04-25-2021, 02:54 PM | #1 |
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Interesting discussion on KVR Lv2 hmm
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04-25-2021, 05:44 PM | #2 | |
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Steinberg are being assholes with their kill VST2 licensing BS and need to be widely replaced by an open standard like LV2. I was kind of surprised by some of the developers who early in the thread questioned LV2's validity or capabilities, but then later in the thread after reading some LV2 docs are now praising it as being somewhat elegant. |
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04-25-2021, 06:07 PM | #3 |
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That was what I found most interesting, seems it could be a viable solution to what Steinberg has planned? Would not surprise me if that was part of why Reaper now supports lv2? Thanks Justin
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04-25-2021, 07:14 PM | #4 |
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So far I've added the LSP suite of plugins in LV2 format, and just grabbed the Dragonfly reverbs in LV2 format as well to replace the VST versions of those two sets of plugins that I was using.
I have already been using some of the x42 plugins. Using the limiter in several projects, and I've put the x42 guitar tuner on Guitar Rig track templates that I setup for guitar and bass. Some of the Harrison plugins have become regulars, too like their gate and reverb LV2 plugins. I'll prolly buy those now that Steinberg wants me to stop using VST plugins. |
04-25-2021, 08:21 PM | #5 |
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thx for the link...not very promising
@Glennbo - only asking as from what have read of your posts (and help to me) I think you have a "finger on the pules of these things", how is the VST3 type looking for Linux? Are there linux wrappers for those, or is it WINE all the way? |
04-25-2021, 09:44 PM | #6 |
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As for Windows VST3 plugins, I only have one which is the TBPro Audio meter, and it seems to be working okay in WINE, bridged with Yabridge. When I installed all my Windows plugins I only installed the VST2 versions. Much later I installed the TBPro meter so I got a VST3 with it.
I have quite a few native Linux VST3 plugins and most of them work, but I avoid them and use the VST2 versions instead. From now on, I'll be avoiding both VST2 and VST3 as much as I can, and use LV2 plugins when possible. |
04-25-2021, 10:18 PM | #7 |
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I'm having a hard time, as JUCE support for VST3 is lacking Host specific communication (which Reaper of course does provide), while it works fine with VST2.
(JUCE does support VST3 on Linux.) -Michael Last edited by mschnell; 04-26-2021 at 03:15 AM. |
04-26-2021, 01:59 AM | #8 |
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I think audio company will develope their own plugin format in their product rather than using lv2 format.
I am also happy to see everyone hate Steinberg. haha. |
04-26-2021, 04:11 AM | #9 | |
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04-26-2021, 06:30 AM | #10 | |
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Well, I had enough of Microsoft and look where I am now. Removed seven copies of Windows and replaced it with Linux on all the machines in my house. Steinberg is on my shit list now, and I will begin actively avoiding VST/VST3 if there is any other alternative for all future plugin purchases. Harrison's offerings are all decent LV2 plugins, and a couple of those will probably be my next plugin buys. |
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04-26-2021, 07:21 AM | #11 |
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Everything I have read so far about this seems to only speak of Vst2 plugins.
