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08-20-2020, 06:49 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 966
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Is There Any Reason NOT to Use a Portable Install?
I keep a customized portable installation of Reaper on a thumb drive for those rare occasions when I need to use it in a remote environment. But on my main workstation, I have always just installed it normally, and have never thought to do otherwise.
As the title of this thread asks, are there any inherent advantages to having a full installation? Resource consumption, performance et al?
No biggie, just curious.
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08-20-2020, 06:57 PM
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#2
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Scribe
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Van Diemen's Land
Posts: 12,204
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One issue that comes to mind is that some of the install options (e.g. associating .RPP files) aren't available with portable install ... though I suspect you could probably add that one afterwards in Windows Explorer.
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08-20-2020, 07:03 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 201
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Another thing is the portable install won't let you install rearoute or rewire.
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08-20-2020, 07:54 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholas
One issue that comes to mind is that some of the install options (e.g. associating .RPP files) aren't available with portable install ... though I suspect you could probably add that one afterwards in Windows Explorer.
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Yes it is, I assumed everybody knew that trick, I did a video on it years ago.
Do the portable install, then do not start Reaper, do the install again, this time do a full install and point it at the portable folder, now it does the full install portably, everytime you update it does a portable update with ALL features
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08-20-2020, 07:55 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poplomop
Another thing is the portable install won't let you install rearoute or rewire.
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See my post above
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Stop posting huge images, smaller images or thumbnail, it's not rocket science!
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08-20-2020, 08:00 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 966
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Thanks for the responses! Yeah, setting file associations in Windows File Explorer is extremely quick and easy, and I've never used either rearoute or rewire. But maybe it's better to keep those options, since it's not as though full installation is a chore...
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08-20-2020, 08:01 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Win Conway
Yes it is, I assumed everybody knew that trick, I did a video on it years ago.
Do the portable install, then do not start Reaper, do the install again, this time do a full install and point it at the portable folder, now it does the full install portably, everytime you update it does a portable update with ALL features
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Wow, that is pretty cool indeed, and news to me. Thanks!
EDIT: Any problems with saved configs or customizations in this scenario?
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08-21-2020, 07:17 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Right Hear
Posts: 15,618
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question about the conway trick:
does doing that actually put the rearoute and rewire dll's into the portable install folder?
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08-21-2020, 07:20 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Win Conway
Yes it is, I assumed everybody knew that trick, I did a video on it years ago.
Do the portable install, then do not start Reaper, do the install again, this time do a full install and point it at the portable folder, now it does the full install portably, everytime you update it does a portable update with ALL features
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That just makes it a regular install into a different folder. Because the majority of the non-portable actions are registry entries. It "might" keep the resource folder in the install folder instead of %AppData%, you'd want to confirm but the "all features" are due to registry entries.
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Music is what feelings sound like.
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08-21-2020, 04:12 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Win Conway
... do a full install and point it at the portable folder, now it does the full install portably
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Sorry, but this is NOT a portable install, because all your
ini-files, presets etc are at the standard-windows-folder "C: \ user
\ name \ AppData \ Roaming \ Reaper" and so it is not "portable".
---> EDIT: Here I am wrong. As "Win Conway" shows, Reaper does a
portable install when pointing to a previously portable install. Obviously
this is a Reaper specialty <---
"Portable" means that all data, also additional control-data and ini-files,
are at one place and can be copied to a portable usb-stick (or anything else).
"Portable" has advantage that you can back up all your data at once without
fiddling in any windows-appdata-folder.
Last edited by enroe; 08-27-2020 at 10:04 PM.
Reason: correction
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08-21-2020, 04:13 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,587
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Oooops, now I see that "karbomusic" said it already.
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08-21-2020, 06:11 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enroe
Sorry, but this is NOT a portable install, because all your
ini-files, presets etc are at the standard-windows-folder "C: \ user
\ name \ AppData \ Roaming \ Reaper" and so it is not "portable".
"Portable" means that all data, also additional control-data and ini-files,
are at one place and can be copied to a portable usb-stick (or anything else).
"Portable" has advantage that you can back up all your data at once without
fiddling in any windows-appdata-folder.
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You either did it wrong, or didn't do it, here is a gif that shows it is portable, all .dll in the portable folder, no appdata/roaming folder as can be seen.
