Old 11-13-2020, 07:06 AM   #1
Rhonin
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Default choosing nearfeild speakers

Hi Im not really atechnical guy so I am just trying to decide
between the 2 best deals I found

A :Pair of KRK Rokit 5 + Iso Acoustic Stands + Balanced cables! - $300

B :Klipsch Reference R-15M Speakers - $200
*I would have to buy an amplifier for these


I am just recording quiet acoustic guitar and I have been told the krk may be made for edm.

I really dont want or need extended bass

should i make a poll?
anyway thanks for reading Im sure you get lots of questions like this
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Old 11-13-2020, 07:24 AM   #2
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studio monitors are studio monitors, not sure any are made for specific types of music. most are made for general use.

an amp will potentially colour the sound more than the power built into the powered monitors.

sound on sound magazine is great for monitor reviews if you wanna check the general reception those monitors received.
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Old 11-13-2020, 08:01 AM   #3
Rhonin
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Default its like choosing between different types of apples??

Im not going to be building bass traps or doing room treatment
so I guess
you make a good point
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Old 11-13-2020, 10:01 AM   #4
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Forget about any manufacturer being made for a specific genre, that's crazy : ) There are speakers with tighter or not as tight low end, or subtly more (or less) detail in mids or less fatiguing after an hour of listening, etc. There are many variables but if an "EDM" speaker is any good at all it will be good for acoustic music as well, or else its mids and highs would have to be just as wrong for EDM.

At low volumes there's much less difference between decent nearfields, with the important "all else being equal" inserted here : ) What you care about is a pair of speakers that

1) Are pleasing for you to sit in front of and listen to
2) Are 'flat' and not hyped for listening like stereo bookshelf speakers, because you want as close to the true sound and not a sound improved by the speaker;
3) You can work on for hours without getting ear fatigue;
4) Translate well to other environments when you mix on them. In other words, that are easy for you to (eventually) get a handle on so that your mixes sound right in other rooms, in the car, in your friends' listening environments, everywhere else, etc. You want to be able to get used to them and feel at home as you mix, that you are confident that the more you learn to mix on them the more the mixes will sound better elsewhere as well. That your ears and the speakers are a team, not fighting each other or playing guessing games.

There's really not that much else to it. People with well developed ears will have preferences in $300 nearfields, that one may be a hair more open sounding than the other, which may sound a tad constipated. Play your music through anything you're considering and see how it strikes you, keeping in mind that it won't/shouldn't be shaping the sound to your liking or disliking. That's a function of the production and mix (leaving the mastering of commercial music out of the equation for now).

Having put three different pairs of nearfields on my DAW desk at home one the past ten years, I can say with certainty that the difference between them wasn't especially great in the context of a non- studio room. If you're not going to do much to the room, where you place them, and where you place your desk make all the difference in the world. I moved to my current speakers, Kali LP6's, because I wanted a upgrade from the self powered nearfields I had to ones that had more extensive eq dipswitches for different placements and I wanted front ported because I had to have my desk closer to the wall than I used to. And they replaced speakers that had replaced decent passive speakers that were being too colored by an inexpensive power amp. Had they all been the same sized speakers they all would have been fine, but only had all the rest of the factors fallen into place (less colored power amp, more flexibility in positioning) which they didn't : )

So I told myself any decent front ported, self powered nearfields that got good reviews would be worth looking into, and it didn't matter if they were the favorite of death metal mixers or Americana mixers : ) I'm not a huge fan of the small Rokits I had heard, as I thought they didn't tell me enough (and that's not a dig on KRKs, just that inexpensive 5 inch speakers are not going to give you what inexpensive larger ones will) but that's just me and my stuff. But make that judgement based on how they sound to you with your music and your budget. Not anything else. The best thing about speakers, especially powered speakers, is that if you go with something for a year and then decide your ears have developed and you want something else, selling them and swapping in a different pair is the easiest thing in the world.
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Old 11-15-2020, 06:10 PM   #5
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Pair of KRK Rokit 5 + Iso Acoustic Stands

be sure those stands have Auralex type foam on. a stand can totally screw up your sound.

you want your monitors FIRMLY planted on something (best for bass if you want to force the issue).

