Old 08-07-2013, 04:05 PM   #1
guerillary
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 8
Default Mono - Stereo Track Bug?

Hi Folks:

I just imported a MONO 192KHz, 24-bit, aif to a fresh track of a new Reaper project (with matching settings) via the Insert Media command; and upon doing so, Reaper interprets it as a stereo track.

Have confirmed in two other apps (Logic Pro & Final Cut Pro) that this was recorded as a MONO track and consistently imports as such.

What's odd is the other MONO tracks I simultaneously recorded in the same [Logic Pro] session correctly import and playback as MONO.

Unfortunately I can't find any track feature to change the track to mono at the push of a button. Found some advice on the web on how to explode the track into two mono tracks however this option is greyed out upon trying to select it.

Running Reaper 64 v4.402 41ffe8 OSX on a 3.4GHz, 32GB RAM OSX 10.8.4 iMac using an Apogee Duet 2 running the latest drivers.

Help!

Thanks.
guerillary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2013, 07:36 PM   #2
ned
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 331
Default

Is it drawing two waveforms or one? Got any screen captures to illustrate?
ned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2013, 12:42 AM   #3
guerillary
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 8
Default

One waveform. Based on what I'm hearing Reaper always displays two meters per track even if the source is mono. Trying to confirm though.
guerillary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2013, 04:49 AM   #4
Dstruct
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
Default

There is no such thing as a pure mono track in Reaper.
Dstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2013, 05:14 AM   #5
EricM
Human being with feelings
 
EricM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
Posts: 3,801
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by guerillary View Post
One waveform.
One waveform and one empty line, or just one waveform
over a whole item size? If the latter, than it is mono,
and interpreted so by Reaper.

You can set a track to play as mono by setting track's
width parameter to 0%. It effectively sums L & R signal
with 6 dB attenuation, maintaining output level as if
it was just a mono track.

Keep in mind that width is after the FX in signal flow.

Also you can right click the item and go to source properties
(F2), and select Channel mode to any of the item's channels,
making it a mono or stereo item of any available channel combination.

e
__________________
Shoelace 4 Theme | SoundCloud/erXon
EricM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2013, 05:17 AM   #6
James HE
Human being with feelings
 
James HE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: I'm in a barn
Posts: 4,467
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
There is no such thing as a pure mono track in Reaper.
There is no such thing as a pure mono track in any DAW....

unless you are monitoring with one speaker only...

This is a non-issue (except for some issues with some plug ins, UAD cards for example - but this depends on what the plugin does with the VST 2 spec)


The meters are simply post pan. Routing / sends work the same way. This is sometimes conceptually hard for people to understand - it's nothing to get tripped up about.
James HE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2013, 05:30 AM   #7
Dstruct
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by James HE View Post
There is no such thing as a pure mono track in any DAW....
In Cubase/Nuendo there is.
Dstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2013, 05:56 AM   #8
James HE
Human being with feelings
 
James HE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: I'm in a barn
Posts: 4,467
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
In Cubase/Nuendo there is.
read what I said. if you are listening on more than one speaker, it's not 'pure' mono.

semantics, of course.

Think about an analog mixer. It has 'mono' inputs. the signal path stays 'mono' up until the point it hits the pan pot. At that point, the signal is split into two paths, left and right. (ignoring Aux sends)

even if the pan pot is centered, and the meter is a single meter, can you really say the signal is "mono" once it hits the stereo buss of the mixer?
James HE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2013, 05:59 AM   #9
Dstruct
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
Default

That's not the topic here I thought.
Dstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2013, 12:59 PM   #10
guerillary
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 8
Default

Mono is mono, converting it to stereo output later in the chain doesn't go back and make the prior channels stereo. Most DAWs display mono tracks with one level meter. I'm not sure this is just semantics because some of my mono plugins don't work right on Reaper's "stereo-looking" mono tracks - although stereo instances do.
guerillary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2013, 01:52 PM   #11
EricM
Human being with feelings
 
EricM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
Posts: 3,801
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by guerillary View Post
Most DAWs display mono tracks with one level meter. I'm not sure this is just semantics because some of my mono plugins don't work right on Reaper's "stereo-looking" mono tracks - although stereo instances do.
Read/discuss:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=9823

Vote:
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3344

e
__________________
Shoelace 4 Theme | SoundCloud/erXon
EricM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2013, 03:35 PM   #12
James HE
Human being with feelings
 
James HE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: I'm in a barn
Posts: 4,467
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by guerillary View Post
Mono is mono, converting it to stereo output later in the chain doesn't go back and make the prior channels stereo. Most DAWs display mono tracks with one level meter. I'm not sure this is just semantics because some of my mono plugins don't work right on Reaper's "stereo-looking" mono tracks - although stereo instances do.
yeah the plug-in issue is a bit unfortunate.

if you change the plugin pins to only have one input, some VST's will reduce the load (if they are both mono and stereo) some will not. that little matrix is very unique, it allows a lot of routing schemes that can't be done within one track in other daws. and you can really scrtew it up if you are not careful...



I can't reproduce whatever I did to force this error, lol! but... anyway ...

My stance on this is that it really just doesn't matter, until you want to you some plugin that has been limited by it's maker to only work on a specific track "type"

otherwise it just does not matter.
James HE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2013, 03:37 PM   #13
James HE
Human being with feelings
 
James HE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: I'm in a barn
Posts: 4,467
Default

Did the media item in question turn out to be mono or stereo, btw?
James HE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2013, 03:54 PM   #14
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
Default

Quote:
The meters are simply post pan. Routing / sends work the same way. This is sometimes conceptually hard for people to understand - it's nothing to get tripped up about.
As an innocent bystander, I tend to agree. If a plugin or UAD has an issue with it that's one thing but wrapping one's head around the above is paramount. The sound ultimately comes from two speakers fed by Reaper's stereo master fed by a track with a pan knob. In other words, barring UAD etc, you could simply change the meter view and no one would know a bit of difference.

Personally, I'd prefer to see the meter as stereo because it shows me the panning result of any signal, stereo or mono.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
karbomusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2013, 07:21 PM   #15
James HE
Human being with feelings
 
James HE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: I'm in a barn
Posts: 4,467
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Personally, I'd prefer to see the meter as stereo because it shows me the panning result of any signal, stereo or mono.


you can always use the fakie mono meter trick.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...ie+mono+meters
James HE is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.