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Old 07-13-2019, 01:46 AM   #3361
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
I think for this to work, it will have to be done at the Reaper level using its Rename FX facility (right click on plugin in browser) You probably won't need to to do anything in CSI, it should 'just work' like the renames assigned to plugins in an FX chain do.
Would an alias definition in the FX map not be more cohesive. If that's actually possible.

Last edited by Freex; 07-13-2019 at 03:19 AM.
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Old 07-13-2019, 04:06 AM   #3362
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Would an alias definition in the FX map not be more cohesive. If that's actually possible.
It certainly is possible (we already have it for the parameters themselves), it will be in a future build -- @MixMonkey may be right that "it will have to be done at the Reaper level using its Rename FX facility" but I'm still adding it just for consistency with the rest of the FX Zone file format, if nothing else
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Old 07-13-2019, 06:10 AM   #3363
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
It certainly is possible (we already have it for the parameters themselves), it will be in a future build -- @MixMonkey may be right that "it will have to be done at the Reaper level using its Rename FX facility" but I'm still adding it just for consistency with the rest of the FX Zone file format, if nothing else
It would be great if it could be done like the FX parameter's alias.

My thinking was that at the point you see FX1-8 on the display (C4 or MCU etc) you haven't activated the Zone for any of the FX, so how can it pull up an alias from the definition?
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Old 07-13-2019, 06:38 AM   #3364
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
It would be great if it could be done like the FX parameter's alias.

My thinking was that at the point you see FX1-8 on the display (C4 or MCU etc) you haven't activated the Zone for any of the FX, so how can it pull up an alias from the definition?
Ah, that's because it's an implementation detail

You think of the definitions being hauled in from disk as needed, but in reality they are all preloaded.

So, when we construct a Zone instance from a .zon file, it's easy to add an alias, jut one extra file parse statement
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Old 07-13-2019, 06:42 AM   #3365
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Ah, that's because it's an implementation detail

You think of the definitions being hauled in from disk as needed, but in reality they are all preloaded.

So, when we construct a Zone instance from a .zon file, it's easy to add an alias, jut one extra file parse statement
Great just gets better and better!
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Old 07-13-2019, 10:37 AM   #3366
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Maybe install this: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/11712/WaddMCUC4.zip and see what happens...
I don't know how to use it, I can get the ProX surface to work, I can get C4 function buttons to toggle, but not sure how to use the C4 for fx or anything. Any quick tips?
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Old 07-13-2019, 11:00 AM   #3367
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I don't know how to use it, I can get the ProX surface to work, I can get C4 function buttons to toggle, but not sure how to use the C4 for fx or anything. Any quick tips?
Here's an ancient video, unfortunately nothing on FX, I think you select a Channel with ReaEQ (I'm sure there is a map for that FX) on the track and hit the FX button.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjJ8e4-p_y4
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Old 07-13-2019, 11:38 AM   #3368
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I don't know how to use it, I can get the ProX surface to work, I can get C4 function buttons to toggle, but not sure how to use the C4 for fx or anything. Any quick tips?
Use this C4FXParams.ini EDIT: put it in a folder called C4FX in the Reaper folder (in AppData)

Code:
-- if you uncomment the  + on the next line the mode will switch from FX to +16 ----
-+
---------------- ReaEQ -------------------------------
FX|VST: ReaEQ (Cockos)|3
S2|Bypass|ReaEQ|0
SW|ShowWindow|"|0
SR|Freq-Low Shelf| Freq |1
FP|Gain-Low Shelf| Gain |9
BW|Q-Low Shelf|17
SR|Freq-Band 2| Freq |2
FP|Gain-Band 2| Gain |10
BW|Q-Band 2|  Q  |18
SR|Freq-Band 3| Freq |3
FP|Gain-Band 3| Gain |11
BW|Q-Band 3|  Q  |19
SR|Freq-High Shelf| Freq |4
FP|Gain-High Shelf| Gain |12
BW|Q-High Shelf|20
Cockos changed the parameter names at some point in the last 7 years, so Geoff's original file doesn't work anymore.

