Old 05-26-2010, 03:21 PM   #1
cedrorum
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Default 2 dynamics onto 1 track

I've got a drummer friend who is trying to record his drums using 8 microphones onto a Zoom R16. He will then import those WAVs into Reaper for mixdown. We would like the double bass drums to be on one track.

My question is this. Can you somehow record through 2 dynamic microphones and record those down to 1 track? Is it as simple as using an xlr Y cord, or would you need some type of box as the integrator of the 2 cords into 1.
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Old 05-26-2010, 03:35 PM   #2
Zee Wavesurfer
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It can be done easily by using 2 tracks (1 by input) feeding a third one which will record the merged outputs from the 2 others...

My advice : don't do that.
In my opinion, it would be logical to record both seperatly. This way you have better control over the mixing.
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Old 05-26-2010, 04:26 PM   #3
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Thanks for the input Zee. The recordings we are doing currently are only for writing/arranging purposes. The 2nd bass drum is not getting that much of a workout in these sessions so we didn't want a 2nd track sitting there without much input. We figured it might be easier for the purposes of these recordings to have them both on the same track.
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Old 05-26-2010, 06:09 PM   #4
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After reading my question again, maybe I wasn't clear on exactly what I was asking. I'll try again.

I've seen xlr Y cords. Is there a reason why you couldn't plug 2 dynamic mics into the double end of a Y cord and use the other end to go straight into your input for your track? There is an 8 input limit to going into the R16. Having both bass drums on the same track by using the method above would free up an extra track for another mike for other drum parts.

I've never put 2 mics on a Y cord and have no idea what would happen. Would the recorded track just sound like you had recorded from 2 mics, or would there be some type of interference as the 2 signals combined into one?
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Old 05-27-2010, 01:20 AM   #5
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Yes, you can use an XLR Y-cable with a hit on impedance which will affect your sonics.

This shouldn't be a problem in your particular situation anyway, and you could always replace/augment the kick with samples.
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Old 05-27-2010, 04:07 AM   #6
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Thanks for the response voidar. That was the type of issue I was wondering about. When we do our final mixes we will definetely go 2 tracks, but for these preliminary arrangement/writing mixes I think we'll probably just put both kicks on one track.
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Old 05-27-2010, 04:26 AM   #7
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Not sure, but it is pretty much possible that the R16 allows you to just plug both mics into separate inputs and route the inputs to a single track for recording. That way you wouldn't need to cope with impedance problems.
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Old 05-30-2010, 01:14 PM   #8
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In case routing two inputs to one track isn't possible, you can use a Y-cable, BUT:

- DON'T use a Y-cable where the two inputs are wired parallel. The microphones won't work properly, because each of them reduces drastically the input impedance the other one 'sees'.

- use two dynamic(!) microphones of exactly the same type and a Y-cable that is wired serially (see schematic).

I (have to) use this technique often live with SM57s for Toms to save channels, works perfectly.

Code:
                              o----------------o XLR hot
                              |                            Mic1
                              |   o------------o XLR cold
                              |   |
                              |   |
 XLR hot o--------------------o   |
                                  |
XLR cold o--------------------o   |
                              |   |
                              |   |
                              |   o-------------o XLR hot
                              |                             Mic2
                              o-----------------o XLR cold
(created by AACircuit v1.28.6 beta 04/19/05 www.tech-chat.de)
hth
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Old 05-31-2010, 08:00 AM   #9
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@ Blechi, Thanks for this tip. That is great stuff to know. Like I said prior, for now, we are using the Y to get an extra input. We may change that later, but to be honest, and I haven't thoroughly investigated the actual WAV file yet, but the kicks are both sounding pretty good to me going through the Y we are using.
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Old 06-01-2010, 09:40 PM   #10
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The serial-Y is interesting, but like the para-Y not without it's effect on impedance. It will increase the impedance while the other will decrease it shifting the frequency response.
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Old 06-02-2010, 06:07 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voidar View Post
The serial-Y is interesting, but like the para-Y not without it's effect on impedance. It will increase the impedance while the other will decrease it shifting the frequency response.
Serial-Y increases impedance still resulting in a significantly higher input impedance than the microphone's output impedance.
(~200Ohm for the mic and ~1.6kOhm for the mic input -> over all impedance ~1.8kOhm -> good)
The other microphone's coil acts as a lowpass.

Parallel-Y results in a significantly lower input impedance.
(~200Ohm for the mic and ~1.6kOhm for the mic input -> over all impedance ~177Ohm -> way too low)
The other microphone's coil acts as highpass.
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Old 06-03-2010, 07:19 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blechi View Post
Serial-Y increases impedance still resulting in a significantly higher input impedance than the microphone's output impedance.
(~200Ohm for the mic and ~1.6kOhm for the mic input -> over all impedance ~1.8kOhm -> good)
The other microphone's coil acts as a lowpass.

Parallel-Y results in a significantly lower input impedance.
(~200Ohm for the mic and ~1.6kOhm for the mic input -> over all impedance ~177Ohm -> way too low)
The other microphone's coil acts as highpass.
Yes, hence the "this sounds brighter/duller"-sound. But sometimes that is what you want.

I guess you used the serial-Y for top and bottom of toms. Will they actually be in phase this way?
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Old 06-03-2010, 07:47 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voidar View Post
...
I guess you used the serial-Y for top and bottom of toms. Will they actually be in phase this way?
No, sometimes in a live/festival situation there aren't enough mixer channels and i have to catch a 16" floor tom and a 14" rack tom with 1 mixer channel. They are positioned too far apart (and a ride cymbal in between) to use only 1 mic hence the serial-Y and 2 mics.
When using it for top and bottom of a tom you have to flip the polarity of one mic (mostly bottom) using an additional cross wired XLR cable/adaptor for that mic as the serial-Y doesn't change the signals' polarity.
(Of course when using top and bottom mic the drummer has to know his shit tuning the drums, but that's a whole different story...)
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:04 AM   #14
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Right..! I didn't think of the two toms approach, just top/bottom .
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