v6.73+dev0117 - January 17 2023

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

In the previous build(s), you could use the mouse modifier to create a new comp area. BUT only if that area was a non-chosen area. So if you were working thru your song and picked lane 1 as your choice, you couldn't drag on lane 1 to create the next area. It would only extend the previous one. Which you could already do just by grabbing and trimming the end of that area. So you'd have to draw it on lane 2, then switch it back to lane 1 to start hearing that lane. I think that's inconsistent. Using that mouse modifier should always perform the function of creating a new area. IMHO.

I find both behaviors useful but didn't try them enough to decide hah, Maybe an option to have both? Also if we had another modifier to create a split marker under mouse could be useful for this.

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

At this point it might seem pointless but later on people are going to want to comp while only viewing one lane. So having the ability to create the area in the final comp lane would make that possible. You can create areas and use a keyboard shortcut to switch what lane you're hearing without having to see multiple lanes.

Makes perfect sense, but now I'm wondering if it would be better to create comp areas in comping lane if it's the only visible lane and not always?

If we don't try we'll never know

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

I find both behaviors useful but didn't try them enough to decide hah, Maybe an option to have both?

Not sure why you'd need both. Use this mm to create a new comp area. Grab the trim on the right or left side of the other areas to extend them. No?

Also if we had another modifier to create a split marker under mouse could be useful for this.

I'm not sure if these are split markers though. Not sure if you could create one but NOT create and area with a start and end.

Originally Posted by Vagelis

Makes perfect sense, but now I'm wondering if it would be better to create comp areas in comping lane if it's the only visible lane and not always?

You can use it always if you prefer.

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

You can create areas and use a keyboard shortcut to switch what lane you're hearing without having to see multiple lanes.

Or bring back those up/down arrows from earlier pres with razor comping, where they will be visible only in the comping lane in order to switch takes from there too instead from just the keyboard.

[bolgwrad]

Originally Posted by Klangfarben

+1111

This is very confusing as is. What IMHO ought to happen is that the comp area only erases comp lane items in the same source lane.

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

Not sure why you'd need both. Use this mm to create a new comp area. Grab the trim on the right or left side of the other areas to extend them. No?

Yes

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

I'm not sure if these are split markers though. Not sure if you could create one but NOT create and area with a start and end.

You could do it like instead of creating a new area inside an existing one, to just split it in half for example. The left and right markers will be preserved, you just split to divide the area in 2 and then you can switch lanes from the splits. The more the splits the more areas will be created.

It's just another way of working I guess.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

Or bring back those up/down arrows from earlier pres with razor comping, where they will be visible only in the comping lane in order to switch takes from there too instead from just the keyboard.

Some type of visual would be helpful (for the kids)

[AZpercussion]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

The left and right markers will be preserved, you just split to divide the area in 2 and then you can switch lanes from the splits.

Yeah, would be nice!

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

Some type of visual would be helpful (for the kids)

[AZpercussion]

+ Media item lanes: allow creating a comp area in the comping lane

Good stuff, thanks!


# Media item lanes: when editing with mouse modifier to allow empty space between comp areas, or editing unsynced areas, restrict the edit to the edges of adjoining comp areas

Can it be not restricted to the edges of adjoining comp areas?
That way we could have crossfades, that so useful with takes system.

[FeedTheCat]

This looks weird (only during right drag):

[Coachz]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

At this point it might seem pointless but later on people are going to want to comp while only viewing one lane. So having the ability to create the area in the final comp lane would make that possible. You can create areas and use a keyboard shortcut to switch what lane you're hearing without having to see multiple lanes.

That makes total sense Kenny. But when you said come at me hard I was like all right let's get this guy. But I realized it was probably a trap and you had solid answers to back up your reasoning behind those outrageous spectacles so I decided to find the mature part of my brain and ask a reasonable question. Hahaha. Thanks again for the explanation.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

You could do it like instead of creating a new area inside an existing one, to just split it in half for example. The left and right markers will be preserved, you just split to divide the area in 2 and then you can switch lanes from the splits. The more the splits the more areas will be created.

It's just another way of working I guess.

I understand the concept but I don't know the code. So I don't know if we can treat these as markers instead of areas.

Originally Posted by Coachz

That makes total sense Kenny. But when you said come at me hard I was like all right let's get this guy. But I realized it was probably a trap and you had solid answers to back up your reasoning behind those outrageous spectacles so I decided to find the mature part of my brain and ask a reasonable question. Hahaha. Thanks again for the explanation.

No. Honestly, I fell behind the discussion so when I asked schwa to change it, he mentioned that this was already discussed. So I wanted to take the abuse instead of him for reversing the decision.

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by Odys

Always have extra empty tracks at the end of a project.