Make sure Lock is lit on C4, otherwise the parameters won't appear. Select a track with ReaEQ on it and you should see the params appear on rows A,B and C. Marker shows/hides the FX window.

Last edited by MixMonkey; 07-13-2019 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 07-13-2019, 12:25 PM   #3369
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The only thing I have been able to get working so far is the Marker button to toggle the plugin window. Seems to be intermittent, though. What's that mean?

The Lock and function button lights toggle on and off also, but I don't know what they do.
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Old 07-13-2019, 12:34 PM   #3370
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Originally Posted by poetnprophet View Post
The only thing I have been able to get working so far is the Marker button to toggle the plugin window. Seems to be intermittent, though. What's that mean?

The Lock and function button lights toggle on and off also, but I don't know what they do.
The Lock button has to be lit for the C4 to display the FX parameters, no idea about Function though.

Did you try the C4FXParams.ini I posted? is it in the right place? Working here with ReaEQ.
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Old 07-13-2019, 12:57 PM   #3371
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The only thing I have been able to get working so far is the Marker button to toggle the plugin window. Seems to be intermittent, though. What's that mean?.
Did you get a chance to test with another equivalent power supply as per @MixMonkey's suggestion -- flakey displays, intermittent buttons... power supply sure is a good place to start -- make absolutely sure voltage and polarity are correct before trying this at home
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Old 07-14-2019, 02:41 PM   #3372
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Control surface display update frequency: default 15 Hz.

FYI super boffin (I love that word ) project update:

The architecture is sufficiently flexible for this iteration.

Now to devote some time to performance/reliability.

You may recall some problems with stale track pointers a while back.

That's because the easy/low resource way to do things is to only rebuild the CSI track cache when things change.

That's been fine up to now, but now we need to take it up a notch.

Using my late 2012 mac mini (2.3GHz quad i7) as a test machine and the 1420 track stress test project it was determined that it took about a millisecond to rebuild the whole track list.

That means we can take a brute force/very robust approach.

Remember that number from the beginning of the post -- 15 Hz ?

That's how often CSI gets called to update its world -- that means we can rebuild the entire track list 15 times a second and use only 15 msec total on a 1420 track project !

This means inserting/deleting/moving tracks, etc., is as quick as Reaper, and no more stale track pointers, because we are constantly dynamically updating.

One of those rare times when you get speed AND robustness together

This is working here currently.

The next step is to do the same thing to FX and Sends -- make them entirely dynamic, like tracks are now.

That means an opportunity to improve things.

MapSelectedTrackFXToWidgets and MapFocusedTrackFXToWidgets will now be on a surface by surface basis, so you can mix and match a lot more easily.

Sends will then follow in the dynamic footsteps.

I like the current way we can dedicate a block 1-4, 1-8, etc., but will probably add banking within that block if there are more Sends than can fit...

You can still spill mappings outside of one surface using ZoneLink.

Just a bit of a progress report, any thoughts/suggestions, etc., always more than welcomed
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Last edited by Geoff Waddington; 07-14-2019 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 07-14-2019, 06:47 PM   #3373
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One of those rare times when you get speed AND robustness together
That all sounds pretty comprehensive (well the bits I understood anyway) Is there a significant increase in CPU use to achieve it?

Banking on the sends sounds good (although I don't think I've used more than 8 sends ever, but who knows what workflows are around the corner) Just a reminder for blanking/zeroing on unused sends if poss

Been mulling over the FX/Zone thing a bit now that the stack is no more and thinking about what Freex was saying about taking over only part of the C4 surface and then returning to the original splay.

Now, we have the tools to do this at the moment with GoZone but I was wondering if we could finesse it a bit.

