Old 08-06-2012, 08:59 AM   #41
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@serr - Some of the top/most mission-critical audio software is either Windows only, or started there ... Pyramix, Sadie and Sequoia. Cedar Cambridge runs on a tricked-out Windows system. Audio Precision solutions and Prism Sound's dScope control software is Windows only.

Then there's Samplitude (will be available for OSX by the end of the year apparently), Wavelab (only very recently available for OSX, on which it's kind of rough around the edges).

Then there's Reaper, which is better on Windows ...

And this is from a life-time OSX user
I guess I'll have to try some of your mission critical software then! Lucky me that it will simply install and run in OSX.

I don't think the Win version of Reaper runs better from the comments I read on this forum. But I do sense a way above normal level of stability for Win users. I have recommended it to a few Win users I know and they were very happy. First time they were able to do any audio work successfully on their Win machines.

Again, if I was starting over I just might consider a Windows system today. Things are a LOT closer than they used to be there's no doubt. But if you look at the hardware available and compare features you still find certain professional products from Apple competitive. No one else makes a laptop to these specs for example.

I agree that their consumer products are expensive and silly. Some of their apps are very un-apple like (Logic Audio Hell for one). The app store is an epic fail. The watered down OSX for the mobile devices (iOS) is an epic fail. 10.7 had glaring bugs and they just abandoned it - first time I've seen that...
Hence my comment that they need to get back on their game if they want to keep their professional market.

I really see things going more towards the open source direction (Linux) and I think Reaper would fit well in that camp.

I will say the concept of the Mac Mini is interesting.
Need more processing power? Just plug another Mac Mini in via thunderbolt and cluster them for parallel processing.

We'll see what happens.
Everyone should examine their needs carefully and purchase equipment accordingly. For me, the Mac is still the most efficient option. At the moment.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:01 AM   #42
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When Mac moved over to OS X they ditched support for Classic virtually overnight.
Apple supported Classic up to OS X 10.4 and supported PPC up to 10.5. Your system could have easily run both of these versions and still had an OS 9 dual boot partition to support legacy applications (or just used the classic environment straight out of 10.4).

At any rate, the real problem back in the OS 9 to OS X transition days was third party developers had to go and figure out how to get their software to work in a whole new system. From a practical standpoint, there was such a low amount of software support for OS X in the early 2000's it made more sense to just keep running OS 9 if you already had all the software. Heck, it's not like the old software became useless overnight, one could still do everything they did the day before. I didn't upgrade to OS X until I bought a new system with 10.3 on it (early 2005!) Even after that I set up a dual boot OS 9 and OS X 10.4 on my old blue and white G3 powermac (450MHz processor) and all my design applications run fine in both OSs. It's not the fastest but it's workable.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:40 AM   #43
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At any rate, the real problem back in the OS 9 to OS X transition days was third party developers had to go and figure out how to get their software to work in a whole new system. From a practical standpoint, there was such a low amount of software support for OS X in the early 2000's it made more sense to just keep running OS 9 if you already had all the software. Heck, it's not like the old software became useless overnight, one could still do everything they did the day before.
I'm sure your dates are correct. However as far as I can remember I was running OS9.1 and needed to upgrade to 9.2 to accommodate a new purchased plug-in and was told by my Mac Supplier that they were no longer supporting Mac Classic software! So to me it seemed a pretty dramatic situation, especially as it had only been a few months since I had bought into Apple Mac, had now a very successful graphics business up and running and now I was dumped. The few people I knew involved in graphics businesses were all extremely pissed-off with Apple at the time. (I've never forgiven them).

I managed to run OS9 successfully for another few years with no additional costs until I eventually dropped the graphics business. Although I have to add I know of one graphics company here in the UK who had to shell out £21,000 (for upgrading 3 Apple Mac work stations plus software) to make the jump to stay on the Mac bandwagon. However you choose to look at it that's NOT customer friendly and that was the main point of my previous thread.

I'm glad I came back to the PC platform -- despite my Mac friends who all said that once I'd got used to a Mac I'd never go back to a PC.

Just goes to show how wrong people can be.

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Old 08-06-2012, 11:33 AM   #44
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I guess I'll have to try some of your mission critical software then! Lucky me that it will simply install and run in OSX.
Crossover/Wine? I haven't tried audio software with those applications; maybe it works better than I expect?

