Old 08-06-2020, 06:49 AM   #1
musicbynumbers
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Default v6.13+dev0806 - August 6 2020

v6.13+dev0806 - August 6 2020
  • + Actions: fix behavior of actions to cut/delete items within time selection with ripple edit enabled
  • # Area selection: fix mouse modifier to split one area selection
  • # Media explorer: fix adjusting pitch/rate while MIDI preview is loaded but not playing [p=2328302]
  • # Media explorer: fix option to hide file extension
  • # Theme: fix positioning of theme cursor image
This thread is for pre-release features discussion. Use the Feature Requests forum for other requests.

Changelog - Pre-Releases

Generated by X-Raym's REAPER ChangeLog to BBCode
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Old 08-06-2020, 06:59 AM   #2
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Media Explorer:

For some reason it is still impossible to navigate with Home key in file section, while End, PageUp and PageDown work perfectly.

This kind of navigation would be also welcomed (clicking a folder/arrow in a path for faster navigation):

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Old 08-06-2020, 09:23 AM   #3
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Default Left drag area selection

Is 'arrange view LEFT drag' to create area selection going to be implemented? Is there a reason for it not being there? It feels wierd making these selections with right drag.
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Old 08-06-2020, 09:34 AM   #4
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In some situations, this is convenient because no need to pinch keys to avoid dragging and dropping other items
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fsd...ew?usp=sharing
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Old 08-06-2020, 09:49 AM   #5
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By just changing the mouse button, we change the tool. Either we drag and drop items, or draw an area selection or a marquee selection
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Old 08-06-2020, 10:04 AM   #6
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bug?: if I copy an area selection(CTRL+C)... then go to another empty project and paste(CTRL+V)... the area is pasted correctly, and new tracks are created but empty, without their fx chains and attributes. It works when selecting tracks, copy and paste in another project. But not when copy pasting area selections. If the tracks exist in the new project I would expect current as good, without modifying the tracks. But if the tracks don't exist where pasting, it would be nice if the tracks are copied too.
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Old 08-06-2020, 01:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitalker View Post
For some reason it is still impossible to navigate with Home key in file section, while End, PageUp and PageDown work perfectly.
I think that's because the action shortcuts have a higher priority than the listview keystroke handling, and the home key is mapped to "Preview: rewind to start" by default. If you remove that mapping, the keystroke should be handled by the listview.
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Old 08-06-2020, 01:20 PM   #8
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I think that's because the action shortcuts have a higher priority than the listview keystroke handling, and the home key is mapped to "Preview: rewind to start" by default. If you remove that mapping, the keystroke should be handled by the listview.
Could it work base on the focus? Both options are actually expected.
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Old 08-06-2020, 01:44 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by bFooz View Post
Could it work base on the focus? Both options are actually expected.
If you have an action mapped in the media explorer, I think you want the action to work when the listview is focused (given that it's usually focused).
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Old 08-06-2020, 02:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanick View Post
By just changing the mouse button, we change the tool. Either we drag and drop items, or draw an area selection or a marquee selection
Hmm... not sold, the best thing would be to have a choice. I bet a lot of users will use the area selection instead of time selection, and already have it on left drag in muscle memory. Please implement this crossing my fingers, and thank you!
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Old 08-06-2020, 03:06 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by heda View Post
bug?: if I copy an area selection(CTRL+C)... then go to another empty project and paste(CTRL+V)... the area is pasted correctly, and new tracks are created but empty, without their fx chains and attributes. It works when selecting tracks, copy and paste in another project. But not when copy pasting area selections. If the tracks exist in the new project I would expect current as good, without modifying the tracks. But if the tracks don't exist where pasting, it would be nice if the tracks are copied too.
To my understanding this behaves correctly (or as expected) as area selection is a way to select items and time, not tracks. It behaves similar as if you copied the items itself and paste in a new empty project.
Not to say it couldn't be nice if it (optionally) behaves as you suggest.
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Old 08-06-2020, 03:19 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by rasmusmarshagen View Post
I bet a lot of users will use the area selection instead of time selection, and already have it on left drag in muscle memory.
Already doing so. In my configuration, Time selection is now linked to loop points and used only for selecting sections of Arrangement to loop and/or render.


So for what it's worth, here's another +1 to including Area selection among functions available for "Track" > "left drag".
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Old 08-06-2020, 03:22 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by rasmusmarshagen View Post
Hmm... not sold, the best thing would be to have a choice. I bet a lot of users will use the area selection instead of time selection, and already have it on left drag in muscle memory. Please implement this crossing my fingers, and thank you!
If you've got long enough fingers, just switch mouse buttons that way Seriously thanks devs, getting ever nearer 'Toggle TS/AS'.
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Old 08-07-2020, 12:00 AM   #14
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If you've got long enough fingers, just switch mouse buttons that way Seriously thanks devs, getting ever nearer 'Toggle TS/AS'.
Haha!!
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Old 08-07-2020, 03:01 AM   #15
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Area Selection - small glitch on playback to end of project when pasted.

