Old 10-05-2019, 12:36 AM   #1
tdc
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Default Advice for new user migrating from Avid S3

Hi Folks,

I have almost decided to move my facility away from Avid Pro Tools to Reaper and am now focusing on what control surfaces I should consider. For the past decade I have been on Euphonix/Avid surfaces, most recently the S3 and a Transport, but the limitations of the Avid ecosystem has made me look at Reaper.

The past few weeks I have researched and trialled a number of Reaper extensions to get my S3 to be a workable option, but it appears that a proper MCU/HUI device would be better suited that using the S3.

For the production work I do, 16 faders is a must, and a couple of banks of rotary encoders would allow me to use use Reaper to map common plugins. I have played with using a DJ Twister with the ReaLearn / LBX SmartKnobs and this is great.

Having the ability to create some custom actions to change a channel select button on a surface into a Select and Set Automation Mode would be the icing on the cake.

Any thoughts on what options I might have? Thanks in advance. tdc

Last edited by tdc; 10-05-2019 at 01:25 AM.
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Old 10-05-2019, 04:49 AM   #2
Geoff Waddington
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Originally Posted by tdc View Post
Hi Folks,

I have almost decided to move my facility away from Avid Pro Tools to Reaper and am now focusing on what control surfaces I should consider. For the past decade I have been on Euphonix/Avid surfaces, most recently the S3 and a Transport, but the limitations of the Avid ecosystem has made me look at Reaper.

The past few weeks I have researched and trialled a number of Reaper extensions to get my S3 to be a workable option, but it appears that a proper MCU/HUI device would be better suited that using the S3.

For the production work I do, 16 faders is a must, and a couple of banks of rotary encoders would allow me to use use Reaper to map common plugins. I have played with using a DJ Twister with the ReaLearn / LBX SmartKnobs and this is great.

Having the ability to create some custom actions to change a channel select button on a surface into a Select and Set Automation Mode would be the icing on the cake.

Any thoughts on what options I might have? Thanks in advance. tdc
Do you use the S3 with Reaper now, while you are deciding what to do ?

2 options for that:

1) https://stash.reaper.fm/v/18477/EuCon%20Beta.zip -- if you are on Windows there ais also a FX map editor.

2) The current project -- CSI -- see link in my signature below -- features realtime map editing (like ReaLearn) on all platforms.

I use 2 Avid Artist Mixes and an Avid Artist Control in Mackie Control Protocol mode with CSI, not sure how Mackie Control Protocol is implemented on the S3.

As far as replacing the S3, because CSI allows you to mix and match MIDI and OSC, a lot of possibilities open up, you can do things like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byqW...ature=youtu.be

The whole idea is to take the integration to the next level.

Kind of like a modern version of the old large format console days -- you ordered a suitably sized frame, and then modules -- today the modules are -- fader packs -- general control surfaces (e.g. MCU) -- OSC apps on devices -- etc.

Reaper is so open, this is all achievable, welcome to the Reaper world
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:37 PM   #3
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Hi Geoff,

Thanks for your response and suggestions. Your work on the CSI and EuCon is a large part of my considering moving from AVID to Cockos. I have some experience with MaxMSP and M4L and already have a number of OSC Apps for controlling DAW's for immersive and live projects. The potential of applying this to Reaper as my main DAW would make good sense from a workflow perspective and be simply amazing.

I have tried both CSI and the EuCon beta with the S3, but its quite rudimentary and only maps to small subset of the S3's controls. If I did end up migrating to Reaper, it would be far better to embrace controllers that support your work better. Also, EuCon is such a trial, ever since Euphonix released it for the MC and then S5, its been frustrating.

What would you recommend I read to get an understanding of the process of writing the scripts to create a setup like in your Cheesey video? For my purposes, a bank of 16 faders and some banks of rotary encoders that display the selected channels' FX parameters would be just what I am after.

Best, tdc
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Old 10-06-2019, 04:17 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by tdc View Post
What would you recommend I read to get an understanding of the process of writing the scripts to create a setup like in your Cheesey video? For my purposes, a bank of 16 faders and some banks of rotary encoders that display the selected channels' FX parameters would be just what I am after.

Best, tdc
First thing to say about this -- it's very easy -- it may look tough to start, but a ton of thought went into the file format (thanks forum members).

There are 2 types of files

Template files .mst/.ost

.mst example
Code:
Widget Play
	Press 90 5e 7f
	FB_TwoState 90 5e 7f 90 5e 00
WidgetEnd
.ost example
Code:
Widget Play
	Control /t/Play
	FB_Processor/t/Play
WidgetEnd

and .zon files

Code:
Zone Buttons
	BankLeft TrackBank -8
	BankRight TrackBank 8
	Rewind Rewind
	FastForward FastForward
	Stop Stop
	Play Play
	Record Record
        ...
ZoneEnd
The .mst/.ost files give CSI names to Midi/OSC Widgets (controls, displays, etc.)