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Everyone should examine their needs carefully and purchase equipment accordingly. For me, the Mac is still the most efficient option. At the moment.
Yep, and same here.
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:47 AM   #45
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Isn't Windows performance way better than Mac, especially in low latency settings?

http://www.dawbench.com/win7-v-osx-1.htm
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:35 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by anderssvensson View Post
Isn't Windows performance way better than Mac, especially in low latency settings?

http://www.dawbench.com/win7-v-osx-1.htm
OSX 10.6. is a bit old, we are at 10.8. now.

My recent very unscientific test with a Presonus FireStudio 2626 on my MacBook Pro (see signature) vs Win7 i7 12GB showed better low latency performance with my MacBook.
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:10 PM   #47
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Why is Mac So Popular?

Because all the MIDI functions in Reaper work SO much better on a Mac..
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:25 PM   #48
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OSX 10.6. is a bit old, we are at 10.8. now.
10.6 is as old as Windows 7. Wow must be a huge difference... or not. And as if Windows hadn't been improved as well since the test was made?!
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:29 PM   #49
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Just a general comment more than anything here...

I don't like when PC users assume that mac users are somehow less informed, have been duped by marketing, or any other negative connotation you'd like to throw in there. I've been using computers since the PET and I am well aware of what is available in the world of computers, as are many other Mac users. It's not a matter of bright lights and shiny things.

I think this sums it up nicely, courtesy of Arstechnica:

"The fact is, we are not the center of the market, and haven't been for a long time. Three decades ago, the personal computer industry was built on the backs of technology enthusiasts. Every product, every ad was created to please us. No longer. Technology must now work for everyone, not just "computing enthusiasts."

"This new thing that the Mac is becoming, its outlines slowly coming into focus in Mountain Lion, is meant to allow people who were previously intimidated by the Mac to use it to accomplish more than they could with a touch-based platform like iOS, but with similar ease.""

This is what has made the mac and it's platform popular. That said I've heard great things about Windows 8 and I would like to buy a PC this year.

And in case anyone is thinking this Arstechnica review is just blowing sunshine up Apple's proverbial... well... here's another couple quotes:

" The war for the desktop ended years ago. (Spoiler alert: Microsoft won.)"

...and this one

"But the biggest threat to Apple's success is not the company with the most innovative devices and OS (arguably, still Microsoft); it's the one with the most powerful, successful suite of online services—Google."

Anyhoo... just so we're clear a great many Mac users do know a lot about computers and their decision is an informed one. Honestly I don't care what I'm using, as long as my software runs.

Here's the whole 25 page review of Mountain Lion if you're looking for some light reading

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/07/os-x-10-8/
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Old 08-06-2012, 03:12 PM   #50
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There was once a time,long long ago,when Macs were WAYYY more user friendly for the non techie minded creative person.Thus those creative types adopted Mac and most stayed with it once there.I was one of them,until I realised windoze had caught up,and so the lure of cheaper higher powered machines won me over.
This is it.

People still think it's 1995.

Also, Apple made it into the studio first.
Why is Pro Tools the industry standard?
It's not because it's so great, but because it got there first and got established.
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Old 08-06-2012, 03:18 PM   #51
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I think stability had a much larger role in the reason for it staying there. With the mac stuff it's a very limited set of hardware options that the software has to work with, where the PC has virtually unlimited combinations of hardware configurations. I think this is why they stuck with the mac stuff in those fields. Nothing to do with the OS at all really. With limited hardware the developers job is that much easier.
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Old 08-06-2012, 03:19 PM   #52
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Cool. How was the whole install process? Any hiccups? Definitely considering a hackintosh for my next system.
Stick to the fully supported components and it should be no problem. I spent a few weeks researching here and around the net:

http://www.tonymacx86.com/home.php

There's user builds and 'golden builds' detailed in the forums too.

I went with the Z77-UD5H motherboard since it's a UEFI bios and just about everything is supported out of the box by OSX.

