jamstix vs. other "virtual drummers"

[Artbay]

getting some kind of "virtual drummer software" has been in the back of my mind for a while. i've already got lotsa sounds and loops, but i'm lousy at making them very interesting. what i'm looking for is more an "AI" to play the sounds in a more cool & interesting way - with variations, fills, etc., (not just same ol' loops).

from what i've read in these forums and elsewhere, it sounds like jamstix most closely fits what i'm looking for. can anyone here confirm that choice before i spend any money on it? or is there something better (in that general price range)?

[Milt]

I love Jamstix, haven't found anything else like it. Drums are fun now where they used to be drudgery. Get the demo and like Ralph says, 'just play with it'.

[RRokkenAudio]

I think i'm gonna pick up Jamstix for christmas.. been wanting it for awhile...BTW, what other virtual drummers are there? The only way to have real drums too... is to learn a drummers habits and program them in... its very rewarding.......

~Rob.

[DarkStar]

There's a special deal on at the moment.

http://www.rayzoon.com/buy.html

[bullshark]

Just upgraded to Jamstix3. I never used to use it before, simply because I could never get what I wanted out of it, but now I've found that loading a MIDI loop in it, either one I made myself or one from Groove Monkey or Odd Grouve, that has the basic beat I want and then letting Jamstix do it's thing with it works well.

For that, I set Jamstix on it's own track to output MIDI which I then route to a track holding a drum sampler of some kind(SSD is my favorite at the moment). Still experimenting(and learning), but I find it promising so far.

[BoxOfSnoo]

Yeah there's nothing really similar to Jamstix. To get the best out of it, you have to take some time to understand it and know where everything is, and remember what its purpose is. Like bullshark says, you can feed it a loop and "let it do its thing".

It's also killer cheap for any kind of decent drum software, even if you turn the brain off and just use it as an engine.

[scottedog]

It does take a bit to learn but it's worth it. There is definitely better sounding drums (I feed JS into BFD2 or SSD) but the ones that it comes with are ok.
And they have a rapport with their customers not unlike Reaper.

[shemp]

Originally Posted by scottedog

It does take a bit to learn but it's worth it. There is definitely better sounding drums (I feed JS into BFD2 or SSD) but the ones that it comes with are ok.
And they have a rapport with their customers not unlike Reaper.

Agree. It's a little overwhelming at first but it's not that hard to get a handle on how to use it. Plus their forum is very good. I have Jamstix2. I do the same, I use it to create a midi file, then feed the midi to my SSD sampler for metal songs as the JS2 drum samples are weak IMO for metal. For non metal, they are fine though.

All in all, Jamstix is very cool and unique. Worth the money for sure.

[bloodorangeonline]

I've been trying out the Jamstix demo for a few days and I'm finding it very unstable with REAPER. I get random crashes, and weird graphic glitches happening to my docked FX panel.

I'm in communication with Ralph to try and get it fixed, though, and he's being very helpful, but no luck yet. I hope I can find an answer because I think the program itself seems great and is just what I'm after.

Am I the only one? Is everyone else using Jamstix without any problems? Any tips?

[Milt]

Are you running Reaper 64 bit? I have problems with stability as well when using 64 bit, no problems at all in 32. Ralph is working on it though, and if my experience with Ralph tells me anything, it tells me that he will find the fix.

[bloodorangeonline]

Originally Posted by Milt

Are you running Reaper 64 bit?

No, I'm running 32-bit REAPER on 64-bit Windows 7. I work at 96kHz, though, and Ralph's asked me to try a session at 44.1kHz to see if Jamstix still crashes. I've not got around to doing that yet, but I might have a go today.

[bloodorangeonline]

Originally Posted by bloodorangeonline

I've not got around to doing that yet, but I might have a go today.

I've just tried 44.1kHz, and it looks like I've still got the same problem. I didn't run it long enough to give it chance to crash, but I still got the graphic corruption, which I find off-putting even without any crashes. When I click 'Creat Song' I get this:

[bigwoody]

Originally Posted by Artbay

getting some kind of "virtual drummer software" has been in the back of my mind for a while. i've already got lotsa sounds and loops, but i'm lousy at making them very interesting. what i'm looking for is more an "AI" to play the sounds in a more cool & interesting way - with variations, fills, etc., (not just same ol' loops).

from what i've read in these forums and elsewhere, it sounds like jamstix most closely fits what i'm looking for. can anyone here confirm that choice before i spend any money on it? or is there something better (in that general price range)?