Say my initial FX Zone covers the entire C4, A1-D8. I've set up another Zone that only uses B1-B8. Now when I call that Zone only B1-B8 will change, the rest of the C4 will stay as it was originally because it hasn't been overwritten.

When I want to return B1-B8 to their original state, I have to call the entire A1-D8 Zone, even though only B1-B8 need changing, with the corresponding wait for the whole surface to load.

I was wondering if it was possible to make the initial Zone more granular, say break it down into the 4 rows (for the sake of argument), A,B.C and D. That way to return from my second B1-B8 zone all I need to do is call row B. Rows A,C and D haven't been changed by calling the second Zone, so don't need resetting.

I struck me that all that is needed to make this work is for the initial activator to be able to call (simultaneously) several Zones to populate the surface, instead of just one. So I break my current big FX Zone into several smaller Zones (depending how I want to carve up the surface) and the initial activator calls all of them together.

Then when I want to change just a bit of the surface, I can do that as I do now with GoZone and when I want to restore the original I can just GoZone to restore only the bit I've changed of the original activation.
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Old 07-15-2019, 01:53 AM   #3374
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That all sounds pretty comprehensive (well the bits I understood anyway) Is there a significant increase in CPU use to achieve it?

Banking on the sends sounds good (although I don't think I've used more than 8 sends ever, but who knows what workflows are around the corner) Just a reminder for blanking/zeroing on unused sends if poss

Been mulling over the FX/Zone thing a bit now that the stack is no more and thinking about what Freex was saying about taking over only part of the C4 surface and then returning to the original splay.

Now, we have the tools to do this at the moment with GoZone but I was wondering if we could finesse it a bit.

Say my initial FX Zone covers the entire C4, A1-D8. I've set up another Zone that only uses B1-B8. Now when I call that Zone only B1-B8 will change, the rest of the C4 will stay as it was originally because it hasn't been overwritten.

When I want to return B1-B8 to their original state, I have to call the entire A1-D8 Zone, even though only B1-B8 need changing, with the corresponding wait for the whole surface to load.

I was wondering if it was possible to make the initial Zone more granular, say break it down into the 4 rows (for the sake of argument), A,B.C and D. That way to return from my second B1-B8 zone all I need to do is call row B. Rows A,C and D haven't been changed by calling the second Zone, so don't need resetting.

I struck me that all that is needed to make this work is for the initial activator to be able to call (simultaneously) several Zones to populate the surface, instead of just one. So I break my current big FX Zone into several smaller Zones (depending how I want to carve up the surface) and the initial activator calls all of them together.

Then when I want to change just a bit of the surface, I can do that as I do now with GoZone and when I want to restore the original I can just GoZone to restore only the bit I've changed of the original activation.
I think you can already do that a couple of ways:

Code:
zoneActivationButton GoneZone A
zoneActivationButton GoneZone B
zoneActivationButton GoneZone C
zoneActivationButton GoneZone D
or

Code:
Zone RowA
...
ZoneEnd

Zone RowB
...
ZoneEnd

Zone RowC
...
ZoneEnd

Zone RowD
...
ZoneEnd


Zone AllRows
        IncludedZones
            ZoneA
            ZoneB
            ZoneC
            ZoneD
        IncludedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd
and just call the pieces as necessary.
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Old 07-15-2019, 06:33 AM   #3375
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
I think you can already do that a couple of ways:

Code:
zoneActivationButton GoneZone A
zoneActivationButton GoneZone B
zoneActivationButton GoneZone C
zoneActivationButton GoneZone D
or

Code:
Zone RowA
...
ZoneEnd

Zone RowB
...
ZoneEnd

Zone RowC
...
ZoneEnd

Zone RowD
...
ZoneEnd


Zone AllRows
        IncludedZones
            ZoneA
            ZoneB
            ZoneC
            ZoneD
        IncludedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd
and just call the pieces as necessary.
Thanks Geoff, the IncludedZones solution looks to be what I need

Incidentally, as a general rule, can a button be assigned to do two things simultaneously, like activate a Zone and toggle an FX parameter?