OR

you want your monitors FLOATING in space completely. this allows the monitors to do their thing without a wobbly base stand.

both are ideal cases that are easy to understand. anything in between is a freaking mess. putting any monitor on a crappy stand with cause the monitors to sound 'peaky' and without attack on the bass.

imagine you're punching a punching bag. would you rather
- be standing on firm ground
- be standing on a skateboard
- be floating in free space

the skateboard has its own physics to take into account that really makes things more complicated.



KRKs have become VERY standard. once you buy them you'll see them modestly in the background of many studios. experiencing them will set you up for that next purchase of monitors that are priced twice as high, that will come as your ear develops, sorry, it takes time to feel this stuff out.

I now have Adam A7 monitors and love them. I know what to listen for them and what their weaknesses are but that took a long time to understand.

you're fine, just be attentive to your installation.
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Old 11-17-2020, 03:55 PM   #6
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I auditioned the Klipsch speakers. They'd be ok for a home stereo.
They are nowhere near being accurate or flat enough for mixing with.
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Old 11-17-2020, 06:54 PM   #7
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Made my own stands. Bought a 2x12 plank and cut it into 4 pieces, 2 for the tops and 2 for the bases. Got a length of 4" pvc and cut 2 sections for the height wanted. Bought (4) 4" toilet flanges. If they have pvc flanges then you just need a tube of pvc wield, all my store had was abs flanges so I needed a tube of abs to pvc wield.

Centered and screwed the 4 flanges to the 4 planks, wielded the pvc tubes to the bases, filled the tubes with playground sand. Popped the top planks on with no wield so they can be spun for optimum angle, or emptied if you move.

Spray painted both stands with black primer and paint and voila, quality stands for cheap.
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Old 11-18-2020, 03:52 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Tone Deft View Post
Pair of KRK Rokit 5 + Iso Acoustic Stands

be sure those stands have Auralex type foam on. a stand can totally screw up your sound.
Putting foam on these particular stands would be somewhat missing the point of them.

https://isoacoustics.com/products/is...lation-stands/
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Old 11-18-2020, 04:32 PM   #9
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Default maybe if i refraise the question

everone is familer w kvr or m audio but im not really sure what i need.
the space is 12 x 20 and untreated I just need something thats reasonable

i think what i am looking for would be called 'reference monitors
i really have a problem with buying pro gear price wise

so if you bought non-standard speakers for under $350 what i you end up with.do you think you got a better deal?
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Old 11-18-2020, 04:50 PM   #10
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Krk 8s with 10 sub are what I have and recommend.
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Old 11-18-2020, 05:27 PM   #11
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KRK rokit-5 g3 here,
the more i listen to them,the more i like mixing on them...
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Old 11-19-2020, 08:03 AM   #12
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I have JBL 308P Mk2 monitors, in a space 32'x 18' x 9' (DxWxH). For in-studio live jams, I have 2 JBL 15" Eon 400Watt PA speakers, to spare the monitor speakers from excessive loudness duty.

Both sets of speakers have stereo EQ and time correction impulse response files that I made with REW and a measurement mic, and loaded into ReaVerb in the monitoring FX of Reaper.

For acoustic treatment I have 12 2'x4'x2" homemade rigid fiberglass panels spaced 2" off the walls, and 3 large sofas that double as bass traps.

The acoustic treatment (and a measurement mic to test the results) is the best investment I ever made in sound gear. It made an incredible improvement.
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Old 11-19-2020, 09:07 AM   #13
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Quote:
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an amp will potentially colour the sound more than the power built into the powered monitors.
That depends on the quality of the amp you buy versus the quality of the amp that is built into powered monitors.

I have a pair of powered monitors and another pair of passive monitors with a top quality power amp.

Apart from the powered ones being over 2000 UK pounds versus 250 for the passives, plus about 100 for the amp, I am more than happy with both of them.

