C aeolian = A minor ?

[RoboPlankton]

Diving in a-la-Karbo....


Ivansc, this post is dedicated to you ! It has some music with it, albeit short.

Coming up is a link to a little improv of mine. The melody starts at the A, top string, fifth fret. Until the D7 arrives, the notes I play are:

A E G A G F# G F, hammer C# to D, Bb D F D C# E F# E D C# E D, C# pull off to G, G.........then to the C of D7 for what becomes a more typical (or maybe not) blues in A.

So, which of these three did I use, with some chromaticism, for the opening melody, up to the D7?:

Am pentatonic: A C D E G A

A7: A C# E G

A Phrygian: A Bb C D E F G A


The correct answer is:

None, or all, or I don't know and don't care. I wasn't thinking about theory, just trying to groove with notes and a feel that seemed cool to me at the time. I use music theory in a very simple way. I think "Okay, an A blues with an opening twist. I'll be moving to a D7 after that.....", and so on. For a twist, I play the same thing over and over with various note changes until I come up with something I like. Basically, I listen to what I'm playing.

Here's a little gem (IMHO ):

If a note doesn't sound right initially, it's often worth sticking with it and somehow MAKING it sound right!

Here's the clip:

https://soundcloud.com/falamanga/feelin-cool

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by RoboPlankton

Diving in a-la-Karbo....


Ivansc, this post is dedicated to you ! It has some music with it, albeit short.
Here's the clip:

https://soundcloud.com/falamanga/feelin-cool

Nice job and nice finger picking! And a great example, here's mine as promised. So, D7 constantly vamping on the left and exploring modal scales on the right, except it hits a C7 in the anything goes section which is forgetting about it all and playing any darn notes I wish including mixing major/minor 3rd, flat 5s and chromatic notes.

I ordered them in least to most complex as far as to how they at first fool the ear (or not)... I left in the flubs, let's just call those little fellas jazz.

http://wallsonic.com/public/posts/ModalFun.mp3

0:02 - D Ionian
0:18 - D Dorian
0:34 - D Phrygian
0:52 - D Lydian
1:12 - Anything goes

[guitarville japan]

Nice stuff guys.

[guitarville japan]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Nice job and nice finger picking! And a great example, here's mine as promised. So, D7 constantly vamping on the left and exploring modal scales on the right, except it hits a C7 in the anything goes section which is forgetting about it all and playing any darn notes I wish including mixing major/minor 3rd, flat 5s and chromatic notes.

I ordered them in least to most complex as far as to how they at first fool the ear... I left in the flubs, let's just call those little fellas jazz.

http://wallsonic.com/public/posts/ModalFun.mp3

0:02 - D Ionian
0:18 - D Dorian
0:34 - D Phrygian
0:52 - D Lydian
1:12 - Anything goes

How can I send you a message?

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by guitarville japan

How can I send you a message?

You can send a PM, but I have seen that fail for people who have never PM'd me. So try it and if it doesn't work, I'll PM you which usually fixes it. Actually, I'll just PM you to simplify.

[ivansc]

Gosh! Actual music, chaps! Well done.

[stratman]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

I agree if you want a classic Dorian sound but since the desired effect varies greatly... I'd play it over D7 any day of the week. Did it tonight at rehearsal sounded great. Playing Dorian over the dominant 7 or just the major is a classic blues technique aka blurring the line between major and minor.

This is logical when you consider that that the Mixolydian is the obvious scale choice for a dominant 7th. But flattening the 3rd, to make things more bluesy, creates the Dorian mode.

So when playing the blues you can think in terms of the Mixolydian with an added minor 3rd, or in terms of the Dorian with an added major 3rd. I tend to think in terms of the latter. And it makes even more sense when you consider that this is the scale you get when you overlay a major pentatonic and a minor pentatonic.

Clapton's solo to Crossroads is a great example of mixing and overlaying major and minor pentatonics in a blues context.

Pete

[RoboPlankton]

^^^^

Thanks stratman, some good points there.

This thread from Mike Dodge is worth perusal, delving more deeply into the subject:

http://mikedodge.freeforums.org/blue...ained-t23.html

[RoboPlankton]

About modes......

Jazz guitar forums can be interesting, when players talk about modes, and who first played what in 1951, and the Lydian approach.....I'm not knocking it, it's all art and takes years of conscientious study and practice to play good jazz guitar.

But I look at modes like this........

We hear so much music throughout our lives, and a lot of it contains what are known as "safe" notes - in key, not unexpected, run-of-the-mill (not knocking it ).

So when, for example, Richie Blackmore, started going doolally in Phrygian/Hungarian Minor.........IT STOOD OUT. It was DIFFERENT. Many good songs/tunes have a "surprise note" in them. Someone "went modal" for four bars, and this can be analyzed until the cows come home.

But all they did was sharp or flat a note because it SOUNDED GOOD!

Listen to what you play. Play stuff, then sharp of flat various notes in the piece. Figure out what works.

For you!

[karbomusic]

Clapton's solo to Crossroads is a great example of mixing and overlaying major and minor pentatonics in a blues context.

Right and there is much to be said of simply blurring that line and forgetting about modes, hitting the minor third and bending to the major etc. or even half that far in between the two. It's everywhere in blues where it's much more of including both major and minor third (and 6ths and flat 5) and the interplay. The blues breakers album which I learned many years ago is a fine example of it I think. Thanks for such a great example.

I never actually think of "modes" or any of this until I have to find a way to play over something I don't know or need to find a way to play over based on some condition. Outside of that and threads such as these, after learning modes, they are never in the forefront as I'm much more of an emotional feel/improv player. I'm not afraid to play most any note (in the scale or not), I just have to know when/where.

[morgon]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Right and there is much to be said of simply blurring that line and forgetting about modes, hitting the minor third and bending to the major etc. or even half that far in between the two. It's everywhere in blues where it's much more of including both major and minor third (and 6ths and flat 5) and the interplay. The blues breakers album which I learned many years ago is a fine example of it I think. Thanks for such a great example.

I never actually think of "modes" or any of this until I have to find a way to play over something I don't know or need to find a way to play over based on some condition. Outside of that and threads such as these, after learning modes, they are never in the forefront as I'm much more of an emotional feel/improv player. I'm not afraid to play most any note (in the scale or not), I just have to know when/where.

Thats ^^^ my pov too, the theory comes in handy to 'steady the ship' esp in modulating chord progs where you want a melodic approach.