I had one issue where OSX wasn't installing with both my sticks of ram in place (8g each) where as windows would install fine. I eventually discovered one stick of ram was faulty (just my luck) and got the set replaced for free and have had no issues since then. I've built it for video editing/grading as well as audio and it's a real monster. Now that i've stress tested the machine and burned all the components in i will have a go at overclocking the CPU.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:18 PM   #53
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10.6 is as old as Windows 7. Wow must be a huge difference... or not. And as if Windows hadn't been improved as well since the test was made?!
Either way, makes the test redundant for current comparisons.
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:06 AM   #54
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Originally, Macs were popular in graphics studios because of the way text is rendered on a screen. Windows is primarily designed for reading clear text on a screen in offices, whereas Mac text rendering is closer to what you see when you print what's on screen onto a page.

.....

The reliability has decreased from what it was. I've been a Mac technician for the last 7 years and can vouch for several dips in quality of hardware over the last few of them. There have been usually improvements again after these dips, but the Mac is not the solid system it once was. I'm always amused by people who defend the system who never actually used Macs in the G5 days when it was genuinely worth defending as a great bit of kit.

.....

I still use a Mac personally, but Snow Leopard is where I'm staying until this laptop dies and I'm forced to upgrade.

...

Thank god for Reaper - I'm so glad I left Logic behind when I did...
Cannot agree more. That kind of Wysiwig by Apple's default is crucial for me. Maybe I'm too picky or simply obsessive about that, but windows makes me nervous in that department.

I switched to this current Hackintosh build from my PowerMac G5 running OS 10.4 about a year ago. That setup started to be outdated about compatibility. Now I'm stuck in Snow Leopard 10.6.8 and don't feel the need at all to jump to the Lion or the last feline. Though it runs fine and smooth, things are not as stable and solid as in the last versions of 10.4 over PowerPCs. Still a more stable OS than any Win PC build I had. I tried a few Linux distros in the past and settled in Ubuntu for a long while, But I don't have enough time/motivation to tweak the OS every time. Mac is stable, easy and smooth enough for now. If they screw it at some point I'll switch to Linux for sure.

Don't know how good Remix OS works and I don't like Ardour at all. But won't pay for any OS constantly causing me nervous breakdowns. At least I'll be getting the OS for free.

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Old 08-07-2012, 04:58 AM   #55
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PCs are great for gaming!





... but also for everything else!

I'm a Mac user.. but my next desktop will be PC for sure.. Laptops... hummm.. probably not.. need Firewire!

cheers
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:27 AM   #56
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Well said Snap.
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:10 AM   #57
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Being an old "scrote", I can remember back in the days of Windows 3.1, when a decent decsktop cost at least £1000, a Soundscape non-linear system £2500, a Tascam DA88 £3,500 and that didn't include external drives etc.
The almost 5 year old Macbook I'm writing this on has never let me down, has survived a 5 foot drop, is almost as fast as the day it was bought, and has never made me feel sick with anger like all my PC's have.
So it depends on how you judge value for money, I would rather not own a computer than go back, too many unhappy memories..
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:35 AM   #58
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I bought a iMac 4 months ago and enjoy it every day, both for audio and personal use. I always seemed to be spending time trying to fix something (interface not working, error messages etc) with my PC, so by the time I got it working up to snuff i was frustrated enough not to work on music.

But before I bought the Mac I did my research through forums, reviews, youtube, and the Apple Store (It seemed to daily I was at the mall) playing around and drilling the apple guys with questions over and over. I think the workers hated me!!

My main DAW I use is Cubase 5 and it runs so much nicer now then it ever did. I now have been playing with Logic more and more.

Bottom line for me is "it just works"!!!!!!
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:42 AM   #59
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EMagic needs to boogie down the line IMHO, go back to it's roots.
I had Logic Siver PC just for audio and MIDI. Worked great for playback.

I have ALL Mac friends, and the studios here as well. Logic is the best host and while the owners claim that they'll still use their PT rigs to record, they are Logic Mac die hards.

Foxconn Mobos using Xeon higher binned parts was a great advantage for a long time.
But ever since this Mountain Lion stuff showed up, then they released the weak Retina, audio guys are selling their Macs and going to other DAWs like DP.
This is my immediate circle of friends, and associates.
But you must admit Logics ESX sampler is awesome, the best and now owning Redmatica who knows what can be achieved.
But I wish they'd leave the iPhone iPad guys to do their gigs, and free up Logic to a company that actually wants to excell the application, it has so much maturity and potential.
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Old 08-07-2012, 10:15 AM   #60
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When I was running PCs I had few issues with stability. I think the worst was a printer dll file or some damn thing and the only way I could get it to work was a clean install of the OS... took me 2 months of trying to figure that mess out. But other than that I never had issues with stability on PC.