Any ETA on the new build?, itchin' to get me hands on these new features
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Old 07-15-2019, 07:53 AM   #3376
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Thanks Geoff, the IncludedZones solution looks to be what I need
Cool, they are available in the build you have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
TIncidentally, as a general rule, can a button be assigned to do two things simultaneously, like activate a Zone and toggle an FX parameter?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
TAny ETA on the new build?, itchin' to get me hands on these new features
You likely will not see much difference (NoAction should blank displays -- simple fixes like that), just better performance, no crashes.

The biggie is SelectedTrack now works on a per surface basis.

ETA ? Hopefully end of week for something primitive
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Old 07-15-2019, 07:57 AM   #3377
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ETA ? Hopefully end of week for something primitive
Great Looking forward to playing around with Zones without upsetting the Stack
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Old 07-15-2019, 09:52 AM   #3378
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Did you get a chance to test with another equivalent power supply as per @MixMonkey's suggestion -- flakey displays, intermittent buttons... power supply sure is a good place to start -- make absolutely sure voltage and polarity are correct before trying this at home
I didn't get to test any further, sorry. Was just too busy, but thanks for the ideas everyone. I'll get at it again another time.
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Old 07-16-2019, 03:17 PM   #3379
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Default Artist Mix Behavior

Hey I'm using an Artist Mix with Reaper and wanted to switch from the Eucon script to CSI since the touch automation with Eucon seems to be skipping and only works if I touch the fader left of the one that I want to automate.

Everything seems to be working fine with CSI, but when I press play all the faders move to the center position. This happens only on the surface. The fader positions in Reaper remain the same until I move one of the faders (then it snaps to that position)

Any idea what I could try to fix this?
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Old 07-16-2019, 05:35 PM   #3380
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Hey I'm using an Artist Mix with Reaper and wanted to switch from the Eucon script to CSI since the touch automation with Eucon seems to be skipping and only works if I touch the fader left of the one that I want to automate.

Everything seems to be working fine with CSI, but when I press play all the faders move to the center position. This happens only on the surface. The fader positions in Reaper remain the same until I move one of the faders (then it snaps to that position)

Any idea what I could try to fix this?
If you move a Fader with the mouse, does the fader move on the surface ?

If not, sounds like you might have the midi out set incorrectly in the Config panel.
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Old 07-17-2019, 02:12 AM   #3381
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Yes when I move the fader with my mouse the surface snaps to that position.

Also when I load a project all the faders are in the correct position. Only after I press play all the faders move to the center position.
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Old 07-17-2019, 03:51 AM   #3382
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Yes when I move the fader with my mouse the surface snaps to that position.

Also when I load a project all the faders are in the correct position. Only after I press play all the faders move to the center position.
Hmmm...

Just tried it here on an Artist Mix and it worked fine, seems like some kind of config thing...
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Old 07-17-2019, 12:27 PM   #3383
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Yes when I move the fader with my mouse the surface snaps to that position.

Also when I load a project all the faders are in the correct position. Only after I press play all the faders move to the center position.
Have you any other controller still active in reaper, or the midi ports for your AM active?
Maybe it's a conflict there.
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Old 07-17-2019, 05:27 PM   #3384
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CAUTION CAUTION CAUTION CAUTION CAUTION

New build is up.

The internals for Zones, Tracks, FX, and Sends have been completely rewritten, so I expect bugs.

If you want to try this, make sure you keep your old dll/dylib.

Zones are now stack free, there is only GoZone.

You should now be able to use NoAction for meters, displays etc.

You should be able to insert, delete, re-order, etc., mapped Tracks, FX, and Sends, and the system should just adjust, no surprises or crashes -- well anyway, that's the plan
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Old 07-18-2019, 12:52 AM   #3385
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Geoff, when do you think this will go to beta?
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Old 07-18-2019, 02:54 AM   #3386
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Geoff, when do you think this will go to beta?
Good queation.