It all comes down to what you feel comfortable with
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Old 11-19-2020, 09:27 AM   #14
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Default well i had to buy something

id think studio monitors would be 500 and up,..
do I know monitors,.no,..so price point is how I make my decisions.

Theres not many studio monitors for sale around here so you have to act fast if you want to avoid the 'retail mark-up'

I bought a pair of AUDIOENGINE2 speakers for $160

(the only other option was m audio or Audix 1A studio monitor for 125

these are about 6x8 inch powerd boxes
you would probably classify them as computer speakers
but they seem to be made by a company that produces quailty products

i put them L/R on my table i do my computer work on
it seems to adversly affect the sound in the mid range

*someone was mentioning 'floating speakers'

i can notice notes 'stacking' when i listen to my bass guitar (the sub octave is louder than the fundimental on some note) but it reproduces a realistic and nice guitar reproduction

my rooms nice and bright sounding
with a few reverb echos

seems good for recording Im not sure how good it would be for mixing

I decided against trying to mix myself and do every thing at home
so these are good enough to do overdubs with
and listen to mixes on.
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Old 11-19-2020, 10:28 AM   #15
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That depends on the quality of the amp you buy versus the quality of the amp that is built into powered monitors.

I have a pair of powered monitors and another pair of passive monitors with a top quality power amp.

Apart from the powered ones being over 2000 UK pounds versus 250 for the passives, plus about 100 for the amp, I am more than happy with both of them.

It all comes down to what you feel comfortable with
Thats kinda why I said 'potentially'. Its a whole other world having to go and find amps and speakers that match, compared to perusing any well reviewed powered speakers and getting it all done in one purchase. Its just potentially less faff for the OP, all things considered.
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Old 11-19-2020, 10:32 AM   #16
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id think studio monitors would be 500 and up,..
do I know monitors,.no,..so price point is how I make my decisions.

Theres not many studio monitors for sale around here so you have to act fast if you want to avoid the 'retail mark-up'

I bought a pair of AUDIOENGINE2 speakers for $160

(the only other option was m audio or Audix 1A studio monitor for 125

these are about 6x8 inch powerd boxes
you would probably classify them as computer speakers
but they seem to be made by a company that produces quailty products

i put them L/R on my table i do my computer work on
it seems to adversly affect the sound in the mid range

*someone was mentioning 'floating speakers'

i can notice notes 'stacking' when i listen to my bass guitar (the sub octave is louder than the fundimental on some note) but it reproduces a realistic and nice guitar reproduction

my rooms nice and bright sounding
with a few reverb echos

seems good for recording Im not sure how good it would be for mixing

I decided against trying to mix myself and do every thing at home
so these are good enough to do overdubs with
and listen to mixes on.
I think mine were relatively cheap, compared what could be spent, and compared to what similar monitors cost me about 20 years ago. It seems the tech got cheaper in that 20 years. I'm using Mackie MR524's, relatively inexpensive. Or the other way I thought of it was 'fuck me, thats cheap!' and still well reviewed

Happy days
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Old 11-20-2020, 10:51 AM   #17
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Putting foam on these particular stands would be somewhat missing the point of them.

https://isoacoustics.com/products/is...lation-stands/
thanks for that! I love this about forums, I put out there what I think is correct and someone cares to teach me. much appreciated!

very impressed with those stands. now I'm staring at my Auralex foam like... that's ugly, yo... I do still have peaking problems at 110Hz, now I gotta GAS problem.
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Old 11-20-2020, 10:57 AM   #18
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KRK rokit-5 g3 here,
the more i listen to them,the more i like mixing on them...
love reading stories like that. once I learned what to listen for I never heard a system good or bad the same way. I never aspired to get those monitors but for-freaking-ever I've been reading stories like this about the KRKs. "not great but totally honest" I guess I'd call it. I've only experienced them at the G----r Center. those stores suuuuuuuuuuck these days.
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Old 11-20-2020, 11:03 AM   #19
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I would say JBL 305s, but JBL isn't really a company anymore and it would seem they had issues with their mainboards (one of mine cuts out unless I blast a signal into it).