The reason I switched to Mac was that when PT LE was released with Mbox it was mac only, so I bought a Mac and have been using them since.

When I got my indigo blue iMac I spent about 90 minutes trying to get my photos off cd... file export/import I tried everything... then discovered drag and drop... how embarrassing.

I have had hardware issues with macs over the years. 2 HDs crashed and died, 1 Motherboard issue on macbook (fixed by Apple 6 months after recall expired for known issue free of charge), and one superdrive in iLamp. All hardware is made in China pretty much so I think PC and Mac are on equal ground there.
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:31 AM   #61
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I switched from Windows to Mac a couple of years ago, and I will probably never go back.

The usability gap between Windows and Macs used to be MUCH wider than it is today. But much of the reason for that is that OSX is so user-friendly and effective that there isn't a lot of room for improvement - unlike Windows. OSX really hit the consumers in 2001 and hasn't changed a great deal since, particularly the internals. Remember the state of Windows then? Windows ME? Windows 2000 was the GOOD version. Since then, Windows has gone through two major successful upgrade cycles (XP and 7) and a total lemon (Vista), in Windows 8 is as-yet untested in the real world (and I suspect it'll suck again). Worse, Windows has to keep backwards compatibility to some truly awful architecture - 8.3 filenames (they're still in there, don't let the paint and glitter fool you. Start programming for reals and you'll see), the Registry... ugh. Windows is a highly polished turd these days, but it's still a turd inside. OSX made a conscious decision to break HARD from the MacOS legacy of 7/9 - it forced a painful transition on users a decade ago, but the long-term benefits are obvious. The OSX on a Mac is essentially the same OS that drives every other Apple product - iPhones/iPads, iPods, etc.

So yeah, Windows doesn't suck nearly as much as it used to, at least on the surface. But Apple still has the edge when you get beneath the surface, because core functionality like the filesystem doesn't suck.

As for the hardware... PC hardware costs half as much IF you're compromising your quality and getting cheap components. But get to things like the case, keyboard, screen, video card, and the differences are palpable. It's like the difference between a Hyundai and a Mercedes. Close the door and listen to the sound, you'll hear it. I've bought two Macbooks and three PC laptops in the past couple of years, for various people (including me). Mid-grade PC laptops don't hold a candle to the Macbooks in construction quality or usability. Don't believe me? Try closing the lid to put it to sleep, then opening the lid again. Try using the mousepad. Try typing.

Backups are another huge win. The Macbook sitting in my lap is backed up wirelessly and transparently, wherever I am in the house. I've used Time Machine for everything from rescuing yesterday's version of a file to restoring a whole disk to moving my entire world to a new Macbook, painlessly. A couple of years ago, a hard drive failure on my old Windows workstation cost me gigabytes of files (including 2/3 of my 2008 photography, about 6000 photos), despite using TWO incremental backup systems. That was the incident that pushed me over the edge - not to mention the endless driver conflicts and other BS that is par for the course with Windows. It took me two weeks and three different Firewire cards to get my Focusrite Liquid 56 working with Windows. With the Mac, it took plugging it in. Was Windows "cheaper"? Sure, if you don't count two weeks of lost work and another $100 in hardware experiments.

As for "more software on Windows"... well, if you play games I suppose. Every single app that I actually USE (Reaper, Reason, Native Instruments stuff, Photoshop, Lightroom, MS Office, Chrome) works fine on the Mac.

My time is more valuable to me than cash. My sense of well-being is more important. I want to be a photographer and musician, not a troubleshooter. Mac wins.
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:51 AM   #62
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I switched from Windows to Mac a couple of years ago, and I will probably never go back.
I feel the same

once you switched to OSX, you do not want to go back to Windows
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:15 PM   #63
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OSX user here since the classic days. Every revision of OSX till Snow Leopard ran flawlessly for me. Lion is another story- this was Apples Vista, so I immediatelly upgraded to Mountin Lion and things seem better (specially the memory usage and graphic performance- specially with Logic, Reaper was running nicely also with Lion).

