logic's native plugins, of course, work properly, so...?

BTW - Logic/Auval reports all controls as Readable and Writeable and PASS validation.

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Old 01-05-2021, 06:54 PM   #26
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Unfortunately I was wrong here. After further testing I have discovered that my AU plugins work properly in Reaper but do NOT work properly in Logic Pro X. The problem only affects BOOL and INT controls (switches) - rotary/linear controls (DOUBLES) write/read properly.
I just discovered this is only an issue when using the plugin in GUI editor mode. If I switch to Generic Editor write/read works properly for all controls in all OS.

When in GUI mode it appears Logic is only recording a snapshot of the Bool/Int controls on transport stop/start. Does not capture changes while running.

So it appears to be a GUI interrupt/thread issue - but only for Bool/Int parameters - and it started with OS Catalina. I am only building 64-bit but is it possible there is still some 32-bit remnant in the iPlug bundle that is causing this?

Last edited by Nonlinear; 01-05-2021 at 10:00 PM.
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Old 01-06-2021, 04:55 AM   #27
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The GUI mode seems to be part of the problem.
However i get some different results. So maybe your builds have other specs?
I used the original IPlug1 master branch (well... with some slight but unrelated modifications)

Catalina works fine under all conditions.
BigSur(intel!) does not in GUI mode. Whereas Logic doesn't write anything while Reaper at least writes bool/int params.

Both DAWs work fine in generic UI mode.
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Old 01-06-2021, 11:47 AM   #28
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Both DAWs work fine in generic UI mode.
OK, we have that in common. Oli and Boz perhaps you could check your plugins in "Generic Editor Mode" as well? Perhaps this helps point to the cause of the problem.

All of us seem to be saying that automation WRITE is not working properly in OS Big Sur but what I have discovered - at least in my case - is that the problem actually started with OS Catalina. I suspect the reason is that Catalina was the first OS to eliminate 32-bit support.

Even though I'm building all of my plugins as 64-bit perhaps there is SOMETHING in the generated AU component package that is still 32-bit?

I have been compiling my plugins in Xcode 10 without any issues however I just tried compiling the same package in Xcode 11 and it warns me that,

"This project contains the targets `base_32_intel` and `lice_32_intel` configured to build 32-bit architectures. Xcode requires that macOS targets support 64-bit architectures."

I do not get that warning in Xcode 10. So it appears that Xcode 11 is finding a problem that Xcode 10 did not report - and that problem (32-bit code) may be the underlying issue for OS Catalina and OS Big Sur. Perhaps Reaper is robust enough to work through it but Logic Pro X is more strict?

I am not smart enough to understand what to do with Base_32_intel or lice_32_intel or how to fix this but perhaps this info will trigger some thought from those of you more skilled. This may not be the problem with your plugins but perhaps it's related.
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Old 01-06-2021, 01:12 PM   #29
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It's not related to 32/64 bit stuff. FWIW, automation Read/Write is working fine with Endless Series (WDL-OL/iPlug) in Logic 10.61 on Catalina (intel). It's the XPC AU hosting on Apple Silicon that seems to have problems. Going to report it to apple. JUCE plugins have issues too AFAICT
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Old 01-06-2021, 02:02 PM   #30
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Yes, Catalina is fine. Don't know what the XPC is doing under the hood. Would that explain why IPlug2 builds are working on intel?
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Old 01-07-2021, 09:29 AM   #31
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FWIW, automation Read/Write is working fine with Endless Series (WDL-OL/iPlug) in Logic 10.61 on Catalina (intel).
I tried to test your Endless Series plugin on my OS Catalina but it appears you haven't Signed and/or Notarized it as it refuses to install:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FdS...ew?usp=sharing


Here is a screen video of what MY "WDL-OL" plugins are doing in Logic Pro X 10.6.1 running in OS Catalina and OS Big Sur. Toggling any button/switch or selector control (BOOL and INT data types) updates the Track Info display correctly but does NOT get recorded or updated in the track timeline.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RL1...ew?usp=sharing

Rotary and linear controls (DOUBLE data types) DO record properly.