I'm starting the think "cheap near fields" may be a bad way to go for a number of reasons. I'm kind of curious about the ELACs that get so much praise...
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Old 11-20-2020, 05:38 PM   #20
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I would say JBL 305s, but JBL isn't really a company anymore and it would seem they had issues with their mainboards (one of mine cuts out unless I blast a signal into it).

I'm starting the think "cheap near fields" may be a bad way to go for a number of reasons. I'm kind of curious about the ELACs that get so much praise...
"Cheap near fields" might be a bad way to go, but 'well reviewed by pro's, and well regarded by pro's inexpensive monitors' is a decent starting point I think
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Old 11-21-2020, 03:15 AM   #21
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thanks for that! I love this about forums, I put out there what I think is correct and someone cares to teach me. much appreciated!

very impressed with those stands. now I'm staring at my Auralex foam like... that's ugly, yo... I do still have peaking problems at 110Hz, now I gotta GAS problem.
My wife made me some triangular, tubular sacks out of old bed sheets.

Once you cut up some RW3 or similar rigid insulation board & stuff the sacks with it, they look a bit like a toblerone bar, but they make very good corner wide spectrum bass traps, which would help you tame that 110Hz bump at least a bit.

I made mine easy to hang by cutting out a thin plywood triangle that fits in the end of the bag & then screwing a cup hook to the back corner.

Fit a ring or D plate to the ceiling & hang the bag off it via the cup hook and you have done very very little damage to your plaster.

Also it worked out really cheap. A pack of the RW3 sheets or similar & you are in business
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Old 11-21-2020, 10:33 AM   #22
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my main problem is i have been listening on heaphones so far
its really hard to compare headphones and speakers

so i started by listening to some drum tracks i downloaded
and am listening to some studio tracks i did
theres definately a difference in hearing dynamic range
its hard to tell,...definately dont get ear fatigue
things sound different but i cant say its a specific frequency

things that have nice reverb in headphones seem to swim in it on skrs
vocals that sit nicely in the mix sound burried on speakers

the weird thing is sitting so close to the speakers
i cant move my head without losing the stereo feild

I think i need some kind of stand to get them off the table top
I wonder if i could repurpose some large candle holders
i dont know what else to do but get a couple of peices of granite

---------------------------------------------------------------


whats the resonant frequencey of plastic?,..the 3x5'' boxes are pretty soild. they weigh about 12 lb each. the rooms about 12x16 with concreet3e walls

I wasnt plannig on doing room treatment

When I record at home I just take the line out from my amp
so far so good. except ,...
I have some acoustic guitars that sound good in this room
!then i will have to choose btwn 150 mics!

.................................................. .......................
whoever mentioned getting powered speakers that was a good idea
these are super portable .

my whole set up now fits in a 10x16 box not counting stands
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Old 11-22-2020, 04:55 AM   #23
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Quote:
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whoever mentioned getting powered speakers that was a good idea
these are super portable .

my whole set up now fits in a 10x16 box not counting stands
Yes! Thats another good reason for active monitors. I'd have no where to put a fucking amp! Each to their own tho init

Headphones are renowned for being incredibly misleading when it comes to mixing. My personal vague guideline is that I'm allowed to do detail work (editing) and arrangements/song writing on headphones, but try to avoid mixing. Levels are usually incredibly misleading on headphones. Things that sound clear as day in headphones (vocals) are often buried when I hear the mix on speakers, or something that was perfect in headphones is WAY too loud in speakers (bass, usually, for me, or drums).

However, sometimes the alternative is true, listening on speakers, everything sounds ok, but in headphones, something is ear piercingly shrill.

Takes time to get to know both headphones and speakers, and the room. Low monitoring levels I find best to help out with any room problems.

If you can hear everything clearly in your mix at a low level, your on the right track. If all you can hear at a low level is the drums, or the bass or the something else, you might wanna adjust things.

