Assigning MIDI notes to play from different locations?

Ears · 04-27-2023, 11:37 PM

Hi,

I'm really new to playing with ambisonics, so I apologise if it's unclear what I'm trying to do. I'm a noob in general at Reaper/audio.

I'm using the IEM suite right now, with my ambisonic master buss being sent to my binaural decoder buss. 7th order / 64 channels, this is setup correctly as far as I can hear and see from the EnergyVisualizer.

Now I'm trying to figure out how to assign individual midi notes to different locations in the sound space. I would like to use synths to play chords and arps and have each midi note play from its assigned location in the sound space.

I'm not sure if there's a dedicated freeware vst that can do this? I think I can do this with Acousmodules, using Spatkey and one of the spatialization plugins, but I can't work out how to set it up (if it's possible), and the walkthroughs aren't in my spoken language.

If anyone can help, that would help.

Thanks

ScuzzyEye · 04-28-2023, 05:06 AM

One problem is going to be overlapping notes. Unless you're playing a monophonic instrument, anything with stereo outputs will not be able to keep more than 1 note (or 2 with a lot of work) as individual audio streams that can then be panned, after the fact.

Sound Particles just released a (very much not freeware

) instrument, called SkyDust, that can pan each oscillator of each voice separately. It does have Ambisonic output too. But it suffers from nearly the same problem. While the voices (oscillators) are kept separate internally, they're panned and mixed into a space before output. That means you can't make them into something like Atmos objects. This ends up only working for "bed" or "scene" mixing. That's what Ambisonics is, but you still don't have full access to the voices for post-processing, even on the most advanced spatial synthesizer I've seen.

If you're good with mono, then it's a matter of moving the pan position based on note-on events (we might be able to help you come up with something here). But if you're wanting to spread a chord in different directions, you'll need multiple monophonic instances of the instrument, each playing one note, and then that note can panned. Finally, everything gets mixed together.

Ears · 04-28-2023, 09:15 AM

Thanks for the detailed reply, explains why I was unsuccessful on my search too. I saw SkyDust 3D, the price, quickly found my exit. Grabbed their free 3D audio eBook though.

Still interested in the monophonic route. Now I have a better idea of where to look I'll dig deeper into panning with note-on events to see if I can work something out. The mono chord idea is simple enough to implement.

Thanks again.

jm duchenne · 04-29-2023, 01:46 AM

Yes, as ScuzzyEyes said, the real problem is to have a synthesizer with separated outputs, at least according to the polyphony voices like the old instruments in the eighties.

The SpatKeys can easily do what you want but with a mono input.
You will need to send each output/note to a different input of a HRTF panner. I use generally the GRM-Tools SpaceVR or the Sparta Binauraliser because they support up to 64 inputs and they are free.
If you prefer you can go through an ambisonic encoding/decoding stage (IEM MultiEncoder + IEM AllRADecoder) but it will only make it more complicated and less efficient...

You can also try the Acousmodules synthesizers, but I am afraid that they will not be convenient for musical notes and chords playing ;-)

Ears · 04-29-2023, 07:23 PM

Thanks for taking the time to respond, I installed GRM SpaceVR and was able to get it to work.

And the synths are awesome, I've been playing around with them for the past couple of days and I always end up with something that sounds alive and otherworldly.

The Aggrega made me jump out of my skin when I realised what the lightbulb does after already messing with all the faders though, haha, that was almost the end of me.. Quite obvious what it does in hindsight.

jm duchenne · 04-29-2023, 11:33 PM

Ah, yes, sorry for the lack of proper documentations :-(
Did you get the "fast help" file? It has not been updated recently (there is not the MPESynth) but it must help a little...
http://acousmodules.free.fr/docs/Aco...s-FastHelp.pdf

Ears · 04-30-2023, 09:08 AM

It's ok, I still would have gone head first into the lightbulb with all the manuals in the world.

The fast help PDF's will help a lot, I've just downloaded them all. I immediately fell in love building in a 3d sound space, and missed the help files in an excitement to play with all the plugins available.

Thanks for the vast library of plugins and making them accessible to all.