Does make me wonder when this will affect hosts that support Vst2? I am not giving up any VST2's I have they all run perfect, do what I need and provided I have a host that supports them will continue to work. Machines are not a problem! have thirteen i5 Dell and Lenovo and half a dozen i3 lenovo's that even had pci slots so all my 20 year old Maudio cards still work fine. All have a clean Win7 installed so for me Vst2 will live on for a long time. Although those machines are not the latest greatest, they are each like a piece of gear to me. None of the plugins I have purchased have funky registrations so no need for online activation. I have always went for the Vst2 its only over the past six months or so that the tide turned to where new plugins are Vst3 so I have only a few. But back to Lv2! Sure would be nice if there were a plugin SDK that was truly an open standard. With some of the minds I am seeing looking at Lv2 and after reading the long term goals from the Lv2 creator it just might work. Vst3 will no doubt continue as it is too big to just go away. But in some ways it seems Steinberg is shooting them selves in the foot by their actions. Time will tell? |
04-26-2021, 10:10 AM | #12 |
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well, this is the linux department, but lv2 runs just as well under win |
04-26-2021, 10:28 AM | #13 | |
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But myself have never seen any Win or Mac lv2's? Was why I posted here in the Linux Dept. If you think others may be interested maybe I should have posted in General Discussion Forum? Just updated my Win7 machine to Reaper 6.28 and was surprised\delighted to see Lv2 in the plugin options. Silly me was using v4.78 because it ran my plugins so well and was afraid the latest version may not do so well even though I have a license for v6-7. Again silly me updated yesterday and all my plugins run perfect in v6.28 Yay |
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04-26-2021, 10:42 AM | #14 |
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It sure sounded to me from the KVR thread that we are in some kind of "grace period" where makers of DAWs are being granted permission to have VST2 support. Also, it sounded like to me that if a developer has not signed the new worded license agreement, that they can continue with VST2, but might start hitting problems with VST3.
Urs from U-He said in that thread that he was not signing the license agreement, which makes me wonder how developers of DAW software like REAPER would fare if they signed it with the new clauses. Specifically the we can terminate your license if we want to at any time, and you will only support VST3 stuff, which sounds like Microsoft strong arm tactics. What happens for instance if say Justin signed the new license agreement and Steinberg decides the grace period is over for developers of DAW software, REAPER with only VST3 support or lose your entire license to include any version of VST? |
04-26-2021, 11:04 AM | #15 | |
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LV2 is, and isn't cross-platform compatible in the same way VST is, and isn't cross-platform compatible. Plugins can be compiled as Windows LV2, Linux LV2, or Mac LV2. But a plugin made for one OS won't work under another.
I read that thread, including this part: Quote:
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04-26-2021, 11:53 AM | #16 |
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Not sure if it is ok? but I cross posted in the General Discussion Forum
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=252739 James, that I was aware of kind of goes without saying for the different platforms. |
04-26-2021, 12:30 PM | #17 | |
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I just wanted to clear that up for anyone reading this thread. It's been misunderstood before.
I also thought this part of the VST3 SDK terms and conditions was cute: Quote:
The legality of these things seems suspect at best too. |
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04-26-2021, 01:49 PM | #18 | |
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Unfortunately that particular VST, for me, figures in pretty much every Sonar project I am porting over to Reaper Just a supplementary Q (and sorry for the sidetrack here), Yarbridge, LinVST or LADSPA ? I see you mentioned Yarbridge, haven't heard of that one. Is it better than the other two? |
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04-26-2021, 02:18 PM | #19 | |
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04-26-2021, 04:41 PM | #20 |
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Cool, I've read good things about that plug!
So Yarbridge and LinVST are about the same horse just different colours, yeah? |
04-26-2021, 07:07 PM | #21 |
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I've done a few longer writeups for my motivations for working on yabridge before, but in short my goal with yabridge has always been to bring Windows plugin bridging to the next level. In terms of plugin support of course, but even more so in terms of user experience and feature support. Because while Wine plugin bridging has been a thing for years (thanks to the fantastic work of a number of dedicated developers), I always felt like it wasn't quite as good as it could have been. So with yabridge, the ultimate goal is to basically do for audio plugin bridging what DXVK has done for gaming. Yabridge is currently also the only way to do real VST3 plugin bridging, which gets you access to a number of fatures that VST2 plugins don't support and they also tend to perform slightly better than their VST2 counterparts because of the way audio processing in VST3 works.