Mike Senior's book Mixing Secrets for the Small Studio is golden.
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Old 11-22-2020, 04:49 PM   #24
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If you can hear everything clearly in your mix at a low level, your on the right track. If all you can hear at a low level is the drums, or the bass or the something else, you might wanna adjust things.
I learned to mix at low levels on near fields. It seems to reduce the influence of the room through proximity to the source and fewer reflections from the lower level. It also leads you to listen more carefully, and remain more objectively "on top" of the music and mix, rather than getting immersed inside it (as we hope are listeners will be.) If it sounds good that way, then turning up the volume fills out the sound and the necessary adjustments become clearer.
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Old 11-22-2020, 07:57 PM   #25
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tweeters in or out?
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Old 11-23-2020, 11:45 AM   #26
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Default new craigslist ad: wanted two 3x4x2 rocks,...must be perfectly level

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

after a couple of days im thinking theres a bass roll off listening to older mixes
thes 1_1/2inch speakers sound good in the low end generally
but older mixes seem to be missing the lowest octave

my friend tried mixing on these,
He said he was "just chasing the bass around"
i dont know what that actually means but i nodded

i guess 160 bux doesnt buy good enough computer speakers to mix on .
But i could have bought logitec speakers for 200

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Im really trying to consider what to do about my room ,..if anything

i made some room sound recordings on the flatest mic i could borrow
maybe some engineer is actualy ocd enough to listen to them

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde..._B?usp=sharing

i mean plz listen to them but i understand if you have better things to do
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Old 11-23-2020, 12:28 PM   #27
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you have all the right intentions.

you're in good hands. if there was a pair of acceptable* cheap monitors for mixing they would be well known.

I would recommend that you consider what monitors you'd really actually buy in 5-7 years from now when your job has those chances to save money up.

look at your next purchase as a step above what you have but below what you'd LOVE to afford, just due to the feature set, not the price or brand name, whatever would make you feel good.

if you go from budget speakers to budget speakers you won't progress.

if you go from budget to a large investment you wouldn't be using your noggin by learned as you go. your decision no matter what won't be informed.

I try to upgrade when I replace but when I make that *nice* purchase I make sure I'm informed on the purchase because of my own understanding of audio and mixing and what I love to do.

TBH everyone wants to mix but how great is just a kick ass sounding system?!??! if you or I were Mixers the Corporation would be picking up the bill. we're all audio fanatics. make a system that impresses YOU! a great system needs speaks for itself, right? you know it when you hear it.

anyway, my $.02.

and I like the term fidelity. what goes into a device should come out pristine. when I turn a knob it should do exactly as advertised, nothing more. no magic or coloring the sound. FLAT response. consumers today are used to 'magic' in their Beats headphones, nope, just make the thing flat, I'll fix it myself by playing proper content, no help needed, thanks, bugger off.
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Old 11-25-2020, 07:49 AM   #28
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Default I should have titled this thread 'Buying Reference Monitors'

I am mostly interested in the details of the guitar and if they step on the vocal
i double my guitar lines and on some speakers they just bleed together

on the audiengine2 (retail 350) everything sounds like i expect it to

hearing bass at different listening levels is intresting
sometimes i have to listen at very low levels

also i think if your room is good for recording its not good for mixing
some foam on the walls would really cut the reflections though

ill be tracking at a studio and doing overdubs here

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
KVR turned out to be the suprise winner (as the new ns10s?)
no one really is useing non studio audio speakers

0 people said ns10

i like the adam_10s too

when i went to the pro audio store good pro speakers started at 1000 but ones were 3-5k

ps.
thanks but if it will take 7 years to figure out mixing
ill just hire someone,m y buddy i ll give me a deal on mixing

he doesnt know anything about americana or old blues though
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Old 11-25-2020, 07:49 AM   #29
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Default heres the song my freind mixed

Colebrook Road - Bright Angle
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DkG...ew?usp=sharing

i would call these guys "new americana"
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Old 11-29-2020, 05:11 AM   #30
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Hm. Shame about the mix... Don`t use the guy they used!