Yes it adds rearoute etc to the registry (Obviously, you want them to work, right ? rearoute is hardware level fake driver) but the folder can be dragged and dropped to another computer and just work, all files, ini, dll etc are in the portable folder.
Just because somebody on a forum says it isn't portable because it adds some registry entries (Which have to be added for rearoute etc to work) does not mean it is not portable (Able to be moved)
Please actually try things before giving out spurious information like NOT working in bold letters etc.
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Last edited by Win Conway; 08-21-2020 at 06:16 PM.
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08-21-2020, 06:13 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,826
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I have been dragging and dropping my Reaper folder to new computers for what ? Ten years maybe, so yes it is portable, the only issue you may have is some build up of crap in terms of plugin favourites etc, they remain even if you uninstall plugins, but they dont slow down Reaper at all, and obviously if the plugin isnt installed, you dont see the favourites anyway.
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08-21-2020, 06:22 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
That just makes it a regular install into a different folder. Because the majority of the non-portable actions are registry entries. It "might" keep the resource folder in the install folder instead of %AppData%, you'd want to confirm but the "all features" are due to registry entries.
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All features are add on features, it is still a portable install, with added add on features via the registry (Second full install over the top) you can still pick up the folder and put it on another computer and it will work, all plugins, all scripts all themes etc etc (You know, portable)
The fact that you are arguing semantics over a couple of registry entries for additional features is laughable at best, most so called "Portable" software will add registry entries when it is run anyway, but hey, if the registry is so offensive to you, possibly time to move on from Windows the registry isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
I showed how to do a portable install and still have all the features, for most people the important part of portable install is everything being in one folder, easily accessible and portable, oh wait did the name give it away.
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08-21-2020, 07:19 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,269
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No one is trying to argue, it's just an important distinction. Nothing being written to outside the install folder during install, is one of the requirements of a "portable" install for any app.
So much so you can do what you do now, but combine them into one step, which is run the regular installer and manually point to to some convenient folder instead of the default of Project Files. It's the exact same result, just less steps, except...
The only other thing I added is you need to make sure Reaper's resource path doesn't get set back to %AppData% like I said before, not for our sake but yours, so you know. If it doesn't switch it back to AppData that's good towards your suggestion.
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Music is what feelings sound like.
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08-21-2020, 07:33 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,826
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It doesn't switch anything back, it is a portable install, you create a portable install, everything in the folder can be moved to another computer and will work, a few registry entries added by the second install does not create an extra files, it creates a few registry entries to register some hardware level stuff and to register file types, both of which are a good idea anyway, it is really that simple.
This isn't some nonsense I came up with, Justin told us about this many many years ago, he specifically designed the installer to work this way and it always has.
(Don't take my join date as how long I have been around, I had a previous account and have been here since day dot)
Just to reiterate, Justin told us about this, the developer of the software, many years ago, it is an old power user trick.
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Stop posting huge images, smaller images or thumbnail, it's not rocket science!
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08-21-2020, 07:42 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,826
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It is possible enroe is doing this on a computer that has had a previous Reaper install, so the roaming folder already has entries, you can drag all these folders over to the portable install and delete them from roaming, once Reaper is pointed at the portable folder from the first install, it will always look in there for any user plugins/themes/ini etc.
You do this at your own risk, back the folders up first, it has always worked here and for all other power users using this technique over the years, but that doesn't mean dont be safe lol.
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Stop posting huge images, smaller images or thumbnail, it's not rocket science!
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08-21-2020, 08:19 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Win Conway
It doesn't switch anything back, it is a portable install, you create a portable install, everything in the folder can be moved to another computer and will work, a few registry entries added by the second install does not create an extra files, it creates a few registry entries to register some hardware level stuff and to register file types, both of which are a good idea anyway, it is really that simple.
This isn't some nonsense I came up with, Justin told us about this many many years ago, he specifically designed the installer to work this way and it always has.
(Don't take my join date as how long I have been around, I had a previous account and have been here since day dot)
Just to reiterate, Justin told us about this, the developer of the software, many years ago, it is an old power user trick.
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As I mentioned in my last reply, if it doesn't switch it back, what you are saying makes more sense, which is good and helpful. Maybe don't treat technical asks or challenges as assaults on integrity, that's kind of getting in the way of the fruitful part of the discussion. Besides, it's the weekend, time to relax.
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Music is what feelings sound like.