From some source (unknown):
>>>>>>>>
Alpha Release - This is the release when the feature which you are developing is incomplete or partially complete. Suppose in a Ticket booking system you have developed the seat selection but the payment implementation is remaining. In this case you can release it to testers to test the initial phase of feature. Lot of Open source products do their Alpha release.

Beta Release - This release is done when the product feature is complete and all the development is done but there are possibilities that it could contain some bugs and performance issues.This release mostly done to users who test the product and who can report the bugs. Even UAT phase could be considered as Beta release.
>>>>>>>>

So, I would say we go alpha once Folders and OSC are added.

Then everyone should jump in with particular feature requests for their dream workflow

Then, somewhat arbitrarily, we'll make the call to go beta.

The good news is the beta will be short, as we've been building in stability along the way.

Beta really means, it's complete -- we think -- programmer's famous last words -- hammer away at it, see if you can break it.

Well, we've been doing that all along, especially some great dedicated testers -- thanks folks !!

So, easy question too ask, a bit more tricky to answer
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Old 07-18-2019, 04:52 AM   #3387
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CAUTION CAUTION CAUTION CAUTION CAUTION

New build is up.

The internals for Zones, Tracks, FX, and Sends have been completely rewritten, so I expect bugs.
Thanks for posting the new build Here's an initial list of bugs:

i) Channel Pan changes both Pan and Width simultaneously, toggle push no longer works.

ii) ToggleMapSends: Sends appear on display but controls do nothing on either C4 or MCU.

iii) ToggleMapSends: Surfaces can't be separated by unchecking Sync Zones Across Surfaces. Activating the sends on one surface activates them on all.

iv) ToggleMapSends: Blanking/Zeroing unused sends only affects the upper display and fader. Lower display and pan remain unblanked/unzeroed.

v) ToggleMapSends: Sends no longer toggle off on C4 display. The upper and lower displays stay on sends until overwritten by FX parameters (from a different channel, simply re-focussing the current plugin doesn't work). MCU toggles correctly as before, flipping between channel and sends.

vi) OnFXFocus MapFocusedTrackFXToWidgets: Previously, when an FX window was closed/un-focussed, the C4 would blank/zero. Now the upper display is left displaying FX parameters (lower display and controls blank/zero as before)

vii) OnFXFocus MapFocusedTrackFXToWidgets: Lower display no longer displays correct parameter values for FX, showing either OFF or ON instead (and this seems to be tied to some random control on the surface, varying from plugin to plugin). The controls are unaffected and work normally.

NoAction now blanks displays Thanks.
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Old 07-18-2019, 07:26 AM   #3388
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Thanks for posting the new build Here's an initial list of bugs:

i) Channel Pan changes both Pan and Width simultaneously, toggle push no longer works.

ii) ToggleMapSends: Sends appear on display but controls do nothing on either C4 or MCU.

iii) ToggleMapSends: Surfaces can't be separated by unchecking Sync Zones Across Surfaces. Activating the sends on one surface activates them on all.

iv) ToggleMapSends: Blanking/Zeroing unused sends only affects the upper display and fader. Lower display and pan remain unblanked/unzeroed.

v) ToggleMapSends: Sends no longer toggle off on C4 display. The upper and lower displays stay on sends until overwritten by FX parameters (from a different channel, simply re-focussing the current plugin doesn't work). MCU toggles correctly as before, flipping between channel and sends.

vi) OnFXFocus MapFocusedTrackFXToWidgets: Previously, when an FX window was closed/un-focussed, the C4 would blank/zero. Now the upper display is left displaying FX parameters (lower display and controls blank/zero as before)

vii) OnFXFocus MapFocusedTrackFXToWidgets: Lower display no longer displays correct parameter values for FX, showing either OFF or ON instead (and this seems to be tied to some random control on the surface, varying from plugin to plugin). The controls are unaffected and work normally.