When AS is dragged as a copy, the playback to end of project is working as expected
But if a selection is instead copy/pasted, the arrangement needs a refresh for it to work:



.
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Old 08-07-2020, 03:20 AM   #16
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Possible bug - I'm seeing the leading path in search results in media explorer even when that option is turned off.
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Old 08-07-2020, 03:29 AM   #17
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Area Selection timebase should have its own setting rather than follow the "items / envelope / markers" setting.

If we work primarily with MIDI but with a fixed reference, for example in film scoring, we want to have our markers timebase set to "Time", but this make area selection useless for copying and moving MIDI unless if we change the timebase everytime time.

This is also an extremely strong argument for giving markers there own timebase setting since in film scoring we will often have sounds on the MIDI grid and automation, and we obviously want them to move with our MIDI when changing tempos or copying sections, but without ever moving our markers which are synced to the picture.
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Old 08-07-2020, 03:36 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
Possible bug - I'm seeing the leading path in search results in media explorer even when that option is turned off.
Same here although it's not the full leading path. Is this related to Options>Show>Folders option? I can't see what that option actually does as changing it seems to do nothing.
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Old 08-07-2020, 04:13 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rasmusmarshagen View Post
Is 'arrange view LEFT drag' to create area selection going to be implemented? Is there a reason for it not being there? It feels wierd making these selections with right drag.
Use left mouse button for area selection (perform until shortcut released)
lua script: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1150...ew?usp=sharing
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Old 08-07-2020, 04:52 AM   #20
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Another +1 to Area Selection for track-left drag and media item-left drag contexts.

Just a notice: it would be really awesome if this happens, to have a separate context for media item label as well.
Then if we have the same media item modifiers for media item label, it would make life easier to move,copy,etc..items from the label area and use the space below label(media item context) for area selection. And both could be used as the default modifiers (move item from label context, create area selection from media item context)
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Old 08-07-2020, 05:03 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
Possible bug - I'm seeing the leading path in search results in media explorer even when that option is turned off.
If you are searching on subfolders, then you will always see the unique leading path. The option controls whether you see the full path or the unique leading path.

For example if you have these files:

users/schwa/docs/aaa/foo.wav
users/schwa/docs/aaa/bbb/foo.wav

and search for "foo", you'll either see those two full paths if the option is enabled, or if the option is disabled you'll see:

foo.wav
bbb/foo.wav


at least that's the intention.
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Old 08-07-2020, 05:52 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
If you are searching on subfolders, then you will always see the unique leading path. The option controls whether you see the full path or the unique leading path.

For example if you have these files:

users/schwa/docs/aaa/foo.wav
users/schwa/docs/aaa/bbb/foo.wav

and search for "foo", you'll either see those two full paths if the option is enabled, or if the option is disabled you'll see:

foo.wav
bbb/foo.wav



at least that's the intention.
Thanks for clarifying. It would be great to get an option to remove those leading paths if possible and revert to the previous listing style... I 100% understand why some people would prefer to have the leading paths for subfolders all the time, but I do think most people would prefer to see this -



than this -

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Old 08-07-2020, 06:37 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiiscompos View Post
Area Selection timebase should have its own setting rather than follow the "items / envelope / markers" setting.

If we work primarily with MIDI but with a fixed reference, for example in film scoring, we want to have our markers timebase set to "Time", but this make area selection useless for copying and moving MIDI unless if we change the timebase everytime time.

This is also an extremely strong argument for giving markers there own timebase setting since in film scoring we will often have sounds on the MIDI grid and automation, and we obviously want them to move with our MIDI when changing tempos or copying sections, but without ever moving our markers which are synced to the picture.
A long standing request: markers should also have their own timebase setting, independent from items. Emphasizing what Swisscomp already pointed out. We film composers are always working in 2 areas simultaneously: time and bars/beats.

We add hit-points in the time realm (picture reference). When we now add new time signatures or tempo changes, the markers ALWAYS move along. That's why I'm not using them at all.
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Old 08-07-2020, 07:27 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by _Stevie_ View Post
A long standing request: markers should also have their own timebase setting, independent from items. Emphasizing what Swisscomp already pointed out. We film composers are always working in 2 areas simultaneously: time and bars/beats.