I have EZDrummer including the Nashville, Vintage and Drum Kit from Hell add ons. I also have Jamstix 3. Without starting the discussion of drum sounds (which is a large and emotional discussion) lets talk about the difference in how these play drum parts. Programs like EZD play midi files, either ones you manually create or loops. You can do some really cool stuff, but at the end of the day it will play exactly what is in the midi. Jamstix can do this as well, but much more importantly, it's real strength is creating parts on the fly based on styles (either musical or known drummers). It definitely takes getting used to, but once you get the hang of it, it is almost like telling the drummer, okay do it again but with less high-hat this time, or really rock the fill this time. Now before all the drummers out there get offended, I always prefer working with a real drummer, but it is not always possible and that is not what the OP is asking. For the fundamental difference between the two types of programs Jamstix is the only one that I know of that can create a drum part realtime. I still use both programs depending on the situation, AND use a real drummers when ever possible, but I find myself using Jamstix about 80% of the time when I need a software solution.

For the money, since Jamstix can do both (play midi and compose), I think it is the better buy. Just my opinion.

Bloodorange, I hope you get your issue solved (Ralph is very responsive). I have been using Jamstix for over a year now in Reaper without issue.

[Milt]

bigwoody, are you running Reaper 64 bit? If so, are you using the native Reaper bit bridge, or something like JBridge?

[bigwoody]

Nope I am running Reaper 32bit

[bullshark]

Originally Posted by bloodorangeonline

I've been trying out the Jamstix demo for a few days and I'm finding it very unstable with REAPER. I get random crashes, and weird graphic glitches happening to my docked FX panel.

I'm in communication with Ralph to try and get it fixed, though, and he's being very helpful, but no luck yet. I hope I can find an answer because I think the program itself seems great and is just what I'm after.

Am I the only one? Is everyone else using Jamstix without any problems? Any tips?

No, not the only one. Very unstable here too, I get occasional zipper noise and crash. Feels like I'm always walking on eggs using that plug, I record the MIDI track out of Jamstix and then get rid of it as soon as possible. Also, trying to sub-host is instant crash, why I route the MIDI and record it.

Also put a real damper trying to learn the program when I close my eyes just reaching for a knobs because I'm half expecting smoke to come out of my 'puter as soon as I touch something.

[Milt]

Originally Posted by bigwoody

Nope I am running Reaper 32bit

I don't have any problem using Jamstix in reaper 32 either, just 64. I may give JBridge a try, it's not very exspensive.

[JHughes]

JS3 is too unstable for me to use, but I look forward to the day when I can. There is a fix out that I haven't tried yet:

If you experience instability with 64-bit hosts with Jamstix 3.0.2, please do this:

1) Run Jamstix 3.1 Beta 9

2) Add this line to jamstix3.ini in the [General] section

BarIconNotes=0

[Ed Zeppeli]

Originally Posted by JHughes

JS3 is too unstable for me to use, but I look forward to the day when I can. There is a fix out that I haven't tried yet:

Hey I think you just quoted his response to my thread over at Rayzoon. This did indeed fix my problem.

I bought Jamstix last week and was disappointed at first by these random crashes but I emailed Ralph my .ini file and he made that change. I was up and running again within a few hours of my first contact there. Impressive, but I hope the guy doesn't burn out. lol.

FYI, I'm running Win 7 64 bit and Reaper 64 bit. It's my understanding that they're working on a 64 bit jamstix which will be a free upgrade to existing Jamstix 3 users.

Good luck,

Happy Customer.

[JHughes]

Thanks Ed.

I use Reaper 32 and have stability issues, hopefully the 64 bit fix will work for me too. If not I'll have to find out how to make JS produce an error log.

[bullshark]

3.1 Beta 9 seems to have fixed the issues I was having; been playing for 20 minutes and no zipper noise and not a crash yet, even tried twisting knobs. Cool.

[Ed Zeppeli]

Originally Posted by JHughes

Thanks Ed.

I use Reaper 32 and have stability issues, hopefully the 64 bit fix will work for me too. If not I'll have to find out how to make JS produce an error log.

Try the fix suggestion, it takes a microsecond to do.

that .ini file can be found in your My Documents > Jamstix folder.

[Milt]

You might want to check for the ini file in the folder where the Jamstix dll is located as well. Thats the ini file that Ralph requested from me to help him find a fix.

[Ed Zeppeli]

Originally Posted by Milt

You might want to check for the ini file in the folder where the Jamstix dll is located as well. Thats the ini file that Ralph requested from me to help him find a fix.

My bad, I was thinking of the log files. I believe this is correct. the .ini file is where the .dll is.

[Sheppola]

I've been running Jamstix since JS2 with very few problems on WinXP 32/Reaper 32.When tracking down any faults it's best to start a new Reaper project and add say JS 1st and then other VSTs later to see if there's a VST conflict.

HTH

PS

As above checkout this thread/fix,

http://rayzoon2.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5398

[Artbay]

thanks for all the advice. in the couple of days i've had it, it's already better than i expected, and i've still got tons to learn.

...and it's only locked up once so far...

[jumhed]

This one works for me;

http://www.sonomawireworks.com/products.php

Drumcore. It's very good.