04-27-2023, 11:37 PM	#1
Ears Human being with feelings Join Date: Sep 2022 Posts: 150	Assigning MIDI notes to play from different locations? Hi, I'm really new to playing with ambisonics, so I apologise if it's unclear what I'm trying to do. I'm a noob in general at Reaper/audio. I'm using the IEM suite right now, with my ambisonic master buss being sent to my binaural decoder buss. 7th order / 64 channels, this is setup correctly as far as I can hear and see from the EnergyVisualizer. Now I'm trying to figure out how to assign individual midi notes to different locations in the sound space. I would like to use synths to play chords and arps and have each midi note play from its assigned location in the sound space. I'm not sure if there's a dedicated freeware vst that can do this? I think I can do this with Acousmodules, using Spatkey and one of the spatialization plugins, but I can't work out how to set it up (if it's possible), and the walkthroughs aren't in my spoken language. If anyone can help, that would help. Thanks

04-29-2023, 01:46 AM	#4
jm duchenne Human being with feelings Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: France Posts: 915	Yes, as ScuzzyEyes said, the real problem is to have a synthesizer with separated outputs, at least according to the polyphony voices like the old instruments in the eighties. The SpatKeys can easily do what you want but with a mono input. You will need to send each output/note to a different input of a HRTF panner. I use generally the GRM-Tools SpaceVR or the Sparta Binauraliser because they support up to 64 inputs and they are free. If you prefer you can go through an ambisonic encoding/decoding stage (IEM MultiEncoder + IEM AllRADecoder) but it will only make it more complicated and less efficient... You can also try the Acousmodules synthesizers, but I am afraid that they will not be convenient for musical notes and chords playing ;-) __________________ Acousmodules: multichannel / spatial audio plugins http://acousmodules.free.fr

04-29-2023, 11:33 PM	#6
jm duchenne Human being with feelings Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: France Posts: 915	Ah, yes, sorry for the lack of proper documentations :-( Did you get the "fast help" file? It has not been updated recently (there is not the MPESynth) but it must help a little... http://acousmodules.free.fr/docs/Aco...s-FastHelp.pdf __________________ Acousmodules: multichannel / spatial audio plugins http://acousmodules.free.fr

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04-28-2023, 05:06 AM	#2
ScuzzyEye Human being with feelings Join Date: Apr 2021 Posts: 522	One problem is going to be overlapping notes. Unless you're playing a monophonic instrument, anything with stereo outputs will not be able to keep more than 1 note (or 2 with a lot of work) as individual audio streams that can then be panned, after the fact. Sound Particles just released a (very much not freeware ) instrument, called SkyDust, that can pan each oscillator of each voice separately. It does have Ambisonic output too. But it suffers from nearly the same problem. While the voices (oscillators) are kept separate internally, they're panned and mixed into a space before output. That means you can't make them into something like Atmos objects. This ends up only working for "bed" or "scene" mixing. That's what Ambisonics is, but you still don't have full access to the voices for post-processing, even on the most advanced spatial synthesizer I've seen. If you're good with mono, then it's a matter of moving the pan position based on note-on events (we might be able to help you come up with something here). But if you're wanting to spread a chord in different directions, you'll need multiple monophonic instances of the instrument, each playing one note, and then that note can panned. Finally, everything gets mixed together.

04-28-2023, 09:15 AM	#3
Ears Human being with feelings Join Date: Sep 2022 Posts: 150	Thanks for the detailed reply, explains why I was unsuccessful on my search too. I saw SkyDust 3D, the price, quickly found my exit. Grabbed their free 3D audio eBook though. Still interested in the monophonic route. Now I have a better idea of where to look I'll dig deeper into panning with note-on events to see if I can work something out. The mono chord idea is simple enough to implement. Thanks again.

04-29-2023, 07:23 PM	#5
Ears Human being with feelings Join Date: Sep 2022 Posts: 150	Thanks for taking the time to respond, I installed GRM SpaceVR and was able to get it to work. And the synths are awesome, I've been playing around with them for the past couple of days and I always end up with something that sounds alive and otherworldly. The Aggrega made me jump out of my skin when I realised what the lightbulb does after already messing with all the faders though, haha, that was almost the end of me.. Quite obvious what it does in hindsight.

04-30-2023, 09:08 AM	#7
Ears Human being with feelings Join Date: Sep 2022 Posts: 150	It's ok, I still would have gone head first into the lightbulb with all the manuals in the world. The fast help PDF's will help a lot, I've just downloaded them all. I immediately fell in love building in a 3d sound space, and missed the help files in an excitement to play with all the plugins available. Thanks for the vast library of plugins and making them accessible to all.