Old 10-25-2019, 02:41 PM   #1
spynappels
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 2
Default Feedback to MIDI controller

Hi all,

I have what is probably a stupid question.

I've been messing about with an X-Touch Mini MIDI controller in pure MIDI mode.

Ive connected it to Reaper, and I was trying to set it up to suit me, by setting 2 of the buttons to cycle through tracks. What I was trying to do was have the ring of LEDs around the encoders reflect the volume and pan status of each track as I cycled through them, by making up new Custom Actions, with Go to next/previous track as the first action, followed by Send Pan as 2-byte MIDI message and send Volume as 2-byte MIDI message.

I was hoping that this would send the volume and pan status of the track focus moved to to the volume and pan CC encoders and be reflected in the LEDs, but it does not seem to work. Have I completely missed what these actions do?

I did set the MIDI channel of the X-Touch Mini as the MIDI output for each track, just in case this made a difference, but it didn't.

Thanks for any insights you may be able to give me.

Stefan
spynappels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2019, 10:13 PM   #2
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 8,135
Default

Welcome in the Reaper forums !

You are right at this subforum for discussing that problem.

Reaper itself (by default) does not send out any Midi messages when you do any actions on the user interface. You need to do some programming or use a "Control Surface" plugin (as described in several threads in the subforum).
-Michael
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2019, 12:32 AM   #3
spynappels
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 2
Default

Thanks for the response. I understand about having to do some programming to get this to work, which is why I was going down the custom actions route, it just doesn't seem to do what I expected.

Can anyone explain to me what the "send volume as 2-byte MIDI message" and "send pan as 2-byte MIDI message" actions actually do then?

I have also tried CSI, and have a somewhat working setup, but as I don't understand it's logic fully, I'm struggling to get it to do what I want.
spynappels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2019, 07:28 AM   #4
nofish
Human being with feelings
 
nofish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home is where the heart is
Posts: 9,171
Default

ReaLearn would be another alternative.
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=178015
nofish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2019, 09:12 AM   #5
Regisfofo
Human being with feelings
 
Regisfofo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: France
Posts: 244
Default

You can read that as a good quickstart :

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=225967
Regisfofo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2019, 09:44 AM   #6
kenm
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: San Jose, CA, USA
Posts: 95
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spynappels View Post
Thanks for the response. I understand about having to do some programming to get this to work, which is why I was going down the custom actions route, it just doesn't seem to do what I expected.

Can anyone explain to me what the "send volume as 2-byte MIDI message" and "send pan as 2-byte MIDI message" actions actually do then?

I have also tried CSI, and have a somewhat working setup, but as I don't understand it's logic fully, I'm struggling to get it to do what I want.
Hi spynappels,

In order to send feedback to a MIDI controller via actions you need a script that finds the controller as an output device, gets its device id, and then uses the StuffMIDIMessage function to send the message to the device ID. I'm not sure what the actions you are asking about do but that's not what you want to use to control the encoder ring LEDs.

I happen to have an X-Touch mini sitting on my desk so I should be able to help you with the coding. Can you provide the specifics of what two buttons you want to use to cycle through the tracks and what encoders you want to use for volume and pan?

You can take a look at same of the code I've done for the Presonus ATOM pad controller here: https://github.com/kmitch95120/Reaper-ATOM-Integration

Ken
kenm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2019, 09:52 AM   #7
kenm
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: San Jose, CA, USA
Posts: 95
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regisfofo View Post
You can read that as a good quickstart :

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=225967
Thank you. I will certainly look at that project for reference. I just helped someone get the XT Mini working with NI's Traktor DJ software and it sparked my interest in getting it working better with Reaper. I currently use it to control FX parameters without any LED feedback.

Ken
kenm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2019, 09:06 PM   #8
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 8,135
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenm View Post
I happen to have an X-Touch mini sitting on my desk so I should be able to help you with the coding.
Why do dedicated coding for a device/workflow, while by CSI this can be done by dedicated configuring ?

-Michael
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2019, 01:18 PM   #9
Regisfofo
Human being with feelings
 
Regisfofo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: France
Posts: 244
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Why do dedicated coding for a device/workflow, while by CSI this can be done by dedicated configuring ?