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08-21-2020, 08:42 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
Besides, it's the weekend, time to relax.
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Well have a good one my friend.
Regarding portable installs, I've got a half dozen installed for various purposes, I don't have a regular install.
The only problem I have that bothers me is that I want to keep the same configurations for not all, but most of the installs, so it requires quite a bit of exporting/importing my main config file.
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08-21-2020, 09:12 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod
Well have a good one my friend.
Regarding portable installs, I've got a half dozen installed for various purposes, I don't have a regular install.
The only problem I have that bothers me is that I want to keep the same configurations for not all, but most of the installs, so it requires quite a bit of exporting/importing my main config file.
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Great to hear from you Tod! I have a few of them as well, a couple for testing only etc.
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Music is what feelings sound like.
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08-21-2020, 09:34 PM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
As I mentioned in my last reply, if it doesn't switch it back, what you are saying makes more sense, which is good and helpful. Maybe don't treat technical asks or challenges as assaults on integrity, that's kind of getting in the way of the fruitful part of the discussion. Besides, it's the weekend, time to relax.
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It has nothing to do with integrity or assualts, it has to do with bad information being put in the forum that others will read, like
Quote:
this is NOT a portable install, because all your
ini-files, presets etc are at the standard-windows-folder "C: \ user
\ name \ AppData \ Roaming \ Reaper" and so it is not "portable".
"Portable" means that all data, also additional control-data and ini-files,
are at one place and can be copied to a portable usb-stick (or anything else).
"Portable" has advantage that you can back up all your data at once without
fiddling in any windows-appdata-folder.
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Stop posting huge images, smaller images or thumbnail, it's not rocket science!
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08-21-2020, 09:40 PM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod
The only problem I have that bothers me is that I want to keep the same configurations for not all, but most of the installs, so it requires quite a bit of exporting/importing my main config file.
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You don't have to, with portable installs you can just drag n drop the relevant file to the next portable folder, this is the same reason why its not worth having compressed themes either, uncompress them and delete the compressed versions so you can get at whatever files are in there, and you reduce any slowdowns (Yes negligible nowadays before anybody wants to start crying) from uncompressing the theme zip on boot.
There are plenty of tweaks like that to do on a clean portable install, I don't even have the built in themes (Other than classic obviously)
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Stop posting huge images, smaller images or thumbnail, it's not rocket science!
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08-22-2020, 06:42 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 395
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lost 16gigs on a thumb drive
thumb drives have a bad failure rate
it works ok except the pathing as ad nausiumed
keep everything on the flash drive
for the project your working on just drag the whole folder onto the desk top and work from there.
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08-22-2020, 06:44 AM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 395
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better solution
I spent $100 on 160gig portable HD
I keep everything in one place and it
fits in my pocket
of course its got a proprietory cable
the harddrives a good solution if you ever use more than one machine
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08-22-2020, 11:43 AM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Win Conway
This isn't some nonsense I came up with, Justin told us about this many many
years ago, he specifically designed the installer to work this way and it
always has.
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Ohh, sorry, if that is the case you are right. And I was wrong.
I didn't know about this "special" Reaper trick, that Reaper
doesn't reset the pathvariable with a new full installation.
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08-22-2020, 09:08 PM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Win Conway
You don't have to, with portable installs you can just drag n drop the relevant file to the next portable folder, this is the same reason why its not worth having compressed themes either, uncompress them and delete the compressed versions so you can get at whatever files are in there, and you reduce any slowdowns (Yes negligible nowadays before anybody wants to start crying) from uncompressing the theme zip on boot.
There are plenty of tweaks like that to do on a clean portable install, I don't even have the built in themes (Other than classic obviously)
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Well that's true Win, and I thank you for the suggestion, I hadn't thought about doing it that way. However, I'm creating many custom actions, frequently downloading scripts from Reapack, and creating icons for both toolbars and tracks on a daily basis. It would be impossible for me to keep track of everything.
I live in both the arrange area and also the midi editor where I'm constantly updating my toolbars there too, with both actions and icons.
I've done a lot to get the Reaper 6 theme set up for my self including working with the rtconfig file. It's taken a lot of time and effort to get Reaper 6 somewhat setup for my use and preferences.
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08-22-2020, 09:39 PM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod
Well that's true Win, and I thank you for the suggestion, I hadn't thought about doing it that way. However, I'm creating many custom actions, frequently downloading scripts from Reapack, and creating icons for both toolbars and tracks on a daily basis. It would be impossible for me to keep track of everything.