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04-26-2021, 08:19 PM | #22 | |
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B4 II.dll is ok. The error I get is LinVst version 4.2 Loading /home/osxuser/.wine/drive_c/Program Files (x86)/Native Instruments/B4 II/VSTPlugins/B4 II FX.dll dssi-vst-server: ERROR: Plugin does not support processReplacing (required) Failed to load dll! |
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04-26-2021, 08:40 PM | #23 | |
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04-26-2021, 08:48 PM | #24 | |
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It's not real, it's a wrapper. A real vst3 plugin would be a Linux Native vst3 if someone wanted to put the real term onto vst3. "real" sounds like a marketing term. It's like saying that wacvst (that Linvst is based on) was the first "real" vst2 wine bridge, who cares about "real". If you mean that Linvst3 is fake and your vst3 bridge is real, then LinVst3 is a few years old and Ardour and Waveform and maybe other daws did not support native vst3 at that time so a vst2 to vst3 bridge was the way to go. Last edited by osxmidi; 04-26-2021 at 08:56 PM. |
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04-26-2021, 09:04 PM | #25 |
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Most of my plugins are vst3 and lv2 because vst2 has been forced out by Steinberg.
Vst3 is not that different from vst2 except for a few added features that a lot of plugin devs don't use, Steinberg had a vst3 to vst2 compile option in their SDK for instance and vst2 to vst3 wrappers can exist, it's possible because vst3 is not that different from vst2 (except for some features). Steinberg could have made a vst2 backwards compatible vst3 but they didn't, instead they went for a Microsoft COM based model for vst3 and have now pushed out vst2. Maybe it's due to Steinberg competing with au and pro tools plugins, but a lot of devs don't like vst3 as can be seen at KVR etc and the vst3 pickup since it was introduced has been minimal, so now Steinberg is forcing vst3 on users whether they like it or not. Last edited by osxmidi; 04-26-2021 at 09:20 PM. |
04-26-2021, 09:48 PM | #26 | |
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Anyway Robbert is in the Netherlands. I don't think he intended offense by using the word "real" in that way. |
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04-26-2021, 11:52 PM | #27 | |
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Something like yabridge vst3 is a vst3 to vst3 wrapper. No wrapper can be real imo. If I called LinVst a real vst2 wrapper, it's meaningless. Yabridge vst3 to vst3 wrapper is the first for Linux but a wrapper can not be real imo. JUCE was maybe the first for vst3 wrapping code and they don't use first or real. The whole idea of a wrapper is to fake it, make it look real when it isn't. Faking vst2 to vst3 or faking vst3 to vst3 is not real. If a vst2 to vst3 wrapper is fake and a vst3 to vst3 wrapper is real, then I don't think that is quite right. Just my opinion by the way. Last edited by osxmidi; 04-27-2021 at 12:06 AM. |
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04-27-2021, 04:55 AM | #28 | |
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I do of course understand the added benefit of having LinVst3 be able to wrap Windows VST3 plugins in a Linux VST2 plugin since for a couple of years only Bitwig and REAPER supported VST3 plugins on Linux, but I do believe that yabridge's approach with one-to-one VST3 plugin bridging is the future here. Last edited by robbert-vdh; 04-27-2021 at 04:59 AM. Reason: Prevent the forum from parsing the :p in the middle of ::process() |
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04-27-2021, 05:59 AM | #29 | |
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https://forums.steinberg.net/t/vst-3...-faq/201638/13 This will not go away, I don't think. They don't really want to kill all the old projects people did by forcing DAW developers to remove VST2 hosting support from them. That would be quite horrific. I don't think they're that dumb to actually try and do that. This just means no new VST2s will ever appear, new plugin developers will be allowed making VST3s only. That's a well designed joke. VST3 is bloated, over-engineered, doesn't cover all cases VST2 worked just fine with (MIDI output? Receiving raw MIDI data? Destroying serial nature of MIDI by breaking up note events from CCs and so on being received through different means?), and I mean if after 13 years there's still no fast and widespread adoption happening and Steiny had to pull legal means to force adoption doesn't show how bad it is, I don't know what will. The only good thing about VST3 is that it is dual-licensed as commercial and GPL3, allowing open source projects. That and multiple MIDI busses. Everything else is just shit, could've been added to VST2 without problems (and less bloat).
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04-27-2021, 06:35 AM | #30 |
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There must be a reason why Native Instruments strictly sticks to VST2.
-Michael |
04-27-2021, 07:51 AM | #31 | |
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04-27-2021, 08:25 AM | #32 | |
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04-27-2021, 09:07 AM | #33 | |
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