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Old 11-14-2019, 05:27 PM   #5321
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
So just to be sure, you are saying that this works if you start Reaper with the newer one, then switch to the older one.
That's correct.

Quote:
From the info you sent, it looks like you could also start the new one, close Reaper, and restart the new one and and that should work too -- could you check that please ?
That doesn't work. Similarly, starting the old one twice doesn't work either.

What seems to be broken in the new one (with no knowledge of the underlying code)is the actual driving of the signal present LEDs, which work once on each channel and then stop.

Alternatively, you could say that the new initialisation breaks the lower display metering in the old one, producing the result we're looking for
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Old 11-14-2019, 06:03 PM   #5322
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New build is up.

Give this one a shot
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Old 11-14-2019, 06:13 PM   #5323
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Default Installation problem

Seem to be having a problem getting this installed. Looks very exciting - I've been looking for a way to integrate X-touch and extender with Reaper and get as close to full functionality as I can.

I think I've done the install correctly, by copying the CSI folder to the Reaper resources dir, and the 64 bit .dll to the "Reaper\Plugins" folder, but the CSI option doesn't show up in the Control Surfaces dialog. I'm still running Reaper 64 bit ver. 4.78. Do I need to upgrade to 5.x maybe, or is there some magic I'm missing?

Thanks!
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Old 11-14-2019, 06:17 PM   #5324
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Seem to be having a problem getting this installed. Looks very exciting - I've been looking for a way to integrate X-touch and extender with Reaper and get as close to full functionality as I can.

I think I've done the install correctly, by copying the CSI folder to the Reaper resources dir, and the 64 bit .dll to the "Reaper\Plugins" folder, but the CSI option doesn't show up in the Control Surfaces dialog. I'm still running Reaper 64 bit ver. 4.78. Do I need to upgrade to 5.x maybe, or is there some magic I'm missing?

Thanks!
Yes, you need an up to date version of Reaper.
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Old 11-14-2019, 06:28 PM   #5325
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Default Thanks!

OK, great. Kind of been looking for a reason to do that too. Thanks for the quick reply!
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Old 11-14-2019, 06:55 PM   #5326
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
New build is up.

Give this one a shot
Success!

There's a bit of a hang between the project loading and the surfaces kicking in.

If I load a blank project (no tracks) after power cycling the surfaces (so that the startup text is showing) I can watch the displays blank one after another. Takes about 10-12 seconds. The longest pause seems to follow the C4 (which is 5 of 7 surfaces)
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Old 11-14-2019, 07:20 PM   #5327
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New build is up.

Removed the extremely conservative code (that is causing the slowdown). does everything still work ?

Off to bed -- will check in the morning
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Old 11-14-2019, 08:18 PM   #5328
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
New build is up.

Removed the extremely conservative code (that is causing the slowdown). does everything still work ?

Off to bed -- will check in the morning
All good Hang gone, everything still works
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Old 11-15-2019, 03:59 AM   #5329
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All good Hang gone, everything still works
Fantastic !!!
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Old 11-15-2019, 04:05 PM   #5330
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Default Configuration question

Upgraded Reaper and got CSI running. This project looks absolutely great!

I do have a question or two. I know I am coming late to the party, and I hope these questions haven't been covered multiple times elsewhere. I have searched the thread but it's just HUGE, so I may have missed this being covered somewhere else. If so, sorry for the redundancy.

My issue is that I can't seem to get the jog wheel on my X-Touch to do anything. I've found areas in the thread where people seem to be getting it to work, but I'm still trying to get up to speed on how the .mst and .zon files are constructed and integrated, and the jog wheel code snippets I've come across don't seem to do anything in my setup. Can someone steer me where I need to go?
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Old 11-15-2019, 04:13 PM   #5331
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Is this worse than before, or just still there.

Can you think of any condition that's present whenever this happens -- high track counts -- hours of use -- that sort of stuff ?
In about a 3 hours tracking session, it will go maybe within an hour or there abouts, some times comes back other times config.
In the tracking session I'm really only running the transport, everything else is usually static, maybe that's the killer, maybe i should be randomly tweaking faders.
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Old 11-15-2019, 08:38 PM   #5332
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Upgraded Reaper and got CSI running. This project looks absolutely great!