My starting project template has 40 empty tracks so I can scroll easily and have tracks that I'm working on near top or center.

Yes I also have done this "fix".

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by schwa

I'm not able to reproduce that. Could you post a small project that's set up however it needs to be to reproduce?

You just need a screen full of tracks, and the desire to view the Bottom track near the Center of the screen. Not move the track itself, but the view upwards. It fights this, presumably there's some kind of logic that tries to minimize empty space at the bottom of the project.

Certain vertical zooms can sort of "nudge it upwards" but the moment you use the hand tool the entire screen launches itself downwards erratically.

As others have mentioned (there's a whole thread on this actually, lemme find...) the "fix" has been to pad the bottom of the project with like 20-30 tracks, so you have the freedom to Hand Tool upwards below the last actual track.

Finding this especially problematic with lanes - the view constantly jumping out of sight when moving around.

[schwa]

Originally Posted by ferropop

You just need a screen full of tracks

I was referring to this:
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...55&postcount=4

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by schwa

I was referring to this:
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...55&postcount=4

Oh got it lemme try to recreate.

[daxliniere]

Action list: add join/heal as default synonyms

Perhaps also unsplit, since split is the opposite action.

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by schwa

I was referring to this:
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...55&postcount=4

It might be related to most of the areas being drawn outside the item bounds? It's the only way I could get the right-swipe oddity to happen.

[schwa]

Is it still happening in the latest +dev build?

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by schwa

Is it still happening in the latest +dev build?

Seems ok now!

I came across a new quirk, I'll post in today's dev thread.

[vsthem]

Just poking around with comp lanes this for the first time, and wow! This is great! I was able to make a basic comp pretty quickly and found it fairly intuitive.

One thing I couldn't find: How do you hide your comp lanes once you're finished? Toggling "Show all Takes in Lanes" doesn't seem to effect fixed item lanes. Is this a bug, something that hasn't been implemented yet, or is there another action to do this that I can't find?

Really looking forward to seeing this come together and released!

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by vsthem

Just poking around with comp lanes this for the first time, and wow! This is great! I was able to make a basic comp pretty quickly and found it fairly intuitive.

One thing I couldn't find: How do you hide your comp lanes once you're finished? Toggling "Show all Takes in Lanes" doesn't seem to effect fixed item lanes. Is this a bug, something that hasn't been implemented yet, or is there another action to do this that I can't find?

Really looking forward to seeing this come together and released!

That's not there yet!

[vsthem]

good to know! Thanks for the quick response

[musicbynumbers]

+ Media item lanes: comp areas respect region editing

If this what I think it is than thanks!

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by musicbynumbers

+ Media item lanes: comp areas respect region editing

If this what I think it is than thanks!

It is!

[xpander]

Originally Posted by ovnis

It can be very painfull to do that each time you want to edit your MIDI item inside fixed lanes... Especially guys like me who use often fixed lanes track with lots of lanes and items.

I guess I just don't get the issue as presented earlier? I certainly got mixed responses where people got feature x working with some settings but are back at me about it not working?

You can have several MIDI items on lanes, click one of the items and open/see only that one in MIDI Editor with one editor per track mode. With that in mind, to me the issue of seeing too much in ME seems like a matter of user settings, not that it's not possible to restrict what you see/edit, correct?

But if user wants to see more than just the contents of one item/lane in ME, to differentiate between what lane/items are playing, what is currently editable in ME and what items/notes are muted, there are different colors. Wasn't this specifically asked for earlier, because some users want to see items of all lanes and be able to tell the differences between those different states?

Keep in mind, I was talking about this feature that was mentioned not working:

+ Media item lanes: display non-playing MIDI media items similar to muted items in the MIDI editor

And I was replying to this:

Originally Posted by Skorobagatko

Actually it doesn't work as expected. It displays MIDI items for more then one track, not for just a selected track (MIDI editor per track)
Muted notes should become visible only with one MIDI editor per project setting.

That is a bit different from deciding what all you want to see in ME, which goes back to making settings so that you don't see more than you need. And that selection/setting process must be done anyway, depending on what is needed.

I haven't seen any reasonable explanation yet why current feature of seeing muted notes in ME should be taken away. I for one could welcome more discussions about the new feature of non-playing item colors and possible feature requests of per-lane editor mode...even while this all brings back headaching memories of v4 MIDI chaos.

[sockmonkey72]

Originally Posted by xpander

I guess I just don't get the issue as presented earlier? I certainly got mixed responses where people got feature x working with some settings but are back at me about it not working?

You can have several MIDI items on lanes, click one of the items and open/see only that one in MIDI Editor with one editor per track mode. With that in mind, to me the issue of seeing too much in ME seems like a matter of user settings, not that it's not possible to restrict what you see/edit, correct?

