Old 08-27-2021, 04:12 PM   #81
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You completely missed my point on having to manually create lanes and the struggle in promoting tracks.
Neither i never saw any “threat” in this awesome new functionality.
I just stated that marking PT as “perfection” is not good for developing a BETTER way to comp.

To be clear, nowdays i think no-one works through an entire song in “one shot”recording passes.
I usually work with the talents in sections (verse, bridge, chorus etc..) doing multiple takes even in multiple days.
I have songs with up to 20 takes per section based on producers requests.

Never found any issue in working with takes.

And working in ProTools was just fine, but not great, if you know what i mean.

BTW i shared my personal opinion hoping in a better way to handle multiple recording passes.
In my opinion the more ergonomic and fast it is, the better we work.

I think everyone wins if we share good ideas and experiences to help develop a better environment for recording and producing, and that was the spirit of my post.
I never said “stop everything, in the name of take system!”
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Old 08-27-2021, 05:06 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjoe View Post
You completely missed my point on having to manually create lanes and the struggle in promoting tracks.
Neither i never saw any “threat” in this awesome new functionality.
I just stated that marking PT as “perfection” is not good for developing a BETTER way to comp.

To be clear, nowdays i think no-one works through an entire song in “one shot”recording passes.
I usually work with the talents in sections (verse, bridge, chorus etc..) doing multiple takes even in multiple days.
I have songs with up to 20 takes per section based on producers requests.

Never found any issue in working with takes.

And working in ProTools was just fine, but not great, if you know what i mean.

BTW i shared my personal opinion hoping in a better way to handle multiple recording passes.
In my opinion the more ergonomic and fast it is, the better we work.

I think everyone wins if we share good ideas and experiences to help develop a better environment for recording and producing, and that was the spirit of my post.
I never said “stop everything, in the name of take system!”
I feel kinda pathetic offering any more input honestly, there's literally years worth of mockups, gifs demonstrating the pitfalls, write-ups proposing the best way to retain as much of the current system while bringing functionality in-line with the major DAWs (swipe-comping etc), and unfortunately with no structured dialogue or sense that it's being heard, it's just a bunch of noise.

Hope this new lanes stuff leads us to better comping, not sure that's what it's meant for but one can hope.
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Old 08-27-2021, 05:10 PM   #83
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Last kick at the can : here's a literal road-map to creating swipe-comping literally today with the tools we have, no new functionality required.

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Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
Here's how it could be implemented today, without adding anything special.

1. Initial Comp


2. Razor Edit "swipe" over desired section, mouse over desired take


3. Split at RE edges


4. Explode takes out to new tracks


5. Heal all takes to length of RE (keeps original takes and Melodyne happy!)


6. Implode takes back into original track, make active "desired take" from step 2.


...for reference, the original "swipe":


That process is obviously scriptable because I just did it by hand. Even better: implemented natively.

Ideally 4/5/6 would be done "internally" without having to create all these new tracks. This is just me doing the necessary steps in the only way available to us. Maybe using lanes!!!

Thoughts?
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Old 08-27-2021, 05:35 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjoe View Post
To me the protools playlist system is the most clunky and bad reference [...] i much prefer Reaper takes and comps instead of playlists[...] Playlists are track based, and that’s a limitation when you need to audition and switch the comps for certain sections on the same track.
[...]don’t be so focused on protools style playlists[...]
The Track Lanes discussion is precisely about adding track based functionality which is otherwise missing from Reaper. If you have an idea that would make Reaper better as it pertains to Track Lanes, please share. But also see that you entered the conversation by arguing against a key idea without offering anything constructive as you suggest was the spirit of your post.
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Old 08-28-2021, 01:11 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
I feel kinda pathetic offering any more input honestly, there's literally years worth of mockups, gifs demonstrating the pitfalls, write-ups proposing the best way to retain as much of the current system while bringing functionality in-line with the major DAWs (swipe-comping etc), and unfortunately with no structured dialogue or sense that it's being heard, it's just a bunch of noise.

Hope this new lanes stuff leads us to better comping, not sure that's what it's meant for but one can hope.
I got the same impression and I hope that this isn‘t just another useless thread.
Thanks for your workaround!
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Old 09-06-2021, 04:52 AM   #86
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shows 2 lanes after undo


shows 2 lanes after freeze
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Old 09-06-2021, 07:18 AM   #87
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something wrong with undo

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Old 09-06-2021, 07:27 AM   #88
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by design or bug?
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Old 09-06-2021, 07:55 AM   #89
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maybe a bug
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Old 09-06-2021, 05:42 PM   #90
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I was ignored in the pre-release forum so I'll drop this here.