I live in both the arrange area and also the midi editor where I'm constantly updating my toolbars there too, with both actions and icons.
I've done a lot to get the Reaper 6 theme set up for my self including working with the rtconfig file. It's taken a lot of time and effort to get Reaper 6 somewhat setup for my use and preferences.
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There actually is another way, I have tried it, It works perfectly, but again, do at your own risk.
Backstory and why I even tried this, I'm a geek, I have Reaper on a computer in the Kitchen, One in the living room, a laptop in my bedroom and a laptop I take to work, plus obviously the studio, I can not use anybody elses theme, I design my own at each big release, then I tweak it constantly in use across these systems, as you can image it can become a PITA.
1 Put Dropbox on your computers (You get 1 or 2GB free, I use the 2TB package)
2 Do the portable then full install trick on each computer, but to the exact same local Dropbox folder.
3 Now when you tweak it automagically updates all the other installs because they are all the same install.
Again, while since I did it, worked perfectly, but can't guarantee it will still do so, I haven't set that up again yet.
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08-24-2020, 01:55 PM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 809
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I recently had to do a 32-bit Windows install of reaper on a laptop just to try to record a MIDI track at a remote location. I did a standard install thinking it wouldn't matter since there was only a C drive anyway. However, lo and behold, as others have stated, I encountered all kinds of Windows permission issues that would not allow me to copy anything directly over the network into the reaper project folder. While there are some fixes for this, it requires some knowledge of Windows permissions and Windows doesn't like it when you allow permissions in the directories where reaper installs by default. It's probably not recommended to change those permissions and those folders anyway.
I've used standard installs on other computers but I've always directed the program install to a different directory on a data drive other than C. I never had any permission problems this way although you still end up with files spread all over your computer which makes backup a little more challenging.
With regards to portable installs, although it seems to make sense at the end of the day you're probably going to have VST's that force files all over the place out of your control anyway. So you still end up having to take all of this into account when you backup your system regardless.
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08-24-2020, 02:17 PM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod
so it requires quite a bit of exporting/importing my main config file.
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You just need to copy reaper.ini file
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08-25-2020, 04:59 AM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steviebone
I recently had to do a 32-bit Windows install of reaper on a laptop just to try to record a MIDI track at a remote location. I did a standard install thinking it wouldn't matter since there was only a C drive anyway. However, lo and behold, as others have stated, I encountered all kinds of Windows permission issues that would not allow me to copy anything directly over the network into the reaper project folder. While there are some fixes for this, it requires some knowledge of Windows permissions and Windows doesn't like it when you allow permissions in the directories where reaper installs by default. It's probably not recommended to change those permissions and those folders anyway.
I've used standard installs on other computers but I've always directed the program install to a different directory on a data drive other than C. I never had any permission problems this way although you still end up with files spread all over your computer which makes backup a little more challenging.
With regards to portable installs, although it seems to make sense at the end of the day you're probably going to have VST's that force files all over the place out of your control anyway. So you still end up having to take all of this into account when you backup your system regardless.
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Not that huge an issue with the VST thing, you create a standalone VST2 folder at root, then just move the location of the VST3 folder to root too, linked back to its original shared location, other than some system files which you simply are not getting around anytime soon, all my VST and VST data/banks/samples etc are on my D drive at root with zero permission issues.
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08-25-2020, 09:15 AM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Win Conway
Not that huge an issue with the VST thing, you create a standalone VST2 folder at root, then just move the location of the VST3 folder to root too, linked back to its original shared location, other than some system files which you simply are not getting around anytime soon, all my VST and VST data/banks/samples etc are on my D drive at root with zero permission issues.
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I think you misunderstood my post. The permissions problem has to do with things that end up in Windows subdirectories and other directories which Windows tries to protect by enforcing certain permission restrictions. My point was that these permissions aside, you are still going to have files all over your computer no matter what you do these days regardless of whether you use a reaper portable install. Although using a portable install helps to move reaper preferences from one machine to another, in order to have a full backup of your full system you will need to take other things into account anyway.