I do have a question or two. I know I am coming late to the party, and I hope these questions haven't been covered multiple times elsewhere. I have searched the thread but it's just HUGE, so I may have missed this being covered somewhere else. If so, sorry for the redundancy.

My issue is that I can't seem to get the jog wheel on my X-Touch to do anything. I've found areas in the thread where people seem to be getting it to work, but I'm still trying to get up to speed on how the .mst and .zon files are constructed and integrated, and the jog wheel code snippets I've come across don't seem to do anything in my setup. Can someone steer me where I need to go?
The jog wheel implementation isn't that great at the moment, but you can get it usable.

In the MCU.mst file, find the jog wheel entry:
Code:
Widget JogWheelRotary
	Encoder b0 3c 7f
	FB_Encoder b0 3c 7f
WidgetEnd
Replace all four lines with this:
Code:
Widget JogWheelRotaryCW
	Press b0 3c 01
WidgetEnd

Widget JogWheelRotaryCCW
	Press b0 3c 41
WidgetEnd
This has changed the "continuous encoder" form (that doesn't work with anything regarding cursor movement) to a "press" form that can be used with Reaper actions. As you turn the wheel, it's like you were pressing a button over and over.

Now, in the MCU.zon file, add these lines to Zone Buttons:
Code:
		JogWheelRotaryCW Reaper 40647
		JogWheelRotaryCCW Reaper 40646
This binds the Widget definitions in the .mst file to two Reaper actions, one for clockwise the other for anti-clockwise.

The two Reaper actions move the cursor backwards and forwards by an amount equal to the current grid setting. There may be other actions that fit your workflow better, so feel free to change them Just search through the action list and copy and paste the action command ID after the word "Reaper" (as above).

Good luck and welcome to CSI world
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Old 11-15-2019, 08:57 PM   #5333
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Thanks, MixMonkey, I'll give that a try and see how it goes. I appreciate the welcome to the CSI world as well.

Looks like you guys have been getting some serious work done around here, and having some fun doing it. Very cool and very useful project.

Thanks again!
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Old 11-15-2019, 11:06 PM   #5334
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How stable is CSI's file format right now ?

Every few days I see myself directing new users to this thread to find out how to support their Control Surface device, knowing they will feel lost in the beginning.

If the format is not due to incompatible change any more, it would be great to have a public library of working CSI configurations.

IMHO, ReaPack is the decent place to provide these files. Maybe you need to talk to CFillion to have ReaPack support this.

Thanks,
-Michael
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Old 11-16-2019, 04:39 AM   #5335
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Originally Posted by Freex View Post
In about a 3 hours tracking session, it will go maybe within an hour or there abouts, some times comes back other times config.
In the tracking session I'm really only running the transport, everything else is usually static, maybe that's the killer, maybe i should be randomly tweaking faders.
MY old MCU/XT/C4 combo used to do that at about that timeframe with about the same symptoms.

Anyone else have this behaviour ?
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Old 11-16-2019, 04:50 AM   #5336
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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
How stable is CSI's file format right now ?

Every few days I see myself directing new users to this thread to find out how to support their Control Surface device, knowing they will feel lost in the beginning.

If the format is not due to incompatible change any more, it would be great to have a public library of working CSI configurations.

Thanks,
-Michael
Well, the file format will be frozen (mostly) when we go beta.

However, the good news is, most changes (and anticipated changes) from now on will be in the form of add-ons, so previous files will work fine -- we are getting close.

Meanwhile, the Surface/Zone library is filling in nicely, thanks everyone !!

Speaking of beta, I believe this is what we need before stepping to beta:
Fix modifier bug
Add Folder implementation
Whole bunch of ones you folks will chime in with

What say you, good folk of CSI ?
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Old 11-16-2019, 08:19 AM   #5337
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Whole bunch of ones you folks will chime in with

What say you, good folk of CSI ?
There's only a few things that immediately spring to mind in addition to ones you've mentioned (things are pretty smooth here at the moment:

i) Scrubbing with the jog wheel. The MCU has a "scrub" button next to the wheel and it would be nice to be able to hold it down and hear audio whilst moving the wheel. Thanks to @Flight for reminding me about the whole jog wheel thing.