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If you have a fixed lanes track minimized, press play, then expand the track, the lane numbered tags don't appear until you pause again. Don't know if this is designed this way, seems unlikely to me.

https://i.imgur.com/OKCVOmS.mp4

Also, when copying items from one fixed lanes enabled track to a new one, it doesn't copy the fact that they're in lanes until you toggle them again and I think IMO that it should be a default or at least an option to pass the items as they are (in lanes) in the last track. Also notice how it adds an extra lane but not using the first one.

https://i.imgur.com/otciSlF.mp4
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Old 09-07-2021, 06:12 AM   #91
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If you have a fixed lanes track minimized, press play, then expand the track, the lane numbered tags don't appear until you pause again
How exactly are you minimizing and expanding the track height?
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Old 09-07-2021, 06:38 AM   #92
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Quote:
If you have a fixed lanes track minimized, press play, then expand the track, the lane numbered tags don't appear until you pause again. Don't know if this is designed this way, seems unlikely to me.
maybe because of this
Quote:
v6.33+dev0726 - July 26 2021
# Media item lanes: don't draw lane labels while continuous scrolling is active
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Old 09-07-2021, 12:22 PM   #93
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Old 09-07-2021, 02:20 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
How exactly are you minimizing and expanding the track height?
Using the View: Zoom vertically action on my mousewheel but I seem yo have not noticed what Embass is pointing out in:

v6.33+dev0726 - July 26 2021
# Media item lanes: don't draw lane labels while continuous scrolling is active

So that was probably my bad.
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Old 10-12-2021, 01:38 PM   #95
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What's the use of these/what uses have people found?
Trying to understand better, for potential scripts.

They seem mostly identical to having a parent track, with a bunch of child tracks that have all changes synced (IE, in volume/pan/whatever).

I've been using them to put variants of the same clip in a sequence, to save space, like:

Code:
Tracks |    5        9         12
--------------------------------
Sax    | 1  [Sax1.wav]
       | 2            [Sax2.wav]
Other  | [Something.wav]
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Old 10-12-2021, 01:47 PM   #96
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I normally use it for

Comping
Keeping different Versions of a track
Build sounds

Although I know other tasks might fit well. I think one strong point of lanes is they are flexible for finding jobs to it. Curious to see other things it might fit
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Old 10-12-2021, 02:19 PM   #97
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I think one strong point of lanes is they are flexible for finding jobs to it. Curious to see other things it might fit
We should compile a community use-list and keep track of things people figure out they are useful for =D
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Old 10-13-2021, 01:30 AM   #98
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My primary use case is with a multi-output sampler. For convenience, I want several percussion samples hosted in the same sampler instance. But to make arrangement easier, I still want separate midi items for the different instruments.

I could easily accomplish this by having the sampler on a folder track and the midi items on individual tracks within it, but I find that having them all on one track is just organisationally neater and easier to manage.
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Old 03-03-2022, 11:43 AM   #99
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how does one delete empty lanes?
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Old 03-03-2022, 11:50 AM   #100
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It shouldn't have empty lanes in the last lanes. So if there are empty lanes in the middle I think you need to move items to upoards lanes

Idk if is there some action to remove it already
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Old 03-03-2022, 01:12 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daniellumertz View Post
It shouldn't have empty lanes in the last lanes. So if there are empty lanes in the middle I think you need to move items to upoards lanes

Idk if is there some action to remove it already
ahhhh nice! thanks!

yes, there were empty lanes in the middle.

makes sense
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Old 03-03-2022, 03:25 PM   #102
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ok, so I know we don't have that neato swipey thing anymore, but I wanted to give lanes a try for takes again.

I am wondering if anyone has any workflow for this - I really like how it displays, obviously it will get a little crazy, but I figure if I comp as I go, I can get something workable.

I guess what I would look for is:

- a tool that can mute and solo pieces of lanes I do by razor edit
- a way to mute or solo entire lanes
- an easy way to splice them up and put them in the "Finished" lane to clear out extra lanes

This is what I'm about to work with:

any suggestions/actions would be great. I know this is crazy.



https://www.dropbox.com/s/sq0qk99lxb...72521.jpg?dl=0
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Old 03-03-2022, 07:54 PM   #103
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although it wont use Razor Edits maybe this script help you. I have been using with the new lanes system and works very good

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=242512


Right now it is a little difficult to set install it I will try to update it on reapack soon
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Old 03-03-2022, 08:40 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daniellumertz View Post
although it wont use Razor Edits maybe this script help you. I have been using with the new lanes system and works very good

