Free item positioning: what is the intended use now?

[Phazma]

Before we had fixed media item lanes, FIP was a nice way to layer sounds on the same track. The drawback was that because of no vertical snapping (in both item position and item height) it easily became messy.

Now that we have lanes, the only situation in which I personally still use FIP is if I want to auto-crossfade for example 1 bigger item with 2 smaller ones. In fact I suggested the possibility of item height handles (with snap to lanes) for fixed lanes modality on several occasions (to not need the messy FIP anymore) but I got no support from other users and no reaction from the devs, so I suppose this for some reason is not something that people do.

But other than that.. why would someone still use free item positioning?

As said, as long as items in lanes have no height handles I personally still use it and hope it doesn't get deprecated, but otherwise I think it would make most sense to just merge it with lanes instead of having 2 almost identical features which would just confuse users.

[ovnis]

This options should be deleted and replaced by fixed item lanes on old project with free positioning track.

[enroe]

Originally Posted by Phazma

As said, as long as items in lanes have no height handles I personally still use it and hope it doesn't get deprecated, ...

Originally Posted by Onvis

This options should be deleted and replaced by fixed item lanes on old projects with free positioning track.

The FIP-mode must under no circumstances be "optimized
away". Because that would be a "worsening improvement"!

Precisely because Reaper doesn't have a dedicated audio
editor. Audio items can be shifted, faded and crossfaded
directly in the track. But this is only possible in FIP mode.
In particular, you can freely define the positions and
overlaps of the items with the mouse. You can then create
your own "own picture" of the item arrangement, maybe it
looks like this:



If you were to transfer this item arrangement to fixed lanes,
this self-defined arrangement would be lost. That would be
bad.

Therefore:

The "free item positioning mode" FIPM must still be
available as an option.

[ovnis]

If you were to transfer this item arrangement to fixed lanes,
this self-defined arrangement would be lost.

Why do you say that?

[enroe]

@Onvis: Because I assume that only items with a fixed height
can be seen in the "fixed lanes". Tell me that's not true!?

[ovnis]

I think we can translate from free item to fixed lane without breaking the arrangement. But maybe I'm wrong?

[enroe]

Originally Posted by ovnis

I think we can translate from free item to fixed lane without breaking the arrangement. But maybe I'm wrong?

Let's look at a case study:

You recorded a long part with the bass guitar. This part is an item on a track. There is only one point where the timing is not quite right. So you cut the item at that point and now you have several items. Now copy the questionable part several times - "on" in FIPM - so that the item clips are in the same track below each other. By muting and moving the various items, which are all under each other, you can try out different timings - and finally choose one of the thems to be active. But you want to keep the original and the other sample positions all so that you can choose a different timing later.

What would a transfer to "fixed lanes" do with it?

I suspect that the original item would be in a lane. But a separate lane would now be created for each of the correction items standing below one another. This means that you would have a lot of almost completely empty lanes that are only filled with a single item in one place - namely where the correction was made. A very ugly picture!

Another case study:

At one point there are several items - in FIP mode - via Crossfades are intricately nested.

What would a transfer to "fixed lanes" do with it?

Yes that is the question! In FIP mode I can look closely at the individual fades, move them, etc. But how does it look in "fixed lanes" mode? If the items all have a fixed height, are they simply on top of each other in the fade area? That would be confusing, and you would actually no longer be able to see the fade nesting so precisely.

[ovnis]

"I suspect that the original item would be in a lane. But a separate lane would now be created for each of the correction items standing below one another. This means that you would have a lot of almost completely empty lanes that are only filled with a single item in one place - namely where the correction was made. A very ugly picture! "
Not necessarily. You can put lots of items inside one lane with offset overlapping item vertically enabled.

[Phazma]

enroe made some good points and I guess for that reason FIP should remain available at least as a legacy mode for older projects.

But I think if items on lanes had handles like in FIP which allow to increase/decrease their height by entire lanes, it would be both possible to do nested crossfades and this type of 'drawings'. Of course you wouldn't have the possibility to change height pixel by pixel, just lane by lane, but I can't see how that would be a disadvantage. It would make FIP completely obsolete for new projects I guess.

[bolgwrad]

IMHO it's the take system that's redundant. In FIP or FIL mode you can record as many takes as you want and they'll already be exploded. What's needed is a native system for auditioning them.

If you drag an item from one lane to another, the two (or more) items are in kind of FIP mode anyway, at least horizontally.

If it ain't broke.

[Phazma]

Originally Posted by bolgwrad

If you drag an item from one lane to another, the two (or more) items are in kind of FIP mode anyway, at least horizontally.

That’s what I am saying. I don’t know what advantage/difference FIP has from media lanes, if not the fact that you can have an item twice the heigth of another (and in consequence do the things that enroe and I have mentioned).

If the devs added the ability in fixed item lanes mode to change the heigth of items to cover more than one lane, I don’t see what else FIP would even be useful for. In that case they could IMO deprecate it as a past, inferior version of lanes and only keep its functionality available as legacy if needed to open old projects.

I am wondering if I am missing something else FIP is needed for that can’t be replicated in fixes lanes mode.

[Tod]

It definitely should not be made default.

I don't know what happened, all of a sudden my items started showing up as half channel files. It totally confused me and I had no idea what the problems was, I have never used FIP. I know I didn't change the setting in Preferences and I have no shortcut keys assigned to any of the FIP actions. So how did it happen?

Oh well, ha ha, stuff happens..

[nofish]

half channel files? Like this maybe?



If so, you can change it via action 'View: Show peaks display settings' > Display mode > ... > Rectify peaks.

Otherwise, maybe post a screenshot?

[EvilDragon]

Half channel, as in the item takes up half the track lane height, I reckon.

[nofish]

Ah yes, probably makes more sense as this is a thread about FIPM/lanes, not peaks. :P

[Phazma]

Hmm I just thought again about the lanes concept and if actions per lane (like mute) are going to be introduced at some point, then having an item cover multiple lanes would just lead to weirdness.

If that is the direction lanes are going, probably it makes more sense to improve FIP and add a snapping feature to it which allows vertical movement and heigth increase/decrease only by the amount of what the size of a lane would be.
I guess FIP would then also need something like the lane add area for when a full track sized item needs to get bigger or move lower.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Half channel, as in the item takes up half the track lane height, I reckon.

Originally Posted by nofish

Ah yes, probably makes more sense as this is a thread about FIPM/lanes, not peaks. :P

Aah, 2 of my favorite people.

Yes, it covers half the lane and has always been on top of the track lane. It has a little handle located at the bottom of the item, half way through the item.

[Lunar Ladder]

Originally Posted by ovnis

This options should be deleted and replaced by fixed item lanes on old project with free positioning track.

Absolutely do not get rid of free item positioning as an option! It's a completely different "mindset", freely arranging material and making it also visually freeform (in size and vertical placement etc.), these modes are not mutually exclusive.

[ovnis]

I'm OK!

[skylar_battles]

Reviving this! Yes these features are almost identical and the best of both should be optimized and merged into one.