Doing a standard install on some systems will lead to permissions problems that likely only show up when you are transferring files over a network. There is a difference between how Windows looks at moving files around on a local system or a single computer and what is allowed to come over the network into a Windows subdirectory. So if your DAW ever needs to get at files over a local area network you will have trouble transferring those files directly to reaper directories if those directories fall within the Windows subdirectories with these permissions. You will have to first transfer those file somewhere else on to the computer and then move them again locally to avoid these Windows restrictions.
I avoid VST3 like the plague. As for other VST's almost many of them will place files outside of the directory you choose no matter what, buried in your documents folder, or your roaming app data folder, etc. and/or of course your registry.
I install all of my VST's to specific directories with a very carefully controlled hierarchy. But someday when you go to move your system you will find things like your presets missing because no matter what you specify as an install folder many VST's will continue to place critical information in other locations, some of which are hidden.
Also, you are avoiding these permissions issue because you are placing this information on the D drive and not within a typical Windows C drive subdirectory, which is the default for most users.
That's just been my experience, your mileage may vary.
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08-26-2020, 12:28 AM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steviebone
... if those directories fall within the Windows subdirectories with these permissions.
You will have to first transfer those file somewhere else on to the computer and then
move them again locally to avoid these Windows restrictions.
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Yes, but this is another problem. We have two kinds of VSTs:
1. VSTs which consist only of a single dll-file.
2. VSTs which need many files, some in the windows-app-data,
and some registry-entries.
With (1) you'll never have problems: You can install your
plugin-folder portably wherever you like, and it is perfect.
With category (2) you'll always be forced to make a new
install. There is no portability.
And this has nothing to do with VST3: There are VST-3 plugins
of category (1) and category (2).
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08-26-2020, 07:04 PM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitalker
You just need to copy reaper.ini file
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Thanks vitalker, and yeah, but many times I make selective exporting just to update custom actions and icons.
Actually I did run into a situation yesterday. On Monday I saved and closed Reaper for the day. When I came back to the studio the next day, Reaper would crash everytime I tried to open it. I worked for a good 3 hours trying figure it out by eliminating possibilities. Finally I got tiered and simply copied the reaper.ini file from another install that I also keep fairly up to date and that fixed it.
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08-27-2020, 02:10 PM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,199
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Portable ALWAYS, for me. Always.
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08-28-2020, 07:24 AM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Right Hear
Posts: 15,618
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reporting.... tested Win's method on a clean win10-64 system and it works nicely.... no app data stuff gets installed... everything goes into the named portable folder... good stuff to know
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08-28-2020, 07:37 AM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Win Conway
Yes it is, I assumed everybody knew that trick, I did a video on it years ago.
Do the portable install, then do not start Reaper, do the install again, this time do a full install and point it at the portable folder, now it does the full install portably, everytime you update it does a portable update with ALL features
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Wow! Thanks for the insight )
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08-28-2020, 10:38 AM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themixtape
Portable ALWAYS, for me. Always.
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The same here
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11-18-2020, 09:43 PM
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#38
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Win Conway
Yes it is, I assumed everybody knew that trick, I did a video on it years ago.
Do the portable install, then do not start Reaper, do the install again, this time do a full install and point it at the portable folder, now it does the full install portably, everytime you update it does a portable update with ALL features
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Win,
just wondering what this procedure looks like on a mac. if there is any difference in procedure..
thanks
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11-19-2020, 09:28 AM
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#39
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 70
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I'm always using portable installs. I have several of them; one for mastering, one for video editing, one for music production and one plain vanilla install for screen recording / screen shots in tutorials, courses, blog posts etc.
It's super easy to make backups or clone an install to test things when using portable installs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twoleftfeet
Win,
just wondering what this procedure looks like on a mac. if there is any difference in procedure..
thanks
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On Mac you just create a folder, copy the Reaper.app into it, and create an empty file named reaper.ini before starting the app. Reaper will then create a portable install inside that folder with all necessary files.
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11-19-2020, 09:47 AM
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#40
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twoleftfeet
Win,
just wondering what this procedure looks like on a mac. if there is any difference in procedure..
thanks
|
In addition to ThomasE's post above, here's a video showing the process of creating a portable install: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz8w7lNtpOc
If I remember correctly, the (only?) difference on macOS between a regular and portable Reaper install is basically into which location the resource files are installed to - since installing and updating the Reaper (.app) application package itself is just drag & drop (without having any additional options to select as it is the case in the Windows installer).
Last edited by solger; 11-19-2020 at 10:47 AM.
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