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=242512


Right now it is a little difficult to set install it I will try to update it on reapack soon
neato! thanks, I'll check it out
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Old 03-04-2022, 12:59 AM   #105
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Exclusive solo would be really great here
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Old 03-04-2022, 05:25 AM   #106
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Just tried the lanes feature from the newest Cubase 12 and I was blown away!
On fixed lanes mode it keeps the track in place and creates a nested folder for lanes.
So on the main track it's showing the comps from the lanes below and with the comp tool you can swipe comp parts of the items. Doing this, it creates splits to the items on lanes and then while the comp tool is armed, you can left click to choose parts on different lanes.
The best part is that when i disable the comp tool and choose the selection tool/marquee, each time i select and move an item from fixed lanes, it automatically shows up on main track!!
This is amazing because you can edit the items on fixed lanes, like move, split, stretch them etc.. without worrying if it overlaps with another item, since it automatically shows up on main track!
Would really love to have the same behavior in Reaper too, (please Schwa?) so i made a gif:

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Old 03-04-2022, 06:22 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagelis View Post
Just tried the lanes feature from the newest Cubase 12 and I was blown away!
still not ideal I think as you need to touch the raw material. Perhaps it's not so crucial for a person that edits his own stuff. But when it comes to recording other people, they always want to be able to listen to the raw takes they did at all times. So the opportunity to leave the raw material as it is is quite important. as far as I know only Pro Tools offers this to perfection. You have similar lanes to what cubase shows here but the top line does NOT automatically show the comp. In PT it is just another lane where you can copy from below. So you swipe, hit the "copy to uppermost playlist" button and get a duplicate of the item. Perhaps that seems to be inconvenient first but it allows to edit that "main playlist" as much as you like while keeping the option to listen to all the takes you recorded (you simply leave the raw material completely untouched). Of course you can duplicate that main playlist and do an alternative edit for example (Every playlist can be the "main playlist"), so you can easily compare multiple edits. And: "could we listen to take 4 again" isn't a problem at all...

(btw: No, Pro Tools is not my main DAW and it is not the first DAW I used. I hate it but that feature is just the best solution in my opinion and it is one of the reasons why PT is "industry standard")

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Old 03-04-2022, 06:32 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Gass n Klang View Post
still not ideal I think as you need to touch the raw material. Perhaps it's not so crucial for a person that edits his own stuff. But when it comes to recording other people, they always want to be able to listen to the raw takes they did at all times. So the opportunity to leave the raw material as it is is quite important. as far as I know only Pro Tools offers this to perfection. You have similar lanes to what cubase shows here but the top line does NOT automatically show the comp. In PT it is just another lane where you can copy from below. So you swipe, hit the "copy to uppermost playlist" button and get a duplicate of the item. Perhaps that seems to be inconvenient first but it allows to edit that "main playlist" as much as you like while keeping the option to listen to all the takes you recorded (you simply leave the raw material completely untouched). Of course you can duplicate that main playlist and do an alternative edit for example (Every playlist can be the "main playlist"), so you can easily compare multiple edits. And: "could we listen to take 4 again" isn't a problem at all...
Personally I'd prefer to show them automatically on main lane without needing to hit another action, it's way faster if this is happening automatically. Because you can edit in any way the items on lanes without worrying what is audible.
The approach you 're mentioning seems like it needs more actions to accomplish what you want. The comping I did was only with the default modifier and by switching only from the comping tool to the selection tool.
I guess for your purpose it would be better if there was an option to save different comps from lanes, and switch between them. That way you can save as many "playlists" you want? Curious if you could make a gif and show what you mean better.
I think the combination of both features would be the best.
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Old 03-04-2022, 06:51 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Gass n Klang View Post
still not ideal I think as you need to touch the raw material. Perhaps it's not so crucial for a person that edits his own stuff. But when it comes to recording other people, they always want to be able to listen to the raw takes they did at all times. So the opportunity to leave the raw material as it is is quite important. as far as I know only Pro Tools offers this to perfection. You have similar lanes to what cubase shows here but the top line does NOT automatically show the comp. In PT it is just another lane where you can copy from below. So you swipe, hit the "copy to uppermost playlist" button and get a duplicate of the item. Perhaps that seems to be inconvenient first but it allows to edit that "main playlist" as much as you like while keeping the option to listen to all the takes you recorded (you simply leave the raw material completely untouched). Of course you can duplicate that main playlist and do an alternative edit for example (Every playlist can be the "main playlist"), so you can easily compare multiple edits. And: "could we listen to take 4 again" isn't a problem at all...