But if user wants to see more than just the contents of one item/lane in ME, to differentiate between what lane/items are playing, what is currently editable in ME and what items/notes are muted, there are different colors. Wasn't this specifically asked for earlier, because some users want to see items of all lanes and be able to tell the differences between those different states?

Keep in mind, I was talking about this feature that was mentioned not working:


And I was replying to this:


That is a bit different from deciding what all you want to see in ME, which goes back to making settings so that you don't see more than you need. And that selection/setting process must be done anyway, depending on what is needed.

I haven't seen any reasonable explanation yet why current feature of seeing muted notes in ME should be taken away. I for one could welcome more discussions about the new feature of non-playing item colors and possible feature requests of per-lane editor mode...even while this all brings back headaching memories of v4 MIDI chaos.

For my part, I don't want anything taken away, I just want it to not be the default behavior, requiring me (or anyone) to have to discover/open the tracks sidebar and manually shut off lane visibility every time I use the ME.

Seeing muted notes in the same item is important and good.

What was being discussed was displaying the events in non-playing lanes as muted events when editing a playing item. Which I also don't need taken away, as long as it can also not work that way without any special intervention when opening the ME.

Which seems to be the case, so I'm happy.

[ovnis]

Originally Posted by xpander

I haven't seen any reasonable explanation yet why current feature of seeing muted notes in ME should be taken away. I for one could welcome more discussions about the new feature of non-playing item colors and possible feature requests of per-lane editor mode...even while this all brings back headaching memories of v4 MIDI chaos.

Why don't you agree with this?

Actually, I think it's not a great idea to display notes of items not clicked as muted because, in fact, when a lane is muted, it's not MIDI notes which are muted.

Plus, if we edit a MIDI item which is on a fixed lane mutes, notes of this item will be muted... It can be confusing.

Moreover, how to know which note is really muted or not?

Why not follow the type of poster there is with "One MIDI editor per project" with darker notes for exemple?

There would be more consistency with the rest.

-------------------------------

You said:

You can have several MIDI items on lanes, click one of the items and open/see only that one in MIDI Editor with one editor per track mode. With that in mind, to me the issue of seeing too much in ME seems like a matter of user settings, not that it's not possible to restrict what you see/edit, correct?

Because when you don't work with the tracks sidebar, you have to open it, click and close it. When you have to do this lots of time, it can be very boring...

Is it no more simple to add a new option like "One midi editor per track and per lane"? Like that, the display is always good for us (people who don't want "one midi editor per project" or more than one MIDI item displayed inside the MIDI editor)!

[xpander]

Originally Posted by ovnis

Why don't you agree with this?

Why I don't agree with taking away a feature that has been in Reaper for ages and been proven helpful? I don't think we are really talking about the same thing here? I was talking about seeing muted notes where there are some, like before. I gather jury is still out on the new possible feature of seeing non-playing items same as muted?

Originally Posted by ovnis

Because when you don't work with the tracks sidebar, you have to open it and click. When you have to do this lots of time, it can be very boring...

Choices, when having to do something. Of course one could also keep the selector open all the time. After that a click or even swipe(!) there is about the same effort than in arrange, but you can also stay within ME and actually get more control over what you see & edit. Personally I see that as a great benefit, not as a boring crutch. YMMV, of course.

Originally Posted by ovnis

Is it no more simple to add a new option like "One midi editor per track and per lane"? Like that, the display is always good for us (people who don't want "one midi editor per project" or more than one MIDI item displayed inside the MIDI editor)!

You can already set MIDI editor to only display one selected/clicked MIDI item and no track selector needed. That's why I currently don't see a reason for a new editor mode option, not without more data to support the request.

How well this is actually working with fixed lanes is yet another thing that I haven't tested fully yet...and my conclusions would still be just mine; there's a lot of us here, so what exact details are wrong, not working, need improvement?

---
For a baseline:

[ovnis]

Originally Posted by xpander

Why I don't agree with taking away a feature that has been in Reaper for ages and been proven helpful? I don't think we are really talking about the same thing here? I was talking about seeing muted notes where there are some, like before. I gather jury is still out on the new possible feature of seeing non-playing items same as muted?

We didn't talk about the same thing, yes. But on the last release, muted notes (notes displayed like that because there a not inside the clicked item) are displayed like regular notes outside the clicked item. Good thing.

Choices, when having to do something. Of course one could also keep the selector open all the time. After that a click or even swipe(!) there is about the same effort than in arrange, but you can also stay within ME and actually get more control over what you see & edit. Personally I see that as a great benefit, not as a boring crutch. YMMV, of course.