This problem does not occur in OS Mojave only in OS Catalina and OS Big Sur. It also works properly in Reaper in ALL OS versions.

This looks like a bug in Logic Pro X to me - i.e., Logic's timeline doesn't match track data. I have submitted a bug report to Apple.

Meanwhile, if this is problem in my plugin any thoughts about the possible cause - and why YOUR "WDL-OL" plugins work and mine don't? As stated above, when the plugin is run in Generic Editor mode automation WRITE works for all controls.

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Old 01-07-2021, 09:48 AM   #32
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ok sounds like we are talking about multiple bugs i'll try other kinds of params in endless series
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Old 01-07-2021, 10:00 AM   #33
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ok sounds like we are talking about multiple bugs i'll try other kinds of params in endless series
BTW - I just noticed - the latest version of Logic Pro X for OS Mojave is 10.5.1 whereas the latest versions for Catalina and Big Sur is 10.6.1

So there IS something different that took place with OS Catalina. Probably 32/64 bit related.
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Old 01-07-2021, 10:17 AM   #34
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Probably 32/64 bit related.

why?
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Old 01-07-2021, 10:35 AM   #35
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Probably 32/64 bit related.

why?
Just speculating since Catalina completely dropped support for any 32-bit code (Quicktime, for example). Ask the folks at Avid/Pro Tools about it! Some of their Mojave code will NEVER work on Catalina+.

If there is something buried in WDL-OL that contains 32-bit code - a library file perhaps - MAYBE that is the issue. Just guessing but it seems plausible, IDK.
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Old 01-07-2021, 10:56 AM   #36
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32/64 bit arch doesn't really work like that. RE iplug1 problems, it might be something todo with the AUPlugin entrypoint changes https://developer.apple.com/library/...76/_index.html
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Old 01-07-2021, 11:11 AM   #37
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UPDATE: I just loaded Logic 10.5.1 on Big Sur (Intel) and my plugin works perfectly.

SO - the automation bug - at least in my case (but maybe affecting everyone here, even on ARM) - is with Logic 10.6.1

Last edited by Nonlinear; 01-07-2021 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 01-09-2021, 10:21 AM   #38
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UPDATE: I just loaded Logic 10.5.1 on Big Sur (Intel) and my plugin works perfectly.

SO - the automation bug - at least in my case (but maybe affecting everyone here, even on ARM) - is with Logic 10.6.1
After finally reinstalling my complete Big Sur system due to an incomplete and failing 11.1 update (what an unbelievable mess - thanks Apple) i tested Logic 10.5.1 and can't confirm your observations. Write automation fails as it does on 10.6.1. So no difference on my side. Testing on Big Sur 11.1 intel.

@Oli: Since i'm not very familiar with AU entry points and how and where they're established in IPlug, do you have any advice where to start for bug hunting or (since IPlug2 has no probs on intel) what are the differences between IPlug2 and Iplug1 in this concern?
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Old 01-09-2021, 11:03 AM   #39
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After finally reinstalling my complete Big Sur system due to an incomplete and failing 11.1 update (what an unbelievable mess - thanks Apple) i tested Logic 10.5.1 and can't confirm your observations. Write automation fails as it does on 10.6.1. So no difference on my side. Testing on Big Sur 11.1 intel.
Weird. I have made many updates/fixes to the WDL-OL package along the way that have been addressed and documented in this forum. The plugins built with it work for me on Big Sur (Intel). I have even compiled my plugins in Xcode 11.7 running on Big Sur and they also work. I can post my iPlug folder or AU files if you want to try to build with it or compare. Let me know.

Are you using any special graphics or customized code outside of WDL-OL?

Last edited by Nonlinear; 01-09-2021 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 01-09-2021, 11:08 AM   #40
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I'm a bit busy but I'm going to get back to this next week. I think some of the bugs we are talking about might be intermittent things that show up one minute and work fine the next. I *think* I had a couple of times over the last week where I fired up particular version of Logic, that I thought I could reproduce a bug in, but it worked.
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