EDIT: Forgot to add "even if he IS a friend of yours"
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Old 11-29-2020, 07:09 AM   #31
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"Im really trying to consider what to do about my room ,..if anything"

Ever heard the song Living in a Box?

Well your recordings sound like that might sound, to my ears.

You definitely need to do quite a bit to your concrete box. I suspect you will have to deaden it all over and then add a bit to give it some nice life.

I suggest you have a read of the suggested literature 'cos I'm no expert but I do know that good acoustics beat a speaker with eq to try and compensate. The better the monitor speaker the more room artifacts show up, IMHO. Can you not review your room treatment decision?
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Old 12-01-2020, 08:55 AM   #32
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Default living in a fishbowl

yea modern appartments are reverby. I think some large accoustic pannels
hung on the wall will take care of that , maybe some theatre curtains
on the windows]

i dont think ill be trying to mix in my concrete box
thanks for the honest assesment
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Old 12-01-2020, 10:47 AM   #33
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If you can get or make acoustic panels specifically for filling the corners of the room, those will get you the most bang for your buck in room sound difference. At least thats where I was told to start, so my info maybe wrong.

Freestanding, stackable, triangular shaped panels are the shit
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Old 12-01-2020, 10:49 AM   #34
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Default this kinda thing...

https://gikacoustics.co.uk/product/g...tics-tri-trap/
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Old 12-04-2020, 08:42 AM   #35
Rhonin
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Default i lost count of the amount of wall space I have

i ve decided this mic im using is not good for cajone
its a voc mic and seems to roll off volume pretty fast if your not 3" in front of it

this is more accurate of what a recording would sound like
crossroadblues
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XwZ...ew?usp=sharing

*its not more acurate i just added a different reverb

i cant stand the sound of my voice
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Old 12-04-2020, 09:13 AM   #36
Tone Deft
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Originally Posted by Rhonin View Post
he doesnt know anything about americana or old blues though
there's a story that Neil Young sets up PAs in two separate barns and cranks it up. he then goes outside and sits in his yard to listen to his new album to hear the mix.
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Old 12-04-2020, 11:13 AM   #37
valy
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Originally Posted by Tone Deft View Post
there's a story that Neil Young sets up PAs in two separate barns and cranks it up. he then goes outside and sits in his yard to listen to his new album to hear the mix.
That only works because he's listening at 192 KHz
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Old 12-04-2020, 12:34 PM   #38
panicaftermath
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That only works because he's listening at 192 KHz
And also because he cut the album using custom guitars made from the seasoned wood from his barn doors.

And when playback is controlled by his Pono player.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pono_(..._music_service)
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Old 12-06-2020, 03:57 PM   #39
Lynx_TWO
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Default Yamaha MSP7

Yamaha MSP7 studio monitors here.

They are also the best-kept secret for home theater.

They are pretty darn flat, front-ported, have decent power (they go loud enough to be used in a home theater) have decent bass extension (push them hard and you’ll feel the air); like I said, best kept secret for home theater. Watching “Underwater” and seeing people subconsciously react to the air being blown in their face during implosions due to the monitors being angled up to their faces 12 feet away is oh-so-satisfying.

They weren’t cheap brand new, the titanium tweeters go to 40kHz, and (I could be wrong here) I want to say Paul Klipsch designed them. You can get them used now for around $290 each, IF you can find a person willing to part with them. Doubt you’re going to find a Studio that’s getting rid of them and if they are, it’s because they bought monitors costing thousands-of-dollars each. In that case, cash in on the fool-and-her-money situation.
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Old 12-13-2020, 03:11 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by maxdembo View Post
If you can get or make acoustic panels specifically for filling the corners of the room, those will get you the most bang for your buck in room sound difference. At least thats where I was told to start, so my info maybe wrong.

Freestanding, stackable, triangular shaped panels are the shit
My wife sewed the cloth triangular sacks for mine - I filled them with triangles of RW3 and fitted plywood vented supports top and bottom. Hung them up in the corners on cuphooks and they do a great job. Nowhere near as expensive as those GIK ones, but they do have to make a living.

DIY thoroughly recommended.
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