-Michael
This is no coding but agregating 2 nice scripts, realearn and Lbx Smartknob. Seems it can do great job for lot of controller. Csi is sure a great idea and neater way, but I did try to make it work with XTmini, and I failed...
By the way, Leon is about to realease a second version of his smartknob wich could be another nice solution.
Regisfofo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2019, 04:07 PM   #10
kenm
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: San Jose, CA, USA
Posts: 95
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Why do dedicated coding for a device/workflow, while by CSI this can be done by dedicated configuring ?

-Michael
Hi Michael,

For the last two days we've been without cell service and internet connection so I spent quite a bit of time working with CSI. For the XTouchMini the MST file that comes with CSI doesn't provide any LED feedback since it isn't configured to use the correct MIDI messages. I was able to get the buttons to work correctly, but not the encoder LEDs. Do you have any examples of CSI controlling the XTMini encode ring LEDs?

As far as what the OP wants to do, I'm not sure how to go about setting two encoders to control the same channel. Still getting my head around the ZON file.

Ken
kenm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2019, 04:10 PM   #11
kenm
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: San Jose, CA, USA
Posts: 95
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regisfofo View Post
This is no coding but agregating 2 nice scripts, realearn and Lbx Smartknob. Seems it can do great job for lot of controller. Csi is sure a great idea and neater way, but I did try to make it work with XTmini, and I failed...
By the way, Leon is about to realease a second version of his smartknob wich could be another nice solution.
Unfortunately during our recent communications blackout, I wasn't able to download any scripts. I'll take a look at these and see what I can accomplish.

Ken
kenm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2019, 04:49 PM   #12
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 8,135
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenm View Post
Do you have any examples of CSI controlling the XTMini encode ring LEDs?
Neither do I have a "Mini", nor do I currently actively work with CSI. I only did some tests with my "Compact" a year or so ago.

You will need to skim (and/or ask in the) the "CSI" thread. They will be happy to help.

-Michael
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2019, 05:27 PM   #13
kenm
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: San Jose, CA, USA
Posts: 95
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Neither do I have a "Mini", nor do I currently actively work with CSI. I only did some tests with my "Compact" a year or so ago.

You will need to skim (and/or ask in the) the "CSI" thread. They will be happy to help.

-Michael
Skimming now.

As it turns out there is one major design flaw with the Mini and that is the fact that there's only one set of MIDI messages to control the LEDs for both A and B layers. In other words you can't get button/encoder feedback for Layer B if you are already getting feedback for Layer A. Also, there's no MIDI message sent when you switch from A to B.

In my opinion, this makes the usefulness of the XTMini limited.

Ken
kenm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2019, 12:36 AM   #14
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 8,135
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenm View Post
only one set of MIDI messages to control the LEDs for both A and B layers. In other words you can't get button/encoder feedback for Layer B if you are already getting feedback for Layer A.
Similar with the "Compact"
- When in Layer A all feedbacks go to Layer A (if the parameter is programmed there), none to A
- When In Layer B all feedbacks go to Layer B (if the parameter is programmed there), none to B
- Pressing the layer Buttons does not send anything
- No way to switch the layer by Midi.

Really annoying !!!

Seemingly they don't have a firmware update.

-Michael
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2019, 11:39 AM   #15
azslow3
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenm View Post
Skimming now.

As it turns out there is one major design flaw with the Mini and that is the fact that there's only one set of MIDI messages to control the LEDs for both A and B layers. In other words you can't get button/encoder feedback for Layer B if you are already getting feedback for Layer A. Also, there's no MIDI message sent when you switch from A to B.

In my opinion, this makes the usefulness of the XTMini limited.

Ken
When using with "smart" solutions like CSI, it is better put XTMini into MC mode. Layers A/B are just 2 additional buttons then, they will not switch layers in hardware (but that can be done in software). For encoders, use feedback people use for MCU (and alike) encoders (that is not just current value, it has special encoding in MC).

That is not an option for Compact since it loose some encoders in MC mode.
azslow3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2019, 12:42 PM   #16
kenm
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: San Jose, CA, USA
Posts: 95
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by azslow3 View Post
When using with "smart" solutions like CSI, it is better put XTMini into MC mode. Layers A/B are just 2 additional buttons then, they will not switch layers in hardware (but that can be done in software). For encoders, use feedback people use for MCU (and alike) encoders (that is not just current value, it has special encoding in MC).

That is not an option for Compact since it loose some encoders in MC mode.
Thanks @azslow3. I'll give that a try.

Ken
kenm is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.