The last two concern plugin mapping and I'm not sure if fixes are even possible from within CSI.

ii) "The Curse of Three" Mapping plugin multi position switches is no problem for 1, 2, 4 or more positions. 3 position switches won't map properly to the C4 rotary encoder- nothing happens. If I map a three position switch to a press, I can sometimes get the first and last positions, but not always.

iii) "Over the cliff edge" Another problem that probably has more to do with the VST automation impolementation than CSI.

Some plugins go haywire if you continue turning a rotary encoder after the on screen control has reached the end of it's travel. The C4 display continues to update (into negative numbers if ccw) and Reaper either crashes, the plugin stops responding until the on screen control is reset with the mouse or it's value jumps to maximum (this can be a bit of a shock if the controlled parameter is the makeup gain of a compressor)

If there was a way of stopping the rotary output from reaching Reaper when the feedback reached one of two settable values (min/max), we wouldn't be at the mercy of poor VST auto implementation.

A lot of manufacturers pay little attention to this aspect of their plugins, not realising its use for control surface control.
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Old 11-16-2019, 11:41 AM   #5338
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
The jog wheel implementation isn't that great at the moment, but you can get it usable.
Indeed you can, MixMonkey. I did get this working on my machine with a Tascam US2400, but can't yet get it to work on my other setup using an X-Touch. Weird. But I'll keep at it, as I assume there is a configuration difference I am missing. Again, thanks for the assist.

I am assuming the "Reaper xxxxx" tags in the .zon files are Reaper action codes. Just wondering, where are we getting the codes from? Is there a list of them somewhere? As you said, MixMonkey, the JogWheel workaround is pretty rough-grained, depending on grid resolution, but there are other Reaper Actions, such as "Move cursor left 8 pixels" that might help smooth it out. I am assuming there is a Reaper code somewhere for this action. I'd like to try it out, if someone can steer me to the codes.

Actually, looking in MidiOx, when using the JogWheel it sends codes very much like pressing a button multiple times, one after another, but with up to seven different end digits depending on speed of wheel rotation.

Clockwise: B0 3c (01..07 - depending on speed of rotation)
Counter: B0 3c (41..47 - depending on speed of rotation)

As part of the mix on reaching a solution to this issue, it seems the solution using a "Press" is actually not really a kludge, as I would guess that is what Reaper itself does in its MCU emulation. But we may be needing further available cursor actions to allow up to seven different responses to cursor movement codes...
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Old 11-16-2019, 11:51 AM   #5339
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Just wondering, where are we getting the codes from?
Just right click on an action in the action list and pick "Copy selected action command ID"
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Old 11-16-2019, 01:58 PM   #5340
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There's only a few things that immediately spring to mind in addition to ones you've mentioned (things are pretty smooth here at the moment:

i) Scrubbing with the jog wheel. The MCU has a "scrub" button next to the wheel and it would be nice to be able to hold it down and hear audio whilst moving the wheel. Thanks to @Flight for reminding me about the whole jog wheel thing.
Yes, agree, I'd say let's let this one slide into beta, don't want to rush it -- so jog develops in parallel to the beta, and gets folded in when it's of sufficient quality.

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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
ii) "The Curse of Three" Mapping plugin multi position switches is no problem for 1, 2, 4 or more positions. 3 position switches won't map properly to the C4 rotary encoder- nothing happens. If I map a three position switch to a press, I can sometimes get the first and last positions, but not always.
Now with the ability to map RGB colours, we should be able to state n position controllers, each with a different colour, perhaps even allow a "hardwired" VST value that you know works -- helping work around inevitable quirks

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
iii) "Over the cliff edge" Another problem that probably has more to do with the VST automation impolementation than CSI.

Some plugins go haywire if you continue turning a rotary encoder after the on screen control has reached the end of it's travel. The C4 display continues to update (into negative numbers if ccw) and Reaper either crashes, the plugin stops responding until the on screen control is reset with the mouse or it's value jumps to maximum (this can be a bit of a shock if the controlled parameter is the makeup gain of a compressor)

If there was a way of stopping the rotary output from reaching Reaper when the feedback reached one of two settable values (min/max), we wouldn't be at the mercy of poor VST auto implementation.