We add hit-points in the time realm (picture reference). When we now add new time signatures or tempo changes, the markers ALWAYS move along. That's why I'm not using them at all.
Agreed. This would be really handy for working to picture
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Old 08-07-2020, 07:34 AM   #25
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Thanks for clarifying. It would be great to get an option to remove those leading paths if possible and revert to the previous listing style... I 100% understand why some people would prefer to have the leading paths for subfolders all the time, but I do think most people would prefer to see this -



than this -

Yes I would much prefer to see only the filename in the filename field. My SFX library is hundreds of gigs, several sub folders deep. A persistent leading path means that there's a whole string of subfolders in the filename field before I see the actual filename. Would it not be better to make the leading path its own field?
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Old 08-07-2020, 07:54 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Embass View Post
Use left mouse button for area selection (perform until shortcut released)
lua script: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1150...ew?usp=sharing
How do I make this work?

I've installed js_ReaScript v1.215, and loaded this script so it shows up in Actions list, but after that?
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Old 08-07-2020, 08:44 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n997 View Post
How do I make this work?
1. Assign shortcut in action list.
2. Hold shortcut and left drag in arrange window.
gif: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Xtb...ew?usp=sharing

Mouse modifiers for arrange view should look like this:
image: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eQW...ew?usp=sharing
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Old 08-07-2020, 08:55 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Embass View Post
1. Assign shortcut in action list.
2. Hold shortcut and left drag in arrange window.
gif: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Xtb...ew?usp=sharing

Mouse modifiers for arrange view should look like this:
image: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eQW...ew?usp=sharing
Got it, thanks!
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Old 08-07-2020, 09:38 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Embass View Post
1. Assign shortcut in action list.
2. Hold shortcut and left drag in arrange window.
gif: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Xtb...ew?usp=sharing

Mouse modifiers for arrange view should look like this:
image: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eQW...ew?usp=sharing
Eventhough I totally appreciate what you have done, this can't be seen as a final solution, since this script basically swaps all RMB actions to the LMB.
This could cause all kinds of unwanted behaviors. So, I still want to underline that a native solution is highly anticipated.
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Old 08-07-2020, 09:41 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
Thanks for clarifying. It would be great to get an option to remove those leading paths if possible and revert to the previous listing style... I 100% understand why some people would prefer to have the leading paths for subfolders all the time, but I do think most people would prefer to see this -



than this -

YES, please go back to the way it was previously. Its a mess like this
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Old 08-07-2020, 10:40 AM   #31
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Didn't see it listed as fixed but that weird issue with My Computer not showing any drives after having right-scrolled a DB in the Media Explorer has been fixed with this latest build.
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Old 08-07-2020, 05:45 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Embass View Post
1. Assign shortcut in action list.
2. Hold shortcut and left drag in arrange window.
gif: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Xtb...ew?usp=sharing

Mouse modifiers for arrange view should look like this:
image: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eQW...ew?usp=sharing
So this just flips the mouse buttons ?
Could it toggle so you can put it on a toolbar button and flip between marquee select or marquee area select on the left ?
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Old 08-07-2020, 08:26 PM   #33
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So this just flips the mouse buttons ?
script programmatically clicks right button when you click left button.

you can use this action to swap mouse modifiers for arrange view:
Mouse modifiers: Swap arrange view right-drag modifiers for marquee item selection and marquee area selection
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Old 08-07-2020, 11:06 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by rasmusmarshagen View Post
Hmm... not sold, the best thing would be to have a choice. I bet a lot of users will use the area selection instead of time selection, and already have it on left drag in muscle memory. Please implement this crossing my fingers, and thank you!
Indeed. Another +1 from me
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Old 08-08-2020, 05:08 AM   #35
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Indeed. Another +1 from me
I'm 100% for this, as it works with Left Drag in virtually every other DAW.

However, people pushing for it : how would it work without getting in the way of every other left-drag operation? I want this very badly, but foresee a trillion ways of this accidentally doing other things.

ie.
1. slip edit if you're too close to the content of the media item
2. move envelope segment preserving edgepoints if over an envelope
3. resize media item if near item edge

Right now it just does its thing, every time, no aiming for any special part of the track or item, you just Alt-Right-Drag for a perfect selection every time.

If there were "Tool Switching Contexts" in Reaper, sure. But if it's all mixed together depending on context of click/drag location, I just see this being a mess to use Left Drag for yet another thing.

As an option though, sure.

Last edited by ferropop; 08-08-2020 at 05:18 AM.
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Old 08-08-2020, 05:44 AM   #36
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However, people pushing for it : how would it work without getting in the way of every other left-drag operation? I want this very badly, but foresee a trillion ways of this accidentally doing other things.
Regarding a solution for this, i posted also above that it would help a lot if we had another context, Media item Label context.
We could use The label context to move,copy,split,slip edit the media items and the main media item context to create area selection. Or the opposite as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ferropop View Post

If there were "Tool Switching Contexts" in Reaper, sure. But if it's all mixed together depending on context of click/drag location, I just see this being a mess to use Left Drag for yet another thing.

As an option though, sure.
Since we can't change the left drag modifiers other than inside mouse modifiers, now it's impossible to change fast the functions for the tool we want to use.