Then it is just a matter of telling Reaper what to do upon receiving a message from a particular Widget -- e.g. Play Play bolded above.

So, when either the Midi surface or the OSC surface sends a Play message, Reaper goes into Play mode.

You are coming along at a good time, we are just finishing up Learn Mode (think Midi Learn) which will help ease Mapping chores, you might want to cruise the thread occasionally now, it's getting close to usable

Also definitely worthwhile checking out @MalcolmG's wiki -- link on first page of the thread -- and @poetnprophet's video -- thanks for reminding me -- I need to put the link on the first page
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Old 10-06-2019, 06:49 PM   #5
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Thanks Geoff, Malcolms Git documentation was exactly what I needed. Read it all last night and now I have successfully created various "Hello World" style configs with various controllers, and am receiving feedback when expected. iPhones with Lemur / TouchOSC, laptops with MaxMSP, and various hardware fader controllers, all concurrent.

Next step is to start building some configs that will change the binding based on Reaper track / FX selection. I can currently control the MasterFaderVolume, but not a selected track volume. From the various example configs i can see that there is a "OnTrackSelection MapSelectedTrackSendsToWidgets" message. Further reading needed i think.

Thanks for your work on this Geoff, amazing.
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Old 10-06-2019, 07:59 PM   #6
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Hi Geoff,

Thought I would post in here that I think I am now at the point where it would be more appropriate to join the main CSI thread for questions etc.

Thanks so much for your time and your work.

tdc
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Old 10-11-2019, 03:38 PM   #7
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Amongst the best encoder units is likely the C4 if you can find one.


Then there's the Midi Fighter Twister, which I use two of. No fx name display though, that's the only downside. It has plenty of excellent colour options though. If those can be made to play nice with CSI, you have a good bank of knobs.


I use mine mainly for the post-comp eq, pre-comp-eq and send(both relative and absolute). They great for customization.


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Old 10-11-2019, 04:28 PM   #8
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Hi Airon, thanks for the C4 tip. I had seen your work with the Twisters and was inspired to investigate as I too use one of them, usually coupled with an iPad with Lemur.

After a week of trialling Reaper as my main DAW for post production, I unfortunately am unable to make the change yet. For capture though, Reaper remains my primary tool as its never let me down when recording hundreds of tracks on a daily basis. I shall be following the CSI and Reaper development, and will try a few smaller non-critical projects entirely in Reaper to see how it goes.

I should note that from my testing, it was Reaper and not CSI that has made me make this decision.

Thanks all for your help, and I hope in the not too distant future to be able to make the leap.
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Old 10-12-2019, 06:09 PM   #9
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Is all the detail on Reapers shortcomings in your posts on the CSI thread, somewhere else or would you like to share your concerns here ?

I ask because the devs are quite responsive to actual, immediate production troubles. It pays off to bring those up.


Littleside tip on the MFT units.
You can use up to four at once with the custom firmware pack, which gives each unit its own unique name.
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Last edited by airon; 10-13-2019 at 04:25 AM.
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Old 10-13-2019, 10:09 PM   #10
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Hi Airon,

I did document my stumbling blocks in the CSI thread and in the bugs thread. the two main issues were the inconsistent data points of recorded automation, and an issue on the Mac of channels outputting audio after pressing stop when using plugins.

Reaper has been a part of my recording workflow for years, and I find it without peer for stability in this area. My work over the past few years has begun to include programming C and Max Gen audio objects and so using protools is not the best platform to integrate this with. Using Ableton with M4L and Reaper is far more empowering.

Thanks for your thoughts.
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Old 10-14-2019, 11:07 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by tdc View Post
Having the ability to create some custom actions to change a channel select button on a surface into a Select and Set Automation Mode would be the icing on the cake.

Any thoughts on what options I might have? Thanks in advance. tdc
If you are a linux or macos user: Here a crazy advice, get additionally to what you will buy a Corsair rgb qwerty keyboard, as there are drivers*** to change those lights per command line and there are command line programs for sending* and receiving** any midi event. And Reaper can use python script actions to trigger any command line (or non-command line) program. In short by triggering some Reaper actions you can send any midi events with any rgb color on your qwerty surface as feedback. Check the supported devices list****.

* https://github.com/gbevin/SendMIDI
** https://github.com/gbevin/ReceiveMIDI
*** https://github.com/ckb-next/ckb-next
**** https://github.com/ckb-next/ckb-next...orted-Hardware

tdc, there is also following unused, very new technique, midi mapping for masters:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=226038
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Old 10-14-2019, 11:22 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdc View Post
Using Ableton with M4L and Reaper is far more empowering.

Thanks for your thoughts.
Ableton is a joke compared to Reaper, I will also tell why: One midi channel per track are only allowed. But if you only want to use your samples created in Reaper, there, why not.
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Old 10-15-2019, 07:03 AM   #13
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Btw, I posted this in the bug report forum concerning automation, because the same is happening with what very well could be all midi control surface data.


https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=226074
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