NoAction now blanks displays Thanks.
Well, I did say there would be bugs

Seriously, many thanks from me and the community for your testing.

Haven't implemented the new Pan/Width using Zones approach, just remove one of the entries (and all that PanWidthCycle stuff) -- right now you have an example of one Widget (Rotary) controlling 2 things

Yeah, Sends and FXFocus were the least developed, will check into those bugs.

Could I also ask you and others to beat on Tracks and MapSelectedTrackFXToWidgets, you should be able to delete, add, move, etc., with no problems.

If that checks out OK, I will apply the design that is now used for Tracks and MapSelectedTrackFXToWidgets to OnFocusedFX and Sends -- they are only half-converted right now, as you can readily see
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Old 07-19-2019, 05:05 AM   #3389
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Could I also ask you and others to beat on Tracks and MapSelectedTrackFXToWidgets, you should be able to delete, add, move, etc., with no problems.
All seems to be solid here. Moving, deleting and adding are all picked up quickly with no crashes.

One thing that's got messed up is the scrolling of the mixer window to reflect the surface and vice-versa. If I select a track on the screen, the surface will bank, but where the selected track ends up is anybody's guess

If I select a channel on the surface that's outside what can be seen in the on-screen mixer, the on-screen mixer doesn't scroll anymore.

I have some ideas about scrolling, probably for another time.

MapSelectedTrackFXToWidgets is working nicely now (but values display messed up, like OnFocus)

Could you implement that FX menu we discussed? (show FX1-8 names across C4 top row or MCU display, and when selection is made, splay that FX's parameters across surface)

I think if you did this you could forget about OnFocusFX. Plus it would be much more in keeping with the rest of CSI as it targets the selected track (and you don't have to have the FX window open if you don't want it to ) AND there would only be one type of entry in the FX .zon file (SelectedTrackNavigator) instead of two.

I would definitely dump OnFocusFX in favour of this.

Last edited by MixMonkey; 07-19-2019 at 05:41 AM. Reason: sp
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Old 07-19-2019, 05:56 AM   #3390
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Just found one rather disappoining thing about SelectedTrackNavigator/MapSelectedTrackFXToWidgets.

When you use this method to splay parameters onto the C4, you can't access any Zones apart from the first one. So GoZone doesn't work with this method to access more parameters
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Old 07-19-2019, 11:40 AM   #3391
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All seems to be solid here. Moving, deleting and adding are all picked up quickly with no crashes.

One thing that's got messed up is the scrolling of the mixer window to reflect the surface and vice-versa. If I select a track on the screen, the surface will bank, but where the selected track ends up is anybody's guess

If I select a channel on the surface that's outside what can be seen in the on-screen mixer, the on-screen mixer doesn't scroll anymore.

I have some ideas about scrolling, probably for another time.
Hmmm... I think that time is now

Seriously, the Track/Folder architecture is solid, we can now start adding features "for real".

Any thoughts from you and anyone else more than welcomed.

We now have the opportunity to make this the best Track/Folder navigation possible.



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MapSelectedTrackFXToWidgets is working nicely now (but values display messed up, like OnFocus)

Could you implement that FX menu we discussed? (show FX1-8 names across C4 top row or MCU display, and when selection is made, splay that FX's parameters across surface)

I think if you did this you could forget about OnFocusFX. Plus it would be much more in keeping with the rest of CSI as it targets the selected track (and you don't have to have the FX window open if you don't want it to ) AND there would only be one type of entry in the FX .zon file (SelectedTrackNavigator) instead of two.

I would definitely dump OnFocusFX in favour of this.
Good plan.

However it wlll only work well for the C4 style units.

The Console 1 has no display, and many of the C4-like units lack displays as well.

