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Old 08-13-2019, 07:22 AM   #1
EManBass
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Default Hidden tracks and daw controller issues - faders and selection

Hi,

I'm running into an issue that is many times preventing me from taking full advantage of my Panorama P6 keyboard and controller, specifically the faders and the track selection buttons. Reaper has a function where you can "hide" a specific track or tracks from the editing window, the mixer window, or both. I use that function while mixing because it allows me to duplicate a track I thought I was happy with, apply different processing and see what fits best the song; or, for example, if I got some drums tracks and didn't like the snare, I can duplicate the snare, apply drum replacement to one of the tracks plus more processing and see what that sounds like. I then "hide" the track I won't be using because I don't want to see it, but I don't want to get rid of it either in case I and/or the client later decide it's best to go back to the original track or try the replacements again.

Here is where the faders become almost useless: the Panorama P6 fader selection will still see and work with the hidden tracks. So, in one of my latest projects, I replaced the snare of a song with a sampled snare, so I ended up with several tracks I did not want to see any longer but didn't want to erase either: an original snare track, under snare, an extra track I created for parallel processing, and the buss where these 3 snare items were sent to. Now, if I want to go to a specific fader bank of 8 tracks using the Panorama Go To Bank tool, I have to take into account those 4 tracks. Same goes for any other tracks I may have hidden, and the track selection buttons aren't any strangers to the issues.

Is anybody having any similar issue with their fader controllers? Is there any way you know of to avoid this behavior? I would love to keep using the faders, but honestly this way it almost renders the Panorama useless as a mixing tool =(
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:28 AM   #2
Geoff Waddington
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Originally Posted by EManBass View Post
Hi,

I'm running into an issue that is many times preventing me from taking full advantage of my Panorama P6 keyboard and controller, specifically the faders and the track selection buttons. Reaper has a function where you can "hide" a specific track or tracks from the editing window, the mixer window, or both. I use that function while mixing because it allows me to duplicate a track I thought I was happy with, apply different processing and see what fits best the song; or, for example, if I got some drums tracks and didn't like the snare, I can duplicate the snare, apply drum replacement to one of the tracks plus more processing and see what that sounds like. I then "hide" the track I won't be using because I don't want to see it, but I don't want to get rid of it either in case I and/or the client later decide it's best to go back to the original track or try the replacements again.

Here is where the faders become almost useless: the Panorama P6 fader selection will still see and work with the hidden tracks. So, in one of my latest projects, I replaced the snare of a song with a sampled snare, so I ended up with several tracks I did not want to see any longer but didn't want to erase either: an original snare track, under snare, an extra track I created for parallel processing, and the buss where these 3 snare items were sent to. Now, if I want to go to a specific fader bank of 8 tracks using the Panorama Go To Bank tool, I have to take into account those 4 tracks. Same goes for any other tracks I may have hidden, and the track selection buttons aren't any strangers to the issues.

Is anybody having any similar issue with their fader controllers? Is there any way you know of to avoid this behavior? I would love to keep using the faders, but honestly this way it almost renders the Panorama useless as a mixing tool =(
CSI -- the project in this sub forum, will recognize that Tracks are hidden.

It requires that you have a profile for the control surface section of the keyboard.

If you can find the midi spec - the part that tells what midi messages the control surface section sends/receives, and what button sends what - I can whip up something for you to try.
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CSI - You can donate here: geoffwaddington.ca
Alpha software: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/36903/CSI%20alpha.zip
Reaper forum thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=183143
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:53 AM   #3
EManBass
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
CSI -- the project in this sub forum, will recognize that Tracks are hidden.

It requires that you have a profile for the control surface section of the keyboard.

If you can find the midi spec - the part that tells what midi messages the control surface section sends/receives, and what button sends what - I can whip up something for you to try.
Thank you. It's gonna take me some time because this is the first time I ever hear about CSI in a context different than a TV show, and just skimming through the forum still doesn't quite give me an idea of what we're talking about. Reading the GitHub page at the moment and taking notes. Also, I am currently out of town spending some time in the forums looking for answers to questions I don't have time to ask when I'm home on my desktop machine because I'm usually working on a project and there's just no time to spare between clients. Thanks a ton, again, this sounds very promising for my particular issue!
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Old 10-18-2019, 07:43 PM   #4
EManBass
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Hi Geoff Waddington,

I abandoned the idea for a bit while I took care of other business, but trying to get back into this. I did not understand what you were asking from me. I reached out to Nektar and they decline to provide that information, but say that this issue is inherent to Reaper and not part of their infrastructure. I do not know how to access that, though I see I have access to menus within the keyboard, and it does have a screen that gives me some visual feedback.