[Jae.Thomas]

Im about to pick up jamstix myself - hopefully it works out the way i hope it will

atm i love using midi grooves - there's really nothing faster than loading up a basic groove with a great, human feel and then adding the desired embellishments. Hopefully jamstix extends that ability.

[Louie]

Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill

Im about to pick up jamstix myself - hopefully it works out the way i hope it will

atm i love using midi grooves - there's really nothing faster than loading up a basic groove with a great, human feel and then adding the desired embellishments. Hopefully jamstix extends that ability.

Jason, I think you'll be pleased. For me, I get what I want out of it so much quicker and easier than messing with midi files. It does have a unique work-flow and a huge learning curve. Once I understood the work-flow, it was easy to get what I wanted most of the time.

[nightscope]

Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill

atm i love using midi grooves - there's really nothing faster than loading up a basic groove with a great, human feel and then adding the desired embellishments. Hopefully jamstix extends that ability.

J, if you haven't seen this check it out. If you have disregard,

Jamstix 3 - Midi Import

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrcn2d4PPe4

ns

[bullshark]

Originally Posted by nightscope

J, if you haven't seen this check it out. If you have disregard,

Jamstix 3 - Midi Import

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrcn2d4PPe4

ns

That's the video that got me interested in Jamstix again, why I upgraded in fact. Just program your basic beat, save as midi, import into Jamstix and you've got the backbone of a song.

[Lokasenna]

It's also handy if you find a Guitar Pro file for a song you want to cover - just export the drums to MIDI, import them in JS, and you're good to go.

[carbon]

Is it possible to to load a MIDI loop into Jamstix and let it play that loop over and over indefinitely, each time a little different - with different accents, embellishments, breaks etc?

For the purpose of backing for improvising.
Sort of like two musicians improvising on a basic idea.

Or do you need to "compose" a very long song with variations, which would be a similar result, but not quite the same?

[Sheppola]

There's lots of ways of doing things like that e.g

If you say want an 8 bar section you can make it a 4 time 2 bar section repeated very easy in it's song editor and then tick it's transition fills and then every four bars something different will be played.
You can also move the,"Power" controls any time you like whilst something is playing and that will vary things as will the feel controls.It is really so absolutely revolutionary that it's like chalk-and-cheese with the normal way one would construct midi drum files.

Get the demo and Check out the forum,

http://rayzoon2.com/forum/

Reaper's support is good,Ralph's is even more personal.

[Dali]

Originally Posted by Sheppola

You can also move the,"Power" controls any time you like whilst something is playing and that will vary things as will the feel controls.It is really so absolutely revolutionary that it's like chalk-and-cheese with the normal way one would construct midi drum files.

Yeah, "Power knob" is a VST envelope so you can use an expression pedal to control your drummer busy-ness. Awesome.

You can also use another VST included with JS that will "listen" to some input and control drummer power with it.

Jamstix was a great find for me too and Rayzoon is as ethical as Cockos is.

Great stuff.

Dali

[Jae.Thomas]

i wish there was a way it could always just load up the same keymap, have just midi out, and send to Superior drummer...Guess I can just make a track template in reaper, but it seems to change things when i switch kits or something

[Wolffman]

Jason

JS3 seems to handle subhosting much better now than JS2 did so now i just load a kit from the Toontrack heading ( inside JS3 ) and JS will ask you to point to the SD2.dll.
Now JS is using all its brain & drummer features etc but playing the sounds from SD2, you'll see in the kit tab that SD2 is subhosted and you can open SD2 from their and you'll see the sounds being triggered in SD2.
As i said this seems to work perfectly now so once you have Jamstix playing the song how you want, record the midi into REAPER, delete JS and have SD2 play the JS made midi drum track.

Only thing is ATM not all the SD2 libs are supported, only Alaire, Hit factory & Avatar i think but most of the EZX libs are there.

Try it out, iy works great here.


Cheers

[Jae.Thomas]

actually, I just tried the subhosting and it crashed on me - this is using the latest beta...

I found the "midi only" button on the mixer page or whatnot, that works fine.

Right now im figuring out how to load midi grooves and turn them into songs, etc... This is really, really interesting. It feels like a whole new thing to learn, however.

[Wolffman]

Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill

actually, I just tried the subhosting and it crashed on me - this is using the latest beta...

Hmmm... thats a bummer, maybe drop Ralph an email discribing what happens, he's always very prompt.

Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill

I found the "midi only" button on the mixer page or whatnot, that works fine.

Yeah, thats how i used to use it as well, if thats working you'll still be able to work fine.

Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill

Right now im figuring out how to load midi grooves and turn them into songs, etc... This is really, really interesting. It feels like a whole new thing to learn, however.

There is a lot to learn in JS but its a lot of fun so its not hard work

The videos on the Rayzoon website are great as well, i found i had to watch them a few times as he covers a lot very quickly.

Cheers

[mabian]

Subhosting is so last decade

Jokes apart, JS3 is much more stable than JS2, and I agree on avoiding subhosting as hell.

- Mario