A lot of manufacturers pay little attention to this aspect of their plugins, not realising its use for control surface control.
Yeah, that will be an ongoing battle in the beta -- clamp down whatever we can to prevent bad actors messin with us
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Old 11-16-2019, 02:01 PM   #5341
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New build is up.

Hopefully fixes modifier issues.

Also tuned Modifier Latch -- you have to be a lot quicker to latch it, so it's now:

Quick Tap to Latch
Gentle Press to Unlatch
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Old 11-16-2019, 03:18 PM   #5342
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Just right click on an action in the action list and pick "Copy selected action command ID"
Brilliant. Thanks.
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Old 11-16-2019, 03:30 PM   #5343
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Brilliant. Thanks.
I forgot to mention that you can display them in the action list by right clicking a column header and checking "display action IDs"
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Old 11-16-2019, 03:42 PM   #5344
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I forgot to mention that you can display them in the action list by right clicking a column header and checking "display action IDs"
Again, thanks. I just tried out the "Move cursor left 8 pixels" and "Move cursor right 8 pixels" Actions, and it works more smoothly, and without regard to the grid.

You may want to set your scrub settings not to scrub when moving the cursor from a control surface, or you get chipmunk music, but this much works better I think.

As I say, it would be nice to have a couple more speeds, but this seems pretty workable as is.
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Old 11-16-2019, 03:43 PM   #5345
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Yeah, that will be an ongoing battle in the beta -- clamp down whatever we can to prevent bad actors messin with us
Being able to set min/max values and a range of discrete values that an endless increment/decrement controller sends would probably solve most of the issues
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Old 11-16-2019, 04:01 PM   #5346
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Again, thanks. I just tried out the "Move cursor left 8 pixels" and "Move cursor right 8 pixels" Actions, and it works more smoothly, and without regard to the grid.

You may want to set your scrub settings not to scrub when moving the cursor from a control surface, or you get chipmunk music, but this much works better I think.

As I say, it would be nice to have a couple more speeds, but this seems pretty workable as is.
Glad you've found something that suits What would be nice would be if we could enable/disable the audio scrub by momentary button.

Regarding the jog speed, Geoff's just posted a build with the modifiers fixed, so you may be able to change speed and kill the audio by defining a Shift function for the wheel and binding it to a Reaper action to move the edit cursor, which shouldn't output audio as it moves. Worth a try
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Old 11-16-2019, 04:08 PM   #5347
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Geoff's just posted a build with the modifiers fixed
Did you test this ?
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Old 11-16-2019, 04:17 PM   #5348
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Did you test this ?
Nope, took your word for it
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Old 11-16-2019, 04:21 PM   #5349
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Regarding the modifiers and FX subzones- is it still one set of modifiers for all the subzones or is it one set for each zone?
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Old 11-16-2019, 04:37 PM   #5350
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Nope, took your word for it
Haha, well please somebody test this, I'd really like to get confirmation that modifiers work with Sends and FX exactly like they work for everything else.
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Old 11-16-2019, 04:40 PM   #5351
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Regarding the modifiers and FX subzones- is it still one set of modifiers for all the subzones or is it one set for each zone?
One set for each Zone, just like everywhere else, a Zone is a Zone, modifiers are modifiers, no crazy exceptions, special rules, etc.
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Old 11-16-2019, 04:42 PM   #5352
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One set for each Zone, just like everywhere else, a Zone is a Zone, modifiers are modifiers, no crazy exceptions, special rules, etc.
@Freex is going to be a very happy man
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Old 11-16-2019, 05:43 PM   #5353
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Haha, well please somebody test this, I'd really like to get confirmation that modifiers work with Sends and FX exactly like they work for everything else.
I can confirm that the modifiers now act on FX Zones independently and not as a whole.

That is to say, I created an FX map with two Zones and the Shift and Option modifiers call different sets of FX parameters in each one.

The modifiers themselves are still global in nature. I was using the Shift and Option keys on the MCU and they were "modifying" the C4, with no Zone linking turned on. Don't see this as an issue, you've only got one pair of hands
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Old 11-16-2019, 06:19 PM   #5354
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
I can confirm that the modifiers now act on FX Zones independently and not as a whole.