Also in the past i had posted about something similar. Now the only way to change the modifiers and actually use them as "tools", is if we previously saved a bunch of different presets(mousemaps) for mouse modifier contexts, and then load them from the mouse modifier preset menu. My suggestion was to be able and save those presets as actions, so we could use them as tools. So having the actions on the toolbar with the mouse modifers presets for contexts, we could use them as tools for the task we want.

Here's my related feature requests

For Item Label
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=226594

For tool picker
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=237324

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=227108
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Old 08-08-2020, 05:55 AM   #37
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The elegance and simplicity of editing in REAPER is the tool less interface.

From the last pre thread...

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I think the root problem with AS and left-drag is the complexity of things performed in the Arrange View with the left mouse button in REAPER's tool-less environment; as the more specifdic Modifiers (media item, MI edge, envelope points, SMs, etc) take precedence over the broader left drag aspect of Track or Arrange MM, you don't get free rein over where you drag in arrange without dragging destructive furrows through your existing project.

Set the "Alt" MM on Track|Left drag to Marquee Select or Marquee zoom and try to use it in a crowded editing area. Unless you start over background trackspace, you are going to Alt-Left-drag media items, stretch markers or envelopes in some way. Left button MMs are too congested a method for Arrange.

Other DAW environments tend to use tools, and so what you can manipulate with the left button is more controlled in the tool-space that you are in for their AS. If in REAPER you disabled the Left Drag MM actions for higher-layer objects like media items and their contents to allow unrestricted Left Drag landing points, you would need tools or modes creating to replace that functionality.

Right button drag is much more sparse by comparison, and I'm sure that is why the default MMs for Marquee select, marquee zoom and AS are set to right-button-drag. To be honest, it can be a little odd getting used to it, but I prefer this over losing the tool-less environment to gain left-drag AS.

. . .

We went through this before on Marquee Select on version 3 or 4 (I think). Left Drag was added to Track section of the MMs, but I still think after trying both methods that Right Drag is easier for myself. I think LD should be there as an option with RD as default, and let everyone work it through...

For DAWs with tool-select, itís easier to allow a LD unimpeded scope. REAPER works a different way and Iím not sure everyone realises the items, etc take precedence over the background in arrange, restricting the landing area for the left button in any editing mouse drag.



>
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Old 08-08-2020, 06:18 AM   #38
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For DAWs with tool-select, itís easier to allow a LD unimpeded scope. REAPER works a different way and Iím not sure everyone realises the items, etc take precedence over the background in arrange, restricting the landing area for the left button in any editing mouse drag.
>
In other Daw's when you re selecting a tool, it's like changing the mouse modifiers for contexts comparing it to Reaper.
So as an example in Cubase, if i select the area selection tool, left drag creates an area selection, where ctrl+left click extends the area vertically or horizontally.
If i select the splitting tool, with default left drag now i can move the item, while with left click i can split the item and with alt+left click to split the item in sections.
If i select the selection tool, again it changes the left drag/left click modifiers for different contexts relative to that tool.

The only way i can think of that Reaper could behave the same way, is if we could save mousemap presets as actions and use them as tools, because now we can load mousemap presets only from the mouse modifiers menu.



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Old 08-08-2020, 06:21 AM   #39
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The biggest thing is that Right-Drag on a trackpad (ie Macbook) is an exercise in dexterity and blood pressure control. Yeah you can assign Control as your "Right Mouse" modifier, and this works ok but again it's finger gymnastics for what is quite possibly the most useful tool to an editor.

If you don't use Control As Right Mouse, you have to hold Option while trying to do a two-finger-in-the-bottom-corner gesture, while dragging with your left hand lol. It is literally not possible. On other DAWs you just Left-Drag.

Ugh it's seriously a tough call

Last edited by ferropop; 08-08-2020 at 06:40 AM.
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Old 08-08-2020, 07:03 AM   #40
planetnine
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Originally Posted by Vagelis View Post
In other Daw's when you re selecting a tool, it's like changing the mouse modifiers for contexts comparing it to Reaper.
So as an example in Cubase, if i select the area selection tool, left drag creates an area selection, where ctrl+left click extends the area vertically or horizontally.
If i select the splitting tool, with default left drag now i can move the item, while with left click i can split the item and with alt+left click to split the item in sections.
If i select the selection tool, again it changes the left drag/left click modifiers for different contexts relative to that tool.

The only way i can think of that Reaper could behave the same way, is if we could save mousemap presets as actions and use them as tools, because now we can load mousemap presets only from the mouse modifiers menu.

. . .

But the best bit about REAPER editing is its Tool-less interface. The whole of the ergonomics is built around not having to repeatedly move the mouse cursor to a tool palette to change tools.

You would give up all that workflow fluidity rather than swap fingers for selecting an editing area..? I donít think REAPER has to emulate other DAWs to that degree.




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