Reaper/BFD3 any change to cymbal note causes them to choke

Dean Roddey · 03-05-2021, 07:39 PM

I do hardly any MIDI editing, but for songwriting purposes sometimes I do, just to figure out how I want something to go. But I'm having real issues with it.

Every single time I touch any cymbal note in any way, it will start choking that note on playback, i.e. I get maybe a couple hundred milliseconds then it stops. Every time, without exception. I can delete it and create new one and that will choke. I can copy another one there and it will choke. If I move the start/end point of the note, it will start choking.

If I undo it back to the original, it works fine.

Reaper shows all lanes with data and the only active lanes are velocity off/on and the CC for the continuously variable high hat which would be completely unrelated and isn't changing in these cases anyway. The velocity values are clearly good and are not being changed when the note is moved or its length adjusted.

So it cannot be any choke CCs floating around or velocity issues or anything like that.

No other types of notes are choked if changed. Hihat and drums don't. They aren't nearly as sustained but it would be obvious if they were cutting out after a couple hundred millis which is what the cymbals do. Cymbals do it on all articulations.

This is really starting to bother me because it's just so inexplicable and happens every single time. It makes the editing capabilities pretty useless.

Anybody have any idea what might be causing this.

ernzo · 03-06-2021, 12:57 AM

Haveyou tried setting the plug in Buggy Compatibility mode?

Dean Roddey · 03-06-2021, 10:31 AM

No, not done that. I'll give it a try. Thanks.

Hopefully there aren't any significant performance implications to that, in case it should be the answer.

Funkybot · 03-06-2021, 11:28 AM

Do you have "Preview RAM audio only" checked in the BFD3 Preferences -> Engine section? That will exhibit the behavior you described.

Dean Roddey · 03-06-2021, 12:10 PM

No, that's not checked.

Amberience · 03-06-2021, 01:27 PM

Do you have choke on aftertouch enabled? Is there any aftertouch data in your midi? Can you post a Reaper project that demonstrates the issue?

Dean Roddey · 03-06-2021, 02:01 PM

I'm using a TD17 kit to drive BFD and of course it does support choking cymbals, but I wasn't doing that and the original notes would have been choked if that were the case, right? So even if I did it accidentally it has to be there in the MIDI CC data in order to do anything. But there's nothing but velocity on/off and continuous hihat pedal CCs, and that's it.

I could post the project but I don't think it would be very helpful since you'd need BFD3, the kit pieces I'm using, the key map that I'm using, etc...

maxdembo · 03-06-2021, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

I'm using a TD17 kit to drive BFD and of course it does support choking cymbals, but I wasn't doing that and the original notes would have been choked if that were the case, right? So even if I did it accidentally it has to be there in the MIDI CC data in order to do anything. But there's nothing but velocity on/off and continuous hihat pedal CCs, and that's it.

I could post the project but I don't think it would be very helpful since you'd need BFD3, the kit pieces I'm using, the key map that I'm using, etc...

Considering Amberience is part of the BFD developers team, I think two out of those three things wouldnt be an issue.

Dean Roddey · 03-06-2021, 04:02 PM

Oh, OK. I didn't know.

Well, while I have his attention, I wanted to ask... On Windows, are you guys opening the sample files with FILE_FLAG_NO_BUFFERING enabled? It looks like not, so all of these very large files are getting pushed into the Windows file cache, which just eats up a lot of memory and doubles the amount of moving around all that data. Obviously that used memory will be relinquished if needed, but it would be a lot cleaner if you didn't force the OS to cache it, since you guys are caching it yourselves.

There are a couple restrictions on the buffer alignment and size when you do that, but it looks like you are using a set of fixed buffers anyway (we define how many) so that probably wouldn't be an issue.

I think it would improve load times potentially, and put less strain on systems with less memory.

Amberience · 03-09-2021, 04:06 AM

I'm actually only half of a developer

But yes we do use that flag, since BFD1 according to the main developer.

As for the choke issue, if there is no aftertouch data in the midi, then it's probably not that. Try increasing the number of voices in the Engine preferences, try something fairly high like 192 or 196 and see how you get on.

Dean Roddey · 03-10-2021, 05:28 PM

OK, I'll give it a try.

Dean Roddey · 03-10-2021, 07:16 PM

Oh well, the higher voice count didn't do anything.

BTW, turns out the reason I thought maybe you guys weren't disabling caching was that, I got a new little laptop for music work, and in this first new project on the new machine I loaded the only two plugins I use (BFD and a Vienna piano synth.) I clicked the power button on the Vienna synth after making sure it was working, and assumed it was offline, but it still is loading its vast number of samples.

You have to actually mark it offline in the inserts section to prevent it from loading without removing it. That's why I thought there was inordinate amounts of memory being used.

Oh well, too many details, too few brain cells.

maxdembo · 03-11-2021, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

Oh well, the higher voice count didn't do anything.

BTW, turns out the reason I thought maybe you guys weren't disabling caching was that, I got a new little laptop for music work, and in this first new project on the new machine I loaded the only two plugins I use (BFD and a Vienna piano synth.) I clicked the power button on the Vienna synth after making sure it was working, and assumed it was offline, but it still is loading its vast number of samples.

You have to actually mark it offline in the inserts section to prevent it from loading without removing it. That's why I thought there was inordinate amounts of memory being used.

Oh well, too many details, too few brain cells.

Ok, so youre loading two vsti's that use a lot of memory for playback, and a lot of disc streaming.

Is your BFD problem disappearing when you dont load Vienna synth at all?

Dean Roddey · 03-11-2021, 03:41 PM

Well, it's now in fully bypassed mode, so it's as good as not loaded. And that didn't change anything.

Dean Roddey · 03-11-2021, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amberience

I'm actually only half of a developer

But yes we do use that flag, since BFD1 according to the main developer.

As for the choke issue, if there is no aftertouch data in the midi, then it's probably not that. Try increasing the number of voices in the Engine preferences, try something fairly high like 192 or 196 and see how you get on.

I could do a small project that demonstrates the problem and send it to you. Or I probably can. All us software people know how these things like to never happen when you want them to. But, it's been very consistent, so I imagine it would do it even in the simplest of projects.