That is to say, I created an FX map with two Zones and the Shift and Option modifiers call different sets of FX parameters in each one.

The modifiers themselves are still global in nature. I was using the Shift and Option keys on the MCU and they were "modifying" the C4, with no Zone linking turned on. Don't see this as an issue, you've only got one pair of hands
Cool, thanks !

The modifiers are on a per Page basis by design, although I wouldn't think anyone would have different definitions for modifiers on different Pages
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Old 11-16-2019, 06:33 PM   #5355
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OK, let's take stock.

Outstanding major features to be added:
Folders
Jog/Shuttle

In order to both of these justice, we need some discussion time.

I propose we move to beta -- which is supposedly frozen features and frozen file formats -- neither of which ever turn out to be true

So, let's make a call to move on and try to make as little change as possible to the main code, other than bug fixes, whilst developing any new features in parallel, then blending them in when there are sufficiently mature...

For a successful beta we will need more testers.

That means we should probably take some time and clean up and .mst/.ost/.zon files we have and then let's add them to the build.

Let's also knock off any "low hanging fruit" we have in our possession

What does everyone think of this approach ?
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Old 11-16-2019, 06:45 PM   #5356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
OK, let's take stock.

Outstanding major features to be added:
Folders
Jog/Shuttle

In order to both of these justice, we need some discussion time.

I propose we move to beta -- which is supposedly frozen features and frozen file formats -- neither of which ever turn out to be true

So, let's make a call to move on and try to make as little change as possible to the main code, other than bug fixes, whilst developing any new features in parallel, then blending them in when there are sufficiently mature...

For a successful beta we will need more testers.

That means we should probably take some time and clean up and .mst/.ost/.zon files we have and then let's add them to the build.

Let's also knock off any "low hanging fruit" we have in our possession

What does everyone think of this approach ?
Sounds good to me I can provide the Mackie MCU/XT/C4 files.

One more annoying bug that i'd forgotten about and hoped had gone away. Mapped VST3 plugins randomly stop receiving control input, although they still get feedabck from Reaper if you turn the control on the screen. Something happens to the particular instance of the plugin, because if I create a new track and instanciate the plugin on it, it works. Nothing I've tried seems to get the control input working again on the original track.

Only affects VST3, never had it happen with VST2.
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Old 11-16-2019, 06:51 PM   #5357
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington
What does everyone think of this approach ?
Looks like a good course, Le Capitan.

Modifiers=OMG (creamed!!!)LOL
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Old 11-17-2019, 05:43 AM   #5358
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Sounds good to me I can provide the Mackie MCU/XT/C4 files.

One more annoying bug that i'd forgotten about and hoped had gone away. Mapped VST3 plugins randomly stop receiving control input, although they still get feedabck from Reaper if you turn the control on the screen. Something happens to the particular instance of the plugin, because if I create a new track and instanciate the plugin on it, it works. Nothing I've tried seems to get the control input working again on the original track.

Only affects VST3, never had it happen with VST2.
Cool.

Yeah, that's a classic bug candidate for beta fixing -- feature is working correctly generally, but certain 3rd party instances of something (in this case VST3) are causing problems...
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Old 11-17-2019, 05:50 AM   #5359
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Game changer alert !!

Anyone want to buy an Avid Artist Control -- I'll let it go real cheap

Quick and dirty proof of concept (terrible colour saturation -- looks way better in person ), waiting for a laser printer.

When things have settled a bit, a printable PDF will be included in the build.

And yes, those on and off colours are defined in the .zon files, completely tunable to your tastes -- which reminds me, gotta add a colour picker to the Learn mode window
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Last edited by Geoff Waddington; 11-21-2019 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 11-17-2019, 06:54 AM   #5360
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Game changer alert !!

Anyone want to buy an Avid Artist Control -- I'll let it go real cheap

Quick and dirty proof of concept (terrible colour saturation -- looks way better in person ), waiting for a laser printer.

When things have settled a bit, a printable PDF will be included in the build.

And yes, those on and off colours are defined in the .zon files, completely tunable to your tastes -- which reminds me, gotta add a colour picker to the Learn mode window
Cool Are the icons under the keys or on top?
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