Still a great idea for C4 users, so yup, will do that one !
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Old 07-19-2019, 11:42 AM   #3392
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Just found one rather disappoining thing about SelectedTrackNavigator/MapSelectedTrackFXToWidgets.

When you use this method to splay parameters onto the C4, you can't access any Zones apart from the first one. So GoZone doesn't work with this method to access more parameters
Yeah, just caught this one myself

Zones need a rework, not quite there yet, please revert to previous for now.
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Old 07-19-2019, 12:37 PM   #3393
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However it wlll only work well for the C4 style units.

The Console 1 has no display, and many of the C4-like units lack displays as well.
True, but the main unit in all of these setups (MCU, FP8 etc) has 8 rotaries with push and 8 two line displays. The navigation proposed will work just as well for them- a slightly larger user base than C4 users

I've been experimenting with some much more complex Zone arrangements on the C4, fitting parameter groups into a 1x8 block, a 3x3 block and a 3x5 block (the FX is a soft synth) The zone setup in the new version works a treat (notwithstanding the value display)

I use the 3x5 block for envelopes and the 3x3 block for, variously, oscillators, filter and amplifier. The 1x8 block (row A) is sometimes a master menu, sometimes LFOs.

It's easy to build simple menus to navigate parameters in any of the blocks and the blocks don't interfere with each other. Widgets are only overwritten when you intend them to be. I chopped the enormous list of parameters up into logical chunks and made a separate .zon for each one.

When the plugin is initially focussed, it loads a 'startup' configuration of Zones using an IncludedZones construct. After that all the navigation is done using GoZone.

Even if you only had a 1x8 block to work with(an MCU or FP8, say) you could still easily cover many FX parameters, navigating the Zones with either surface buttons or Presses.

I'm afraid none of this works properly in the old version (the stack, I guess). If you could just fix the value display, that'd be great (OnFocusFX is working fine)

Really excited by the way the whole Zone thing can work now. Loads of possibilities.
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Old 07-19-2019, 12:57 PM   #3394
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Hmmm...

Just had a thought, could maybe work...

Here's the geeky details...

There seems to be no easy way around it, we need something like a Zone stack, but as everyone knows building one that works ain't so easy

We still have an Active Zones List.

Each Widget will also have its own activation stack -- an item consisting of the Action and the Zone that activated it.

Let's use a C4 example:

So first A1-D8 are blank -- probably a good idea to set up a Home Zone for the C4 to do this using NoAction.

So let's get into the internals and look at an individual widget activation stack after initialization:
Code:
NoAction Home
Map an FX and it becomes:

Code:
NoAction Home
anFXParam FXZoneName
Now map Sends:

Code:
NoAction Home
anFXParam FXZoneName
aSendParam SendZoneName
When we say Deactivate SendZoneName -- we remove SendZoneName from the Active Zones List.

As part of Deactivate Zone internals, we also say to each individual Widget GoPrevious.

This simply backs up the list a la:

Code:
NoAction Home
anFXParam FXZoneName
Now here is the key difference.

Instead of blindly going back to anFXParam, we check to to if FXZoneName is still Active, and if not, we back up again, and also remove the dead FXZoneName entry.

However if we Deactivated FXZoneName from this:

Code:
NoAction Home
anFXParam FXZoneName
aSendParam SendZoneName
We would do nothing to the Widget -- it is at this moment mapped to aSendParam SendZoneName.

If we then Deactivate SendZoneName, we will go back, find FXZoneName has disappeared, and back upon one more to Home.

Just thinking out loud...
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Old 07-19-2019, 01:02 PM   #3395
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True, but the main unit in all of these setups (MCU, FP8 etc) has 8 rotaries with push and 8 two line displays. The navigation proposed will work just as well for them- a slightly larger user base than C4 users
Faerport 8 and 16 have only one Rotary, it works on selected Channel.