I am on Windows 10, and I finally got to where this starts to work: took me a while to realized I have to "add" it to the control surface list, and while setting up the pages and surfaces, the settings page is cut off and I can only see the top edge of the buttons such as Add, Edit, Remove, etc. I fooled a bit with it, just minutes to be honest, and I got to a point where selecting tracks seemed to play a piano note while there were no virtual instruments anywhere in the project. I am sorry, I am very lost. Is there a beginners' resource? I've scrolled through many pages in the forum page but everyone seems like they know what's going on from the get-go, I have no clue what I'm doing. I just know my problem persists: hidden tracks are not ignored by my track selections on my Panorama, and I just realized, fader moves are ignored in those hidden tracks. If I hide, say, track 3, and then move fader 3, then when un-hidding it, it will appear at 0db while the physical fader is elsewhere. So there is something wonky going on.

I appreciate all your effort on this. I saw your video switching through tracks demoing your controllers, and that's what I want for my life!
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Old 10-19-2019, 09:39 AM   #5
Geoff Waddington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EManBass View Post
Hi Geoff Waddington,

I abandoned the idea for a bit while I took care of other business, but trying to get back into this. I did not understand what you were asking from me. I reached out to Nektar and they decline to provide that information, but say that this issue is inherent to Reaper and not part of their infrastructure. I do not know how to access that, though I see I have access to menus within the keyboard, and it does have a screen that gives me some visual feedback.

I am on Windows 10, and I finally got to where this starts to work: took me a while to realized I have to "add" it to the control surface list, and while setting up the pages and surfaces, the settings page is cut off and I can only see the top edge of the buttons such as Add, Edit, Remove, etc. I fooled a bit with it, just minutes to be honest, and I got to a point where selecting tracks seemed to play a piano note while there were no virtual instruments anywhere in the project. I am sorry, I am very lost. Is there a beginners' resource? I've scrolled through many pages in the forum page but everyone seems like they know what's going on from the get-go, I have no clue what I'm doing. I just know my problem persists: hidden tracks are not ignored by my track selections on my Panorama, and I just realized, fader moves are ignored in those hidden tracks. If I hide, say, track 3, and then move fader 3, then when un-hidding it, it will appear at 0db while the physical fader is elsewhere. So there is something wonky going on.

I appreciate all your effort on this. I saw your video switching through tracks demoing your controllers, and that's what I want for my life!
First off, are you using the latest version, if not please download that, I thought the button visibility issue was solved. What resolution ere you running ?

As for the piano note, that's a sign you haven't got your midi set up right -- go into the config panel -- edit your surface -- use the midi dropdown to set up your input and output.

Let us know what happens.
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CSI - You can donate here: geoffwaddington.ca
Alpha software: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/36903/CSI%20alpha.zip
Reaper forum thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=183143
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Old 11-04-2019, 05:19 AM   #6
EManBass
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Sorry, my travels and gigs aren't allowing me to keep track of everything else I am doing, so it is extra appreciated that you keep enlightening me with this.

I was using the Alpha version available. I reinstalled it from scratch and I'm having the same issue of the buttons getting cut off. I double-checked that I'm not scaling my screens in any way for this. This is an Intel Nuc Hades Canyon, 23gb of RAM, Intel Core i7-8809G 3.10GHz, everything 64 bit, running Windows 10 Pro 1809 FWIW.

The installation process I followed was, I believe as stated by your document: I put the entire CSI Alpha folder in the Reaper Resources Path folder just like that, as is, and not inside any subfolder. Then the reaper_csurf_integrator64.dll went into the Reaper plugins folder inside the Program Files (64), Reaper folder.
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Old 11-04-2019, 05:37 AM   #7
Geoff Waddington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EManBass View Post
Sorry, my travels and gigs aren't allowing me to keep track of everything else I am doing, so it is extra appreciated that you keep enlightening me with this.

I was using the Alpha version available. I reinstalled it from scratch and I'm having the same issue of the buttons getting cut off. I double-checked that I'm not scaling my screens in any way for this. This is an Intel Nuc Hades Canyon, 23gb of RAM, Intel Core i7-8809G 3.10GHz, everything 64 bit, running Windows 10 Pro 1809 FWIW.

The installation process I followed was, I believe as stated by your document: I put the entire CSI Alpha folder in the Reaper Resources Path folder just like that, as is, and not inside any subfolder. Then the reaper_csurf_integrator64.dll went into the Reaper plugins folder inside the Program Files (64), Reaper folder.
What date is the reaper_csurf_integrator64.dll ?

What screen resolution are you running ?
__________________
CSI - You can donate here: geoffwaddington.ca
Alpha software: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/36903/CSI%20alpha.zip
Reaper forum thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=183143
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