Not me. For my own use, i don't like this because the most pasrt of my tracks are not named or with preset name like "Air Sound" so I don't know what is really displayed if I use the selector (I make electro music with lots of synths). I prefer to select my item on the arrangement window. And like that there is more space for the midi notes area.

You can already set MIDI editor to only display one selected/clicked MIDI item and no track selector needed. That's why I currently don't see a reason for a new editor mode option, not without more data to support the request.

I work with heavy projects (with lots of MIDI items). If I use "one MIDI editor for selected item", Reaper will lags much more than if I use per track.


So for reasons of speed and also to keep a clean project (only one midi editing window against sometimes 300 MIDI editor windows/tabs), I prefer to use MIDI editor per track.

[xpander]

Originally Posted by ovnis

Not me. For my own use, i don't like this because the most pasrt of my tracks are not named or with preset name like "Air Sound" so I don't know what is really displayed if I use the selector (I make electro music with lots of synths). I prefer to select my item on the arrangement window. And like that there is more space for the midi notes area.

I can understand that. I usually start MIDI editing by selecting an item in arrange. But from that point on, I often stay inside ME and use track selector for as long as needed. I usually name the tracks/items right away, so obviously selecting them is easier for me in there.

But I work with one monitor and do usually have part of Arrange also visible all the time, as well as the track selector in ME. All that limits quite a lot what all I can see, but I'm used to scrolling and zoom actions to go around the arrangement and editor.

Originally Posted by ovnis

I work with heavy projects (with lots of MIDI items). If I use "one MIDI editor for selected item", Reaper will lags much more than if I use per track.

I only use one editor per project, so don't really know about lag in other modes. However, in the example above I was using one editor per track, trying to demonstrate how it is possible to click open and see just one item in editor and no track selector needed.

That's possible when in Behavior for open items in built-in MIDI editor, Open the clicked MIDI item only is selected. You could also have that option or Open all selected MIDI items chosen, select items on one lane and run the Open in built-in MIDI editor action, and only those selected items open/are visible in editor.

But there's a catch there. If you select items across several fixed lanes and run that action, you'll see also those in editor. Same happens when you have selected the option Open all MIDI items on the same track as the clicked item, but in that case just selecting/clicking on one item will do it.

For me personally, knowing that fixed lanes belong to specific tracks, this makes sense in one editor per track mode. But that will also mean that if I don't want to see the contents of all lanes, I must be careful with the settings and how I do open the given items.

[ovnis]

Originally Posted by xpander

I only use one editor per project, so don't really know about lag in other modes. However, in the example above I was using one editor per track, trying to demonstrate how it is possible to click open and see just one item in editor and no track selector needed.

That's possible when in Behavior for open items in built-in MIDI editor, Open the clicked MIDI item only is selected. You could also have that option or Open all selected MIDI items chosen, select items on one lane and run the Open in built-in MIDI editor action, and only those selected items open/are visible in editor.

But there's a catch there. If you select items across several fixed lanes and run that action, you'll see also those in editor. Same happens when you have selected the option Open all MIDI items on the same track as the clicked item, but in that case just selecting/clicking on one item will do it.

For me personally, knowing that fixed lanes belong to specific tracks, this makes sense in one editor per track mode. But that will also mean that if I don't want to see the contents of all lanes, I must be careful with the settings and how I do open the given items.

The issue is: I want to see items which are on the right and on the left side of the clicked item...


But not above or below.

[xpander]

Originally Posted by ovnis

The issue is: I want to see items which are on the right and on the left side of the clicked item...
But not above or below.

I get it, you want to see only items of one lane in one editor per track mode. And that is currently possible.

Behavior for "open items in built-in MIDI editor" > Open all selected MIDI items. (MIDI Editor settings)

In arrange, select items of one lane and then double click one of the items to open all of them in the MIDI editor. You can even keep the editor open and in arrange select items from other lane and do the same, contents of the MIDI editor are changed accordingly. Or select/double click just one item on any lane and that is shown in ME.

Is this not working on your end?

---
edit: oh, I see where this goes wrong.

If you have items open in ME from one lane, then change the selection in arrange to other lane (but don't have that lane active [playing]) and double click one of the selected items, only the double clicked item is visible normally, other items(notes) look like they are muted. Changing the active lane in arrange to the same lane seems to correct this.
Doesn't happen when Play all lanes is selected, or all lanes are selected manually.



---
edit2:
Thinking this a little, there could be couple of ways of doing per lane editing in ME like shown above...and not getting troubled with muted colors.
1) Item selection overruling the non-playing state. But in essence this could take away the benefit of clearly identifying the non-playing items in ME.
2) Users themselves setting the playing state of lane where they want to edit the items.