I for one thing have a quite mixed feelings about the future.
I use mostly mac laptops(MBPs) due to my field work(the build quality is superb in comparison woth other brands).

Today I returned the retina MBP because that dreaded Thunderbolt to firewire adapter doesnt provide enough power (it only squeezes out 7w) to drive my mobile rig soundcards (one MOTU ultralite and a presonus Firebox). I replaced it with a regular Ivy MBP so im safe for some time but I guess theyre going to eliminate the classic MBP line soon.

I have also a Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 which works ok (didnt made much testing though) since its has its own power supply.

I think they really blew it with this no upgrade option Retina line. Hopefully they will fix the power distribution in future revision but that doesnt seem to be their priority nowadays. Or maybe some 3rd party will create a more usable hub, but for now there arent many options. I have no intention switching to USB soundcards.

Regards J
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:28 PM   #64
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I feel the same

once you switched to OSX, you do not want to go back to Windows
I switched back I was an OSX 10.5.x user but when windows 7 x64 came out and I tried it, it ran all my DAW/VI software so much better I switched, not regretted it at all,still have a mac in the studio but doesn't get used much, sold my Macbook pro.

Regarding laptops: HP EliteBools are amazing laptops, full military spec, completely user serviceable,3 years on site warranty.

I have an i7 Sandy bridge quad 2860 with 16 gigs of ram,an SSD OS drive and a 750 gig 7200rpm audio /sample drive in the optical drive bay, a high res non reflective screen al in a 14 inch laptop which is the same size as the 13 inch macbook.

with some careful component sourcing this machine is comparable with the latest MacBook Pro for half the cost.



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Old 08-07-2012, 01:46 PM   #65
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Why is mac so popular in music/media industry? I mean, you can get the same specs on a pc for half the price. Im not hating on mac, i just wonder why.
Marketing. I've never had better luck with them than with a PC, worse actually. Tried to switch to them twice, always a waste of money. Lots of money.
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:26 PM   #66
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Like I said, this time less in jest, it's the Apple. Call it marketing if you like, I don't believed the Hitler could have centralize Nazi power so effectively without the inverted swastika. He certainly wasted a disproportionate amount of time perfecting its dimensions if I'm wrong...

It's unfortunate that the power of symbols is so easily dismissed. But then again, if one doesn't believe in this sort of common 'magic,' one is infinitely more susceptible to it. Extreme examples, sorry.
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Old 08-07-2012, 03:02 PM   #67
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Well that didn't take long.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
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Old 08-07-2012, 03:14 PM   #68
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As for the hardware... PC hardware costs half as much IF you're compromising your quality and getting cheap components. But get to things like the case, keyboard, screen, video card, and the differences are palpable. It's like the difference between a Hyundai and a Mercedes. Close the door and listen to the sound, you'll hear it.
In a comparison I did a couple of years ago, Macs were in between 2 to 5 times more expensive. That's pretty hefty. Especially since both a Hyundai and Mercedes will take you where you want to go just as efficiently. Oh no wait... The Hyundai has a lot more and better roads you can drive on where the Mercedes can't go.

The difference between Mac and PC quality wise isn't as big as you say anyway. I remember reading some years ago that Apple laptops came in 4th place quality wise behind Asus, Toshiba and Sony. And that was based on real computer failure/warranty figures.
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Old 08-07-2012, 03:52 PM   #69
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Well that didn't take long.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
Interesting! I've never noticed that, or openly drawn the comparison before, but in my defense, my conclusion is independently drawn and I stand behind it. Also, hate it when arguments are dismissed because they fall easily into a categorization. Godwin's Law is practically an example of itself. What's the word for that? It is wonderful, though daunting, how deftly the internet is abolishing all of our wishful, egotistical notions of "original thought." Anyways, apologies for my obvious laziness in driving home the point. But the efficacy of symbols to reach ends was known in the practice of 'magic' long before the advertising industry discovered (and trivialized) their power. I only brought up Hitler because it's a common and easily verifiable example... But then, he was extremely interested in occultism.
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:47 PM   #70
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I for one thing have a quite mixed feelings about the future.
Hear you there. The future I see for mac is an increasingly closed OS with a centralized distribution of software and incredibly greasy and fingerprint covered large multi-touch screens (just look at your keyboard right now and imagine that crude on a monitor size surface) ;P
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Old 08-08-2012, 02:51 AM   #71
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Hear you there. The future I see for mac is an increasingly closed OS with a centralized distribution of software and incredibly greasy and fingerprint covered large multi-touch screens (just look at your keyboard right now and imagine that crude on a monitor size surface) ;P
Are you saying that soon, we will HAVE to use multi-touch screens?

