v6.12+dev0621 - June 21 2020

[juan_r]

I think we're straying from relevance, and maybe I shouldn't be posting this here, but actually velocity=0 is the (sub)standard way of issuing a note off. Which also raises a slew of issues with instruments that are able to make two identical notes. Example? Think of a harp, C# and Db simultaneously. Same MIDI message for C# and Db. Should a note off stop both or only one? Which one? They might have slightly different timbres, coming from different samples: C string and D string.

What happens to muted, silenced, transparent or hidden notes when playing or exporting is largely dependent on what the DAW wants to happen. How easy or hard it is to do depends on the internal representation the DAW has for a MIDI event such as a note, which needn't necessarily be just the NoteON+NoteOFF messages and their timing. There might be a 'color' tag, a 'transparency' 16-bit value (not that it makes sense) or whichever other attribute is deemed necessary by the designers. This has nothing to do with the MIDI spec at all.

[Klangfarben]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Until MIDI 2.0 is everywhere at least.

True A day I'm both looking forward to and dreading lol

[ovnis]

Originally Posted by Klangfarben

There are only two states for a midi note. Either muted or not muted - a velocity of 0 or a velocity > 0. A midi note can't "be" anything else.

So if a note does not play but is shown, then by definition it has to be muted as the velocity would be 0. You can't just say hey transparent = velocity 0 and muted = velocity 0 but they are two totally different things. They aren't. A midi note has a velocity of 0 in which case it does not play and is "muted" or it has a velocity > 0 and plays. There's nothing else in the spec but that.

OK, but we don't speak about the same thing. I want a transparant note if the note is played but the real start of the note is outside the MIDI item where is the transparant note.

[Klangfarben]

Originally Posted by juan_r

I think we're straying from relevance, and maybe I shouldn't be posting this here, but actually velocity=0 is the (sub)standard way of issuing a note off. Which also raises a slew of issues with instruments that are able to make two identical notes. Example? Think of a harp, C# and Db simultaneously. Same MIDI message for C# and Db. Should a note off stop both or only one? Which one? They might have slightly different timbres, coming from different samples: C string and D string.

What happens to muted, silenced, transparent or hidden notes when playing or exporting is largely dependent on what the DAW wants to happen. How easy or hard it is to do depends on the internal representation the DAW has for a MIDI event such as a note, which needn't necessarily be just the NoteON+NoteOFF messages and their timing. There might be a 'color' tag, a 'transparency' 16-bit value (not that it makes sense) or whichever other attribute is deemed necessary by the designers. This has nothing to do with the MIDI spec at all.

First of all, yes that is exactly what note off is - a note on with a velocity of 0. Which means what? It's not playing. It's muted. Velocity 0 doesn't play, velocity > 0 does. And for your harp example, it should mute whatever note has the velocity of 0. It doesn't matter that they are the same midi note number. It matters what specific note it is in the score/sequence. So, if you want to mute the C#, you mute that note/set the velocity to 0. If you want to mute the Db, you set that notes velocity to 0. The user has already triggered the correct sample by setting the pedal so all they need to do is mute the note they want. There's nothing complicated about it (besides knowing what the hell the pedals do lol).

You can split hairs all you want about how the DAW is dealing with it but have you ever seen a DAW refer to note off or muted note as something completely different? A DAW calling velocity 0 "de-triggered" in addition to muted? I haven't. If a command does the EXACT same thing functionally, DAWs don't give them a new name. If I'm in pro tools and I mute a region/item there isn't another command called "Visibly Don't Play" that does the same thing.

[juan_r]

Originally Posted by Klangfarben

First of all, yes that is exactly what note off is - a note on with a velocity of 0. Which means what? It's not playing. It's muted.

To me it's more than that, because it stops an already-sounding note. It's not just silence; it is silence where there was sound. As I bet you know, the note off message (different opcode with its own optional off-velocity) has never actually been used that much.

Originally Posted by Klangfarben

And for your harp example, it should mute whatever note has the velocity of 0. It doesn't matter that they are the same midi note number. It matters what specific note it is in the score/sequence.

It does matter if the two notes are already sounding when the note vith vel=0 is triggered.

You can split hairs all you want about how the DAW is dealing with it but have you ever seen a DAW refer to note off or muted note as something completely different?

Really not trying to split hairs, honest! In Reaper itself, you can mute a note in the editor and it won't play at all. It doesn't even get triggered in the first place. That's different from simple velocity=0. The original velocity is retained if you unmute the note. So there's some kind of flag ('mute-me') that gets set and can be reset.

Maybe we're talking about different things, though. I thought the discussion started by talking about splitting notes when splitting MIDI items, and about the possibility of "dangling notes", that is, notes whose ON event is within the item's bounds, but whose note OFF event falls beyond the item's end. That's why it feels like what I say now is largely irrelevant.

[nofish]

Originally Posted by tusitala

Hi,

This action:
Xenakios/SWS: Play selected items once

that 've been using for ages, assigned to a shortcut, now in this last version has a strange behaviour of removing the existing time selection, which was never the case and theoretically should not be happening.

Thanks

Confirmed, but it's a bug in SWS, not Reaper (looking into fixing for next SWS version).

[nofish]

Originally Posted by Klangfarben

Since technically the note is muted, I agree it should be shown as muted/actually muted.

But it's not actually muted, it plays legato (with sustained sounds).
Here I've split a MIDI item with a long note:



old way split:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cmdb6wb6zn...split.mp3?dl=1

new way spli:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/g5975ixz8r...split.mp3?dl=1

So showing it as a muted note wouldn't fit imo.

[Meo-Ada Mespotine]

Originally Posted by Reno.thestraws

Depends on what you do with reaper

Reaper users are

Musicians
Producers
Mixers
Mastering engineers
Podcaster
Post prod guys
Sound designers
Bands
Video games guys
ADT
PROG Metal heads
EDM
Rappers
Journalists


So much different workflow and goals...

They always forget about us scripters

[mccrabney]

So showing it as a muted note wouldn't fit imo.

agreed, it's not a muted note. it's a note off whose corresponding note on is in a previous item.

[tusitala]

Originally Posted by nofish

Confirmed, but it's a bug in SWS, not Reaper (looking into fixing for next SWS version).

THANKS!

[ovnis]

So showing it as a muted note wouldn't fit imo.

If the note is not muted but the note off whose corresponding note on is in a previous item, why not using transparancy ?