(btw: No, Pro Tools is not my main DAW and it is not the first DAW I used. I hate it but that feature is just the best solution in my opinion and it is one of the reasons why PT is "industry standard")

Thank you for this video (was looking for something like this), will be helpful alot. BTW just one question. Does MAIN version get duplicated to version 1 when you initially make playlist (since MAIN becomes "COMP")?
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Old 03-04-2022, 07:17 AM   #110
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@Gass n Klang, I just found that there are track versions in Cubase too. Is this what you want and would it fit your needs?

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Old 03-04-2022, 07:39 AM   #111
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Quote:
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Thank you for this video (was looking for something like this), will be helpful alot. BTW just one question. Does MAIN version get duplicated to version 1 when you initially make playlist (since MAIN becomes "COMP")?
There is no difference between main playlist an comp playlists. Every playlist can be moved to the top and whatever is on the top is where the recordings go to. So you record, create a new playlist (the recorded material playlist including the records) moves down and you get a new clean playlist.

So playlists always exist. If you don't create a playlist you just have the one "main"playlist you see.
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Old 03-04-2022, 07:41 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagelis View Post
Personally I'd prefer to show them automatically on main lane without needing to hit another action, it's way faster if this is happening automatically. Because you can edit in any way the items on lanes without worrying what is audible.
The approach you 're mentioning seems like it needs more actions to accomplish what you want. The comping I did was only with the default modifier and by switching only from the comping tool to the selection tool.
I guess for your purpose it would be better if there was an option to save different comps from lanes, and switch between them. That way you can save as many "playlists" you want? Curious if you could make a gif and show what you mean better.
I think the combination of both features would be the best.
The nice thing in PT is that everything is always visible. There could be an automatic copy mode if you prefer using it that way. But I like that comps just are listed as the raw material. You could rename the playlists to "take xxx" and "comp xxx" if you want.
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Old 03-04-2022, 08:41 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Gass n Klang View Post
The nice thing in PT is that everything is always visible. There could be an automatic copy mode if you prefer using it that way. But I like that comps just are listed as the raw material. You could rename the playlists to "take xxx" and "comp xxx" if you want.
So how far are we from this with the new track lanes feature? What would we need in order to get to the pro tools playlist style workflow?
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Old 03-04-2022, 09:08 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gass n Klang View Post
The nice thing in PT is that everything is always visible. There could be an automatic copy mode if you prefer using it that way. But I like that comps just are listed as the raw material. You could rename the playlists to "take xxx" and "comp xxx" if you want.
Isn't comps listed as raw material in Cubase or Logic too by duplicating them? You can also rename playlists. But what i don't like in PT is the way of comping. And all these extra steps/actions required to make your final comp. In Cubase is waaay faster and easier.
Also it allows you to edit the items on lanes however you want and add them to the main comp automatically, personally i prefer this way more for editing.
Hopefully Schwa see all of our suggestions and implements them in a Reaper way.

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Old 03-04-2022, 09:25 AM   #115
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So how far are we from this with the new track lanes feature?
Pretty far, imo the biggest step towards this behavior as other Daws have, would be to show the lanes in a nested folder and keep the main track in place for the final comp to be shown.
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Old 03-04-2022, 09:31 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Vagelis View Post
Pretty far, imo the biggest step towards this behavior as other Daws have, would be to show the lanes in a nested folder and keep the main track in place for the final comp to be shown.
So folder lanes?
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Old 03-04-2022, 10:11 AM   #117
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So folder lanes?
Yes

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Old 03-04-2022, 11:54 AM   #118
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There's 20+ years of examples from other DAWs to draw inspiration from. None of them are perfect, but it's hard to argue against swipe-comping for vocals especially.

Live drums (anything multi-mic'd that requires grouping) for sure has its own quirks, but again - just need to use other DAWs for 5 minutes to get a feel for how to do this really well.

This was a very very very good direction...


Add lane soloing (for auditioning the entire take without disrupting the comping process) and we're off to the races, no?
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Old 03-04-2022, 11:59 AM   #119
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And to add to the above: Swipe comping is a wonderful and quick way to define active-take boundaries. That said, the Protools-like "comped top-track" could totally still work with this swiping system. The advantages being, you can freely edit the comped track without disrupting the source takes.

This is the benefit of starting from scratch, you get to take the best of all the systems. BitWig had this advantage, and it's hard to find anything to dislike about their comping system.
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Old 03-04-2022, 12:10 PM   #120
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There's 20+ years of examples from other DAWs to draw inspiration from. None of them are perfect
Definitely none of them is perfect but we're discussing and showing ideas to the devs in order to make Reaper's implementation better.
Having all this info could help them a lot to decide about the direction they will take from here, since i think it's one step before adding comp support to media lanes.

Ideally it would be nice to have a combination of all ideas if possible
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