A lot of other modern MCU clones cheap out this way

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I've been experimenting with some much more complex Zone arrangements on the C4, fitting parameter groups into a 1x8 block, a 3x3 block and a 3x5 block (the FX is a soft synth) The zone setup in the new version works a treat (notwithstanding the value display)

I use the 3x5 block for envelopes and the 3x3 block for, variously, oscillators, filter and amplifier. The 1x8 block (row A) is sometimes a master menu, sometimes LFOs.

It's easy to build simple menus to navigate parameters in any of the blocks and the blocks don't interfere with each other. Widgets are only overwritten when you intend them to be. I chopped the enormous list of parameters up into logical chunks and made a separate .zon for each one.

When the plugin is initially focussed, it loads a 'startup' configuration of Zones using an IncludedZones construct. After that all the navigation is done using GoZone.

Even if you only had a 1x8 block to work with(an MCU or FP8, say) you could still easily cover many FX parameters, navigating the Zones with either surface buttons or Presses.

I'm afraid none of this works properly in the old version (the stack, I guess). If you could just fix the value display, that'd be great (OnFocusFX is working fine)

Really excited by the way the whole Zone thing can work now. Loads of possibilities.
Great stuff !!

We just crossposted, have a look at that post too.
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Old 07-19-2019, 01:43 PM   #3396
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Faerport 8 and 16 have only one Rotary, it works on selected Channel.

A lot of other modern MCU clones cheap out this way
My bad, that really is cheap. So to pan, you have to select a channel, select pan and turn the knob? sheesh. Maybe they can use the faders instead for FX, like sends.

Quote:
There seems to be no easy way around it, we need something like a Zone stack
Please excuse my blinding ignorance, but why?

I can see that it's nice if you push the ToggleMapSends button a second time that the previously mapped widgets return, but why is that any different to pushing GoZone or re-focussing an FX and restoring things that way.
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Old 07-19-2019, 02:18 PM   #3397
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My bad, that really is cheap. So to pan, you have to select a channel, select pan and turn the knob? sheesh.
Yup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Please excuse my blinding ignorance, but why?

I can see that it's nice if you push the ToggleMapSends button a second time that the previously mapped widgets return, but why is that any different to pushing GoZone or re-focussing an FX and restoring things that way.
For the "re-focussing an FX" use case you describe, there is no difference.

But, consider this:

Q) For the GoZone use case, what Zone do you want to go to?
A) The Zone that was previously activated

Ahh, the answer is variable, you can't put it in a .zon file, it's whatever previous Zone was activated.

I admit "we need something like a Zone stack" is over the top , but it would sure be handy if it can be made to work
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Old 07-19-2019, 02:28 PM   #3398
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Q) For the GoZone use case, what Zone do you want to go to?
A) The Zone that was previously activated

Ahh, the answer is variable, you can't put it in a .zon file, it's whatever previous Zone was activated.
This is the bit I don't get

If I look down at the surface and it's showing the sends, but I want channel faders, I push GoZone Home. I don't need CSI to 'remember' what was there before, because I can.
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Old 07-19-2019, 02:44 PM   #3399
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This is the bit I don't get

If I look down at the surface and it's showing the sends, but I want channel faders, I push GoZone Home. I don't need CSI to 'remember' what was there before, because I can.
What if, instead of wanting Channel Faders (Home -- that's easy -- it's a constant that can be included in the .zon file), you wanted whatever FX that was mapped before you pressed Sends (that is variable -- it cannot be put in a .zon file).

This becomes more important the smaller you setup is -- you will be forced to map everything to one set of Widgets (e.g. One MCU only setup - everything gets to use the rotaries, etc.)
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Old 07-19-2019, 03:01 PM   #3400
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Logged after several years just to say thanks to Geoff and all people involved in this crazy little "framework".
You just make me will to buy a control surface.
I recently tested Lemur and Touch OSC and went nuts. Being able to touch is another world... also the beauty of a display with all the infos let you forget you don't have real faders.
But with CSI you can have the best of both worlds, so really thanks again for developing this.
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