But if you're correct there's always this..

http://www.clickcleaning.co.uk/clean...-keyboard.aspx

I'm looking at my keyboard right now, and it's clean.
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Old 08-08-2012, 03:05 AM   #72
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incredibly greasy and fingerprint covered large multi-touch screens
I know! These bread crums all over my iPad are just nasty, NASTY I tell you!
p

Touch screens are so much easier to clean than even normal displays, you just need a dedicated micro-fiber cloth. Cleaniness is the last thing I would worry about touch screens.
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Old 08-08-2012, 04:59 AM   #73
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I'm wondering if the Leap motion technology will take over touchscreen technology for desktops before it really gets going. Not sure if people have seen this, but I got my pre-order in as soon as they were announced. Not expected to be out until Dec-Jan, but this looks amazing IMO. Apparently it's sensitive enough to pick up each of your 10 fingertips, and the obvious advantage is a 3D environment to move your hands in, rather than a 2D screen to scroll your fingers across. And it's only £40!:

http://leapmotion.com/
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Old 08-08-2012, 06:47 AM   #74
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Are you saying that soon, we will HAVE to use multi-touch screens
It would explain apple's recent integration of features from iOS into OS X. When I first saw demo vids of multi-touch years ago I pretty much figured that's where desktop computer interfacing was going. When apple came out with their multi-touch products it confirmed that was the general direction they were aiming for.

Don't get me wrong, the cleanliness comment above was just an attempt at levity. I think it will be cool when large multi-touch interfaces become widely available. If one had the coin to spare you could get it right now > http://www.wacom.com/en/Products/Cin...iq24touch.aspx

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I'm wondering if the Leap motion technology will take over touchscreen technology for desktops before it really gets going.
Holy minority report Morpion! That is cool! And the price is crazy cheap. Will be watching to see where that goes. Thanks for sharing!
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Old 08-08-2012, 03:26 PM   #75
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Interesting! I've never noticed that, or openly drawn the comparison before, but in my defense, my conclusion is independently drawn and I stand behind it.
Not dismissing your argument, just found it funny that it happened at page two of this thread. I should have used some kind of emoticon. :P Mac vs PC discussions usually become like heated religious arguments. Just how it is.
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Old 08-08-2012, 04:50 PM   #76
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I'm wondering if the Leap motion technology will take over touchscreen technology for desktops before it really gets going.

http://leapmotion.com/
You may have a point because of the cost and availability of some of the materials needed for touch screens.
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Old 08-08-2012, 04:59 PM   #77
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:P Mac vs PC discussions usually become like heated religious arguments. Just how it is.
So I've noticed. But then, I tend to get quickly off topic...
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Old 08-09-2012, 10:51 AM   #78
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There was a statement further up this topic tree that said Reaper works better on Windows than Mac. I think it works fine on either...I have both platforms and prefer using my little 13" MBP. I like Core Audio way better than ASIO (or any other Windows based audio drivers).
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:42 PM   #79
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I own a mac, and for two main reasons:

1. Dealing with anti-virus software is a pain in the ass for me. I know I still have to worry about viruses, but my computer's been performing optimally for the past year.

2. Qwerty keyboards for other languages. I searched for many hours for a qwerty nagari keyboard on windows and couldn't fucking find it, but macs have it already.
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Old 08-12-2012, 02:21 PM   #80
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I own a mac, and for two main reasons:

1. Dealing with anti-virus software is a pain in the ass for me. I know I still have to worry about viruses, but my computer's been performing optimally for the past year.

2. Qwerty keyboards for other languages. I searched for many hours for a qwerty nagari keyboard on windows and couldn't fucking find it, but macs have it already.
What's there to deal with? just install MSE or virus protection of your choice and you're done.

never had